Possible DBS High-Tier Low 2-C Upgrade

[Nibbler3100]

Okay so the deal that was circulating around in the forums and chatrooms was that the only objection really preventing the Upgrade(s) up to Low 2-C (Destruction of a Universe and it's Space-Time Continuum) from Vegeta's showing of destroying the Hyperbolic Time Chamber was that it was apparently the size of the "earth " however I was skeptical of the scan in of itself (What's Ironic is I was the first one to bring the scan up in the threads and halted these needed changes, I apologize)

Now even though his feat is the natural progression of power in the series as we first have had a Universal Feat at the peak of their power (Goku vs Beerus Episode 12/13) and now a Universal Feat at the base level of their power people were still opposed to the argument like the characters aren't getting any stronger like they say they would (This is DBZ afterall lol)

So after many days of searching for the specific page's untranslated raw scan I came across "it ". Of course I couldn't translate it but I went over to a friend, well actually a group of friends that speaks fluent japanese (it's a club in college lol) and had them translate the Hiragana/Kanji without giving any pretense of the "situatio ". What I got back was as follows:

Õ£░þÉâÒü¿ÒüèÒü¬ÒüÿÕ║âÒüòÒéëÒüùÒüäÒü× Chikyuu to onaji hiro sarashii zo.

"It seems to be the same size/as wide as the earth.

Chikyuu (Õ£░þÉâ) = the earth

to onaji (Òü¿ÒüèÒü¬Òüÿ) = comparing something (usually two things)

hiro (Õ║â) = vast, wide, spacious, etc

sarashii (ÒüòÒéëÒüùÒüä) = seems to be, likely to be

zo (Òü×) = particle that expresses shock/awe

At first glance it looks like nothing's changed but it's the small things that can make a big difference, If you look closely What was thought to be the Translation was:

"This is supposed to be the same size as Earth" - as if somebody has told Goku this information prior, however as seen this is not the case

The Correct Translation is:

"It seems to be the same size as Earth" or "It's likely to be as wide as the Earth" - this clearly shows that Goku is just making an (un)educated guess as to what the ROSAT is

In Conclusion we shouldn't take Goku's Word as Disproving the Argument as a whole but this doesn't Prove it is universal in size either. So, I propose we put it up to a vote and create something like Two Schools/Sides. Thank you for your time and leave your thoughts down below and remember be respectful towards one another

 

[AguilaR101]

Where does the infinite size come from to begin with?

 

[Reppuzan]

Still, the burden of proof still falls on you to show that the Time Chamber is in fact infinite in size, not the other way around.

 

[LordAizenSama]

You only have arguments against it and nothing for it. Not a good way to argue it.

And we don't even know if the RoSaT is even destroyed. all we saw was a building explode.

 

[Majin_Acolyte]

In my opinion theres no reason not to believe Goku's statement. Not only does he describe the RoSaT's size but he also tells Gohan it's exact temperature, amount of oxygen and gravity. It's hard to imagine he has such specific information on every aspect except for it's size.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What Majin Acolyte said, with such precise information on the HTC there is no reason to disagree with what goku says in regards to it's size, where was it stated the HTC was infinite in size? We need proof of this.

 

[Ryukama]

I agree with Majin and don't know why they'd even have Goku call it Earth sized in the first place (then proceed to give a bunch of other very specific details like its exact temperature and gravity levels) right after, implying he has high knowledge of this place, if he were meant to be literally infinitely inaccurate. And if the point of this scene was Goku being so astronomically wrong, why nothing in the series ever disproved him.

From where I have looked around the internet and have seen others try and find, there doesn't seem to be evidence that RoSaT is infinite in size, so we're not going to assume it is just because the Earth statement may be questionable. Burden of Proof doesn't work that way.

Given the vagueness of the feat like Aizen and others have said, lack of proof that it's infinite, statements of it being planet level with little reason to disbelieve it and the possibility of it being an outlier, I believe it is best to discard this scene and wait until something far more concrete occurs before upgrading them to Tier 2.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Where does the infinite size come from to begin with?

Anime, I believe. At least, the Funimation dub. Don't know about the Japanese dub.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea i think that was just a typical funi dub change, i think i remember how the scene goes. They go in chamber, and goku says something about the chamber stretching forever and being careful not to get lost, or something like that.

Might be remembering that wrong either way the manga says it's only planet sized so yea no upgrade here.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Presumably, someone like Mr. Popo or Kami (before fusing with Piccolo) informed Goku of its size. Considering they kinda like...live right next to it. There is zero reason Goku would walk into a white void and go "Looks like it's the same size as Earth" unless he got that knowledge from someone who knew what they were talking about.

He also knows the exact range of temperature, comparative air pressure, and gravity. Goku would have no way to just walk into the room and guess this, and there's no way Goku of all people would try and make this insanely precise guess relating to temperature and size for no reason whatsoever. He's not omniscient.

There is no way we can follow the train of thought of "Goku says it's probably the same size as Earth, and also knows very specific statistics about the chamber. But he's probably just guessing. Therefore, it's equally as likely infinite in size" and come to the conclusion that warrants an upgrade.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

hmmm. I don't know but I'm split here. I trust Azzy's judgement and everyone elses. hmmm.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Ryukama, Azathoth, Reppuzan, and LordAizenSama. We should probably close this thread.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

wouldnt this still be high 3A since he's destroying a nonuniversal space time continuum?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Azzy what is your proposition for an upgrade since you said one was warranted.

 

[Antoniofer]

Just wait until they explain about what happened to the HTC, but knowing DBS, I think than that would never be adressed or explained good again.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I agree with the others above. Plus IIRC wasnt the ROSAT created by one of Earth's guardians at some point?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I more or less agree with Azzy.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I agree with the others above. Plus IIRC wasnt the ROSAT created by one of Earth's guardians at some point?

It's never explained where it came from IIRC, but it's only planet-sized anyway.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's never explained where it came from IIRC, but it's only planet-sized anyway.

Oh kk. Cuz I thought one of the guardians of earth created the room at some time and if that were true, then this would have made it a massive outlier.

 

[Antvasima]

So, should we close this thread?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Petty much I will have to agree with the others. I think this thread should be closed since it is petty much been debunked on the fact Goku with the help of Kami or Mr. Popo's info on the HTC being the size of the "Earth" is petty accurate. I do recall that Dende have to fix (reconstructed) the HTC after the damage that came in the Majin Buu Arc implying it was still the same size as before, but with improvements.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.