Possible Major Soul Calibur Tier Revisions

[KLOL506]

y'all forgetting that geralt ain't the only one with MHS feats. *cough* azar javed *cough* Alzur's thunder *cough*

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Coming from a top tier doesn't matter when Letho blitzes a casual arrow timer and still keeps up with Geralt, yet he doesn't blitz normal soldiers in the opening cutscene.

Again, developer oversight since they don't really focus on that shit.

 

[KLOL506]

Did it happen just once? If so, y'all can ignore it.

 

[SanguineStorms]

I mean Groh literally Teleports and would be the fastest of the known cast because of steed of the night yet no one really struggles to fight him.

Which makes me think even he would not fair well against guns.

And No, Mitsurugi is shown to be on a ship of sorts in three's opening cutting down soldiers.

Then several other soldiers take aim with matchlock rifles to shoot him. He takes cover and moves between shots before racing across the lesser boats and jumping at the small boat they were in performing a leaping cut that slashes part of the boat in half.

They still were shown to be able to have plenty of time to hold up their rifles in a guarding manner before his sword does connect with them.

Which again makes Mitsurugi and chars being MHS seem very odd when regular soldiers have no issue reacting to him even though they do die.

 

[Stillwinston]

Mitsu did block a gunshot in the opening of SC2 iirc, any answer to the move he got in SC6?

 

[SanguineStorms]

Mitsu did block a gunshot in the opening of SC2 iirc, any answer to the move he got in SC6?

Pretty sure the gunshot impacts his armor if its the scene i think youre talking of.

Which move from Soul calibur 6?

The fact he can light his sword on fire or his critical edge?

 

[SanguineStorms]

Also pretty sure the "Lightning" from the sky was just an indication of something being an unlockable attack in the past games outside Sophitia's critical edge in 6 in which Zeus likely strikes the enemy that her sword impales or it might be because Haephatus did make her sword and shield.

Other then that the games explicitly don't use the lightning from the sky effect in later installments but rather just make flame/electricity be the visual key of "This" needs to be dodged you can't block it.

 

[Stillwinston]

The bullets do hit Mitsu's armour but the third shot does get blocked by his sword. He does the block rather quickly too iirc

Iirc in SC6 the move is called Tanegashima Terror, used in his sheathed stance. If he gets hit by projectiles he parries the shot and rushes forward it came out in season 2. So if Cerv tries to shoot him Mitsu negates it and rushes forward with an unblockable attack. It worked in the Haohmaru trailer too iirc

 

[SanguineStorms]

The bullets do hit Mitsu's armour but the third shot does get blocked by his sword. He does the block rather quickly too iirc

Iirc in SC6 the move is called Tanegashima Terror, used in his sheathed stance. If he gets hit by projectiles he parries the shot and rushes forward it came out in season 2. So if Cerv tries to shoot him Mitsu negates it and rushes forward with an unblockable attack. It worked in the Haohmaru trailer too iirc

His Shoulder armor blocks the shots in Tanegashima terror.

There isn't a parry of the bullet with his sword, he uses his armor to advance then slashes the opponent (Cervantes in this case)

If anything thats an anti-feat since hes visibly shown to not be parrying the bullet but instead just uses his armor to ignore the bullets.

 

[Stillwinston]

Fine then since I seemed to have been the only one to really argue this icba anymore but Mitsu blocks a bullet with his blade in the SC2 intro, I'm still on board for the 4-A changes

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You guys realize that these guys already have Supersonic+ reactions meaning reacting to and countering bullets is already a thing? Even if this were accepted, this would be reaction and combat speed only and not movement. Ordinary soldiers reacting to him doesn't really mean much considering we have ordinary soldiers already reacting to him when he has Supersonic+ reactions. I am perfectly willing to drop speed (Even though there are moves in SC3 that specifically use this same electricity as an attack by using the sword as a lighning rod), but the argument of ordinary soldier reacting doesn't fly when most verses can fall under this radar.

