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Possible Major Soul Calibur Tier Revisions

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Dragonmasterxyz

Dragonmasterxyz

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So this was something that started like last year in like October and we never got enough input so here we are again with a highlight. This time, these revisions are huge although I am fairly neutral on everything as I don't particularly trust myself with evaluating this stuff so input from the outside would be great.

Feat Discussion Thread (it maybe useful to go through this): https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3570785

Inferno Creates Chaos
So we all know about the Chaos stage from the first Soulcalibur. Here is the creation feat https://youtu.be/_usxB4rOM6c (And by creation feat, I mean he warps you to a world of his creation)

As you can see, Chaos seems to have what looks to be stars in the background and possibly a Homunculus Nebula. I would say that this would be cause for Astral Chaos being at least a 4-A sized realm.

An extra detail regarding Astral Chaos is that it is noted to eventually "consume the world".

Edge Master
Speed
Now this is something that I wonder for fighting games. Do we in fact take gameplay as a way to guage feats here for say dodging lightning? If so, thanks to Executor N0 we have two lightning dodging feats that give the Soul Calibur cast a huge upgrade in speed. Characters in SC are able to react to lightning with quite a few of their attacks and this lighting seems to come from the sky so this could in fact be legitimate. So here are two feats.

One MHS Calc https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Executor_N0/Another_Soul_Calibur_III_Lightning_feat

And one MHS+ Calc https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Executor_N0/Soul_Calibur_III_Yoshimitsu_Lightning

If accepted we can decide how to scale this at the end of the thread or create another thread for scaling these feats as my main thing with this is seeing what's accepted and what isn't.

Conclusion
So basically, the possible changes are;

AP: 4-A for God Tiers at least.

Speed: Massively Hypersonic or Massively Hypersonic+

If I missed a few details let me know as it was pretty hard going through the old thread as everything was kind of scattered and trying to organize it all.
 
As far as I understand, that should be permissible for an speed upgrade, though it would depend if there are any potential anti-feats which would be hard to know across... what was it, 4-5 games?

I do agree with this so far though, as long as the calc is considered acceptable.
 
Regarding using speed in a fighting game, this is only reserved for in game story and fights that occurred canonically..

For example, Raiden (Mortal Kombat) is a literal lightning god who uses Lightning in almost all of his attacks, however despite the fact that he can fight everyone, only those directly comparable to him scale to his speed.

I can agree with AP but I need more context on speed.
 
I'm 90% sure we can use gameplay for feats, most notable example I can think of are the Relativistic and Massively FTL ratings for various Zelda characters which all come from gameplay, don't see why Soul Calibur would be different. Anyways, I also agree with this.
 
We can and do use gameplay, but fighting games are not like normal games. You can beat people you don't compare to at all, hence lore to see who has fought who and not been absolutely massacred.

To make clear what I mean, you can react and perfectly block Jiren's strikes as Krillin in FighterZ.

So looking up what is the source of the lightning and some added context is for the best.
 
Every character is comparable or above Yoshimitsu at least iirc (It's been a while since I've played SC). So they should be able to scale from him. I dunno how Sophitia high up Sophitia is in verse but at very least those that fight her in canon or are objectively above her should scale.
 
After comparing profiles, both Sophitia and Yoshimitsu, they are around the same level at least on the original time line, and while a character above them, Siegfried is listed as MSH, some fighting games has their characters on the same speed tier despite the difference in strength.

So at the very least, Sophitia's feat is really consistent with the lore and gameplay. However, I don't think Yoshimitsu feat is completely out of window.
 
Then order of affairs would be checking if everyone does actually compare to Yoshimitsu, then after that properly scaling the dudes should be okay.
 
Schnee One said:
Regarding using speed in a fighting game, this is only reserved for in game story and fights that occurred canonically..
For example, Raiden (Mortal Kombat) is a literal lightning god who uses Lightning in almost all of his attacks, however despite the fact that he can fight everyone, only those directly comparable to him scale to his speed.

I can agree with AP but I need more context on speed.
Click to expand...
As long as the feats from in-game aren't contradicted in cutscenes/lore, then I believe they can be used.
 
I mean, Massively Hypersonic is actually very consistent in terms of lore and while Soul Calibur characters doesn't directly scale on the same AP they do scale from the same feat albeit in different percentages. For example, an incomplete version of Inferno scales half of this feat: User blog:Mr. Bambu/Soul Calibur Calc: Big Nasty Boom

Also, characters like Kilik needed the help of Xianghua to defeat Incomplete Inferno (even if I believe they deserves to get 7A in my opinion), aren't on the same tier.

Also, this gives Siegfried's lightning a speed stat. Which got MHS even without a Calc to backup.
 
So what else needs to be done here? So far it seems most people agree on the 4-A upgrade, however we need more input on the MHS speed upgrade.
 
Also as a side note, this was mentioned a while back on the Soul Calibur Feat Discussion thread:

"Cassandra's story mode shows that they are split among timelines. Astral Chaos has some weird timeline shenanigans going on. Honestly, we can't say how Astral Chaos effects timelines. At most we can say it can link two timelines together"

If this is the case, it could potentially support Low Multiversal range (or Interdimensional as per the new Cross-Dimensional vs Low Multiversal thread) for Astral Chaos users.
 
My main deal is to make sure these lightning feats are enough to be considered legit because I wasn't 100% sure and as such I wanted some other opinions. I guess I could talk scaling here.

