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Possible Canon Count Dooku (and Anakin Skywalker?) Upgrade

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I believe should be "likely 7-A", maybe even "Likely High 7-A". Dooku in the Clone Wars is portrayed as being superior to 'EVERYON'E in the setting not named Yoda, Sidious, or the Zillo Beast. Possibly Windu too, but honestly unlikely (Windu in Legends was always portrayed as canonically, statement-wise and feat-wise weaker than Dooku in both force power and dueling skill, and I don't think that really changes in canon considering Maul gave him a decent fight in that time frame that was interrupted, but ended up with Windu KO'd but I digress. I probably won't convince you people anyway so I won't bother).

There's 3 reasons for this

First off, Dooku is not a peer of Kenobi, Plo Koon or Maul, he is their superior. He's whooped Kenobi's rear several times, is easily superior to Ventress who is comparable to Kenobi, Maul, and Savage Opress (and by extension Maul), and has even kicked him (Kenobi) down casually (IE ROTS). The only peers to Dooku in TCW are End of Series/ROTS Anakin (If you watch the series in chronological order, every fight Dooku gets in with Anakin gets closer with each fight, the last ending up with Anakin arguably surpassing Dooku (Palpatine is even impressed by this as Anakin is choking Dooku)) and Mace Windu, who is generally above most everyone as well not named Sidious or Yoda, and IMO should be "Likely 7-A" too, considering he gets one-shot by Sidious once he gets serious and was already exhausted from a semi-casual Sidious


Second, he survived Mother Talzin's (The ONLY character in the TCW setting who is truly comparable (albeit yes, weaker) to Yoda or Sidious (Sidious didn't even defeat her 1v1, he had help from Dooku, who again, is superior to Maul. He would've likely won to be sure, but it likely would've been closer if Dooku didn't intervene to aid Sidious. Also worth noting is that Talzin used her power to throw Maul back rather than keep her shield up because Grievous was approaching, another slight against the idea that Sidious "defeated Talzin in two panels") Voodoo Torture. Talzin was trying to kill him (though honestly, it would've been easier to kill Dooku 1v1, given Talzin matched Mace Windu in a duel (which further proves that Windu is not truly comparable to Sidious, given that Talzin got lolnoped by a serious Sidious in a few panels in a lightsaber duel), and was stalemating Sidious until Dooku and Grievous joined the fight), proving he is capable of surviving casual attacks from the High 7-As. Similarly he survived getting choked by Sidious. While this is seemingly pathetic, Dooku still survived a casual attack from him, similar to how he survived getting tortured by Talzin


Third, as previously stated, he's shown to be superior to