 

[SanguineStorms]

You guys realize that these guys already have Supersonic+ reactions meaning reacting to and countering bullets is already a thing? Even if this were accepted, this would be reaction and combat speed only and not movement. Ordinary soldiers reacting to him doesn't really mean much considering we have ordinary soldiers already reacting to him when he has Supersonic+ reactions. I am perfectly willing to drop speed (Even though there are moves in SC3 that specifically use this same electricity as an attack by using the sword as a lighning rod), but the argument of ordinary soldier reacting doesn't fly when most verses can fall under this radar.

What moves in 3's gamplay strike lightning from the sky??

Because as each game progressed forward they stopped using that visual effect, Mitsurugi's Tanegashima terror explictly has him using his shoulder armor to advance letting the bullet impact the armor while he closes the distance and slashes.

This wouldnt save him worth a damn if someone decided to shoot him literally anywhere else.

Hes shown to not rush down a gunshot or outrun them, this explicity hurts both the speed argument and reflex argument because hes NOT parrying the bullet.

He advances allowing the bullet to hit his shoulder armor.

 

[SanguineStorms]

Fine then since I seemed to have been the only one to really argue this icba anymore but Mitsu blocks a bullet with his blade in the SC2 intro, I'm still on board for the 4-A changes

He takes two shots overall before he does the thing you're pointing out. Though i believe it was just him readying his sword for a slash.

I will have to recheck.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"What moves in 3's gamplay strike lightning from the sky??"

Look at that the calcs. They use these moves.

"Because as each game progressed forward they stopped using that visual effect"

Okay? And last I checked, Abelia nor her style has actually been in the game since Soul Calibur 3.

"Mitsurugi's Tanegashima terror explictly has him using his shoulder armor to advance letting the bullet impact the armor while he closes the distance and slashes."

Okay, and this means what? This has nothing to do with what I said.

"This wouldnt save him worth a damn if someone decided to shoot him literally anywhere else."

Once again, what does this matter. Soul Calibur characters already scale to bullet dodging. They're Supersonic+ and even if he just let the bullets hit the armor, that merely shows that the bullets weren't worth dodging. And the one bullet that would have hit him in the face, he effortlessly reacts to and blocks.

"Hes shown to not rush down a gunshot or outrun them, this explicity hurts both the speed argument and reflex argument because hes NOT parrying the bullet."

He's Superhuman in movement speed, not fast enough to outrun a bullet iirc. I flat out said he wasn't faster than a bullet movement wise. Reflex argument is explicitly not touched as he directly blocks the one bullet that matters while completely not bothering to block the others as he doesn't have to. And unless you are trying to downgrade the Supersonic+ rating this does not matter as they are already accepted as far faster than bullets in reaction and combat speed. These aren't the anti-feats you think they are.

"He advances allowing the bullet to hit his shoulder armor."

Yes he does, this means nothing.

Like I could careless what does and doesn't get accepted as I myself have made it clear that I am not even sure these lightning feats can be applied. But, I can guarantee that Supersonic+ is going nowhere.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Why would he bother to slice the first two bullets when he is armored around there, on the face he has no protection and being shot there would be fatal compared to a spot with armor

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

but the argument of ordinary soldier reacting doesn't fly when most verses can fall under this radar.
So again, developers being dumb because they aren't checking this stuff like we are.

My argument exactly. As long as it does scale to people, I am entirely okay with the speed results.

 

[Schnee_One]

I mean if I may play Devils Advocate in on this, Supersonic+ and Supersonic is not that massive of a gap, it's completely plausible for a bullet to still hit you

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I mean, even then, everything in lore by the series supports that bullets are not an issue for Mitsurugi and that these guys are effortless bullet timers. A situation in which Mitsurugi simply chooses to not dodge a bullet shouldn't be used against him.

 

[SanguineStorms]

Why would he bother to slice the first two bullets when he is armored around there, on the face he has no protection and being shot there would be fatal compared to a spot with armor

Because he does not know that hes going to get shot there???

No one knows where they are going to get shot when the gun is literally just being aimed at him.

Showing that the fact he got shot twice means he explictly can't intercept the damn bullets.

He knows that Tanegashima's take forever to reload so he keeps running at them.

Getting lucky and slicing a bullet at close range right as you are about to cut someone is not a "I can cut bullets definitely kind of feat" its a i got lucky and didnt get shot in places my armor wasnt exposed.

The fact he even gets shot twice is clear indication hes not a bullet timer.

 

[Schnee_One]

You can still get hit as a bullet timer, the gap between bullet timeing and an actual bullet is not big

 

[SanguineStorms]

"What moves in 3's gamplay strike lightning from the sky??"

Look at that the calcs. They use these moves.

"Because as each game progressed forward they stopped using that visual effect"

Okay? And last I checked, Abelia nor her style has actually been in the game since Soul Calibur 3.

"Mitsurugi's Tanegashima terror explictly has him using his shoulder armor to advance letting the bullet impact the armor while he closes the distance and slashes."

Okay, and this means what? This has nothing to do with what I said.

"This wouldnt save him worth a damn if someone decided to shoot him literally anywhere else."

Once again, what does this matter. Soul Calibur characters already scale to bullet dodging. They're Supersonic+ and even if he just let the bullets hit the armor, that merely shows that the bullets weren't worth dodging. And the one bullet that would have hit him in the face, he effortlessly reacts to and blocks.

"Hes shown to not rush down a gunshot or outrun them, this explicity hurts both the speed argument and reflex argument because hes NOT parrying the bullet."

He's Superhuman in movement speed, not fast enough to outrun a bullet iirc. I flat out said he wasn't faster than a bullet movement wise. Reflex argument is explicitly not touched as he directly blocks the one bullet that matters while completely not bothering to block the others as he doesn't have to. And unless you are trying to downgrade the Supersonic+ rating this does not matter as they are already accepted as far faster than bullets in reaction and combat speed. These aren't the anti-feats you think they are.

"He advances allowing the bullet to hit his shoulder armor."

Yes he does, this means nothing.

Like I could careless what does and doesn't get accepted as I myself have made it clear that I am not even sure these lightning feats can be applied. But, I can guarantee that Supersonic+ is going nowhere.

I'm not trying to downgrade anything, but the fact Mitsurugi has to use his Shoulder armor to advance to not get shot in the face in Tanegashima terror highly goes against the idea of them being MHS which is all I was arguing.

 

[SanguineStorms]

You can still get hit as a bullet timer, the gap between bullet timeing and an actual bullet is not big

• Consistent bullet timer

If you get shot twice and youre literally only saved because it hits your armor thats a very bad sign.

 

[Schnee_One]

No even consistent bullet timers will get hit by a wall of bullets that are only slightly slower then they are

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Because he does not know that hes going to get shot there???

No one knows where they are going to get shot when the gun is literally just being aimed at him.

Showing that the fact he got shot twice means he explictly can't intercept the damn bullets.

He knows that Tanegashima's take forever to reload so he keeps running at them.

Getting lucky and slicing a bullet at close range right as you are about to cut someone is not a "I can cut bullets definitely kind of feat" its a i got lucky and didnt get shot in places my armor wasnt exposed.

The fact he even gets shot twice is clear indication hes not a bullet timer.

Thats not an argument, if he doesnt know where the third one hits either and still manages to slice it, thats reaction, at 0,25 speed on the video, the bullet is right in his face before he puts the sword to slice it

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Again, why would he bother slicing bullets in a place where getting hit doesnt affect him, you defend where its more vulnerable

 

[SanguineStorms]

Again, why would he bother slicing bullets in a place where getting hit doesnt affect him, you defend where its more vulnerable

Because he has no way knowing for sure that the bullets are going to target that parts on his armor???

This is literal logic.

Literally have him run at Nobunaga's Tanegashima fire line that gunned down the takeda Calvary and you tell me if Mitsurugi isnt going to end up with countless holes in him pulling that shit or his Tanegashima terror.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Why would he be unable to do this when he can perfectly cut another, meaning he can perceive the others easily, and even more so in a verse that is all about lots of skill based bullshit?

He knows what his armor can withstand better than you and me.

 

[SanguineStorms]

Why would he be unable to do this when he can perfectly cut another, meaning he can perceive the others easily, and even more so in a verse that is all about lots of skill based bullshit?

He knows what his armor can withstand better than you and me.

Do you seriously know how many bullets would be flying at him constantly if he actually did try to run up on Oda's Tanegashima line??

Horses move far faster than Mitsurugi runs.

Thats a literal onslaught of bullets aiming at his genral vicinity that is targeting literally every part on his body.

He was shown at the last second to barely have enough time to slice one in half.

Hes not cutting down a never ending hail of bullets.

He cant afford to be hit regardless. Irrelvant how durable he thinks his armor is.

If Tanegashima couldnt blow a hole in samurai armor Oda wouldnt have ended the Takeda Calvary with matchlocks.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So basically, you want us to ignore the fact that his own story mentions how Mitsurugi has long surpassed guns, outright been shown deflecting bullets... because a few bullets that did absolutely nothing to him weren't stopped.

This is also completely forgetting the fact he is comparable to Cervantes through Taki, who himself is comparable to Ivy, who is outright shown kicking his gun away the moment he fires before the bullet is even out of the barrel.

So yes, and considering that armor can withstand attacks from tier 7's... yes, Oda really doesn't matter one bit.

You are focusing so much on this one detail that I am honestly just outright confused.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Getting hit in the armor means shit, there is no reason for a character to defend from a projectile that hits in a place where its protected, a spot that if hit, will be fatal, is more important to defend to then one armored, how can you be so ignorant to this?its not luck or anything

 

[SanguineStorms]

So basically, you want us to ignore the fact that his own story mentions how Mitsurugi has long surpassed guns, outright been shown deflecting bullets... because a few bullets that did absolutely nothing to him weren't stopped.

This is also completely forgetting the fact he is comparable to Cervantes through Taki, who himself is comparable to Ivy, who is outright shown kicking his gun away the moment he fires before the bullet is even out of the barrel.

So yes, and considering that armor can withstand attacks from tier 7's... yes, Oda really doesn't matter one bit.

You are focusing so much on this one detail that I am honestly just outright confused.

Long surpassed a primitive ass Gun does not mean hes surpassed a modern day fire arm by any stretch.

All it says is that he conqured the Tanegashima.

Which is literally a one shot I have to reload and hope to god the person I shot at got wounded otherwise if im by myself they are going to close the distance and kill me weapon?

Or are you blantantly ignoring how he does it Via Tanegashima terror that explicity shows him not deflecting or cutting the bullet but instead using his shoulder armor as a bulwark as he advances gets close and cuts the attacker down?

This doesnt at all say "IM IMMUNE TO BULLETS" or "I'm faster than bullets" especially if I have to literally advance allowing the bullets to hit my armor.

When in reality someone would shoot him in an unprotected spot if they were competent.

 

[SanguineStorms]

Getting hit in the armor means shit, there is no reason for a character to defend from a projectile that hits in a place where its protected, a spot that if hit, will be fatal, is more important to defend to then one armored, how can you be so ignorant to this?its not luck or anything

Except Mitsurugi did not know he would get shot in his shoulder armor.

Literally no one would know where they are about to get shot from.

Not to mention at the point he does the said bullet cut hes literally in the face of the person attempting to shoot him.

And Tanegashima's Arent revolvers and quick firing them will lead to the bullet not hitting its mark.

Not to mention said bullet was aimed at his chest yeah?

Mitsurugi literally has armor on his chest.

The only reason he slices that damn bullet is because hes in the midst of cutting the person down.

Contrary to what you might think hitting a moving target with primitive guns is actually ALOT harder then youre probably thinking.

Even more so somehow managing to hit only his Shoulder armor which has luck/ plot written all over it.

Because realistically it wouldnt have been hitting his shoulder armor from that range.

It would have either shot his legs or shot him in the chest or the face.

Which weirdly enough doesnt happen.

Edit: Actually I watch the video again, and if he actually cut the bullet in half the ball would fragment and the pieces would have still hit his face.

Slicing a bullet in half doesn't take off the force of the other halves still going when its cleaved.

It looks more like he literally puts his sword up in a ready motion to attack and blocks the bullet Slimly but it also looks as if he was trying to redirect the bullet to his armor since his sword is in front of his face.

And If Mitsurugi can actually cut bullets consistently. Then Geralt should have got sliced up easily when they encountered one another but Geralt is literally treating him like he's not all impressed.

Geralt can't block or deflect bullets, he explicitly says people shouldn't even try to parry crossbow bolts.

And though he can he absolutely will only do so when its necessary.

Bullets fly faster than Crossbow bolts.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You realize much like Akuma in Tekken, Geralt in Soul Calibur is not the same Geralt from the Witcher, reason why they got different profiles for them in those verses

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

At this point I find this to be brutal nitpicking on your end...Like, you are trying to find any truly small and insignificant detail to say "Mitsurugi ain't a bullet timer" in which is becoming increasingly ridiculous. Legitimacy of lightning feats be damned as what you are arguing goes against the Supersonic+ ratings at well,

"Except Mitsurugi did not know he would get shot in his shoulder armor. Literally no one would know where they are about to get shot from."

Considering the guy himself had no intention of drawing his sword and let the bullets hit his armor kinda shows he wasn't worried about them hitting him.

"Not to mention at the point he does the said bullet cut hes literally in the face of the person attempting to shoot him."

That actually makes in more impressive as he was able to react at such close range.

"Not to mention said bullet was aimed at his chest yeah?"

Said bullet went for his face.

"Because realistically it wouldnt have been hitting his shoulder armor from that range"

Welp, it did. Realistically doesn't matter when the simple fact of the matter is that it hit his armor.

"Which weirdly enough doesnt happen."

Yeah, because they hit his shoulder armor.

"Actually I watch the video again, and if he actually cut the bullet in half the ball would fragment and the pieces would have still hit his face."

Whether he cut it in half is irrelevant. He reacted to it and blocked it. At close range at that.

"It looks more like he literally puts his sword up in a ready motion to attack and blocks the bullet Slimly but it also looks as if he was trying to redirect the bullet to his armor since his sword is in front of his face."

Or the most obvious conclusion. He reacted to and blocked the bullet.

"And If Mitsurugi can actually cut bullets consistently. Then Geralt should have got sliced up easily when they encountered one another but Geralt is literally treating him like he's not all impressed. Geralt can't block or deflect bullets, he explicitly says people shouldn't even try to parry crossbow bolts."

Geralt is literally Massively Hypersonic+ in his own series. He's literally slower in Soul Calibur despite being a higher tier....

 

[Antvasima]

@Dragon

Can you provide an easy to understand summary of the discussion and conclusions here? I and others might be able to help that way.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

So umm...are we going anywhere with this or what?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

It seems the Tier 4 material is accepted by essentially everyone so far. Not sure about the speed though but it seems majorly accepted as well so far.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

The speed just needs people to evaluate it and make sure these types of feats are even allowed to be used. As far as I see, 4-A for God Tiers is accepted however.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

As long as it's applicable to a single character, it is, as far as I know. After that, the only thing that matters is settling the scaling correctly.

Only thing that I believe is actually not allowed is using gameplay as justification for people scaling, as gameplay in fighting games doesn't care one bit about proper scaling.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I agree with the Tier 4 upgrades.