4-A would only scale to the current tier 5 characters, i.e Edge Master, Algol and of course Night Terror.

MHS would likely scale to everyone and MHS+ would be for Top Tiers and up.

This would also scale to the High and Top Tiers of Soul Calibur VI who scale to Cassandra who if I am remembering my facts correctly, fought evenly with Sophitia.
 
I'm still a bit in the defensive on MHS+ on Top Tiers considering that the speed feat comes from a character that doesn't belong on the Top Tiers. However, I think that in case MHS+ is accepted, it should got into everyone in the cast.
 
I meant High tiers lol. Forgot Yoshimitsu is is not a Top Tier. So yeah, Anyone 7-B or up should be MHS.
 
Yeah, MHS should be fair game for anyone 7-B and up. But, I have a question. Is there any other ligthning based attacks in Soul Calibur? An example of Siegfried father's lightning.
 
Siegfried's father's lightning has never really been dodged nor used outside of like one cutscene in SC3.
 
I plan on doing a scaling thread after this. So assuming this all is accepted as legitimate basis for an upgrade, we will move on to scaling elsewhere.
 
So far Multi-Solar System level has been almost unanimously accepted and Massively Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic+ seem to be gaining support. Although I guess we could wait for more staff input.
 
I don't mean to sound like I'm intentionally downgrading the verse but here's a few questions I have to ask

What's the context behind Astral Chaos "eventually consuming the world"? Is that a feat that happens as time passes by or does it happen instantly in the future? If it isn't the latter then I don't think it can be used.

I'm okay with the lightning feat being accepted, but how consistent is the feat with other speed feats in the verse? MHS seems like a massive increase in the verse tbh
 
The main issue with such a high speed upgrade ultimately comes down to one thing.

And its that ONE thing, that severely hurts this.

Within the world of Soul Calibur GUNS are a massive obstacle for pretty much any one.

Mitsurugi literally sought after Soul edge after losing to a Matchlock rifle.

He never really surpasses it in the sense He can outpace bullets or deflect them either.

Hell in the original Soul blade game it literally comes down to how incompetent the wielder of the rifle was in the rematch that saves Mitsurugi's ass.

The dude fires and Mitsurugi happened to be positioned just abit out of the way of the gunshot.

He then runs up to the guy and slays him. (You don't really have time to reload a Matchlock rifle at that distance with no backup)

That and-

Cervantes Pistol sword is EXTREMELY hard to evade for everyone still. You can either duck the shot or pray you side stepped as soon as he's starting to raise the gun and fire.

Otherwise you're getting shot.

Groh is arguably the fastest of the new cast since he pretty much flash-steps/Teleports.

He still struggles dealing with gunfire in gameplay like anyone else.
 
that being said, Soul Calibur 3 Seigfried is> Night terror.

In a perfect run of Siegfried the final boss for him is not Abyss, it is Night Terror.

It pulls him into astral chaos (Could actually be abyss's stage I'm not exactly sure)

And Siegfried says he cannot let that evil out into the world and vows to stop it.
 
Didn't Mitsurugi get to the point where in SC3 and 4 not even the rifles could stop him anymore?

"Mitsurugi longed for an opponent stronger than himself. Even the dreaded rifles that were once his bane, were now no match for his strength."

"Once, Mitsurugi travelled the world so that he might learn how to defeat the rifle. When at last he no longer feared that dreadful weapon, he continued his journey, seeking ever-stronger enemies to challenge. Yet no matter how powerful he became, he hungered for more. Though he desperately cut down foe after foe, they never lit a fire in his cold heart. Mitsurugi was a man turned ogre."

Kinda wanna say that the reason Cerv is so dangerous is mostly cause he's far, far above those rifle fodder guys cause Mitsu lost like wayyyy before SC3 and 4 were a thing.
 
@Ecstacy

That bit about Astral Chaos was just an added detail. Has nothing to do with the 4-A rating. As for the speed. This would be 2 MHS feats compared to the one Supersonic feat we scale to from Soul Calibur 2. And these feats, if accepted (still waiting for confirmation that feat like these are acceptable in the first place), are from later in the series, i.e SC 3.

@Sanguine

Mitsurugi is directly stated to not have any issues with guns. And Cervantes' bullets would scale to the speed here seeing as they have some pyrokinetic properties. Even then, I don't think this would harm it that much.

As for Siegfried scaling to Night Terror, this contradicts him fighting Nightmare evenly in Astral Chaos. His fight with Night Terror is non canon as in canon he and Nightmare fight Abyss together and then fight each other.
 
Stillwinston said:
Didn't Mitsurugi get to the point where in SC3 and 4 not even the rifles could stop him anymore?

"Mitsurugi longed for an opponent stronger than himself. Even the dreaded rifles that were once his bane, were now no match for his strength."


All that says is that he no longer fears the rifle, i mean hell, in the SC3 opening it shows him being forced to use cover to clear the distance and not get shot.

He's moving at average speed and isnt blitzing a thing.
Click to expand...
 
Should probably mention in SC6 Season 2 Mitsu got a move that let's him counter projectiles while in his sheathed stance. I know it's kinda gameplay mechanics but just throwing that out there. Cause as mentioned above Cerv's bullets have the pyrokinetic effects
 
That just sounds like developers not thinking about stuff like that as they usually do. We have two MHS calcs versus a single dude having a hard time with rifles yet apparently far surpassing them later.

Letho also doesn't blitz the guards in the opening cinematic of The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings, despite scaling to MHS+ Geralt.
 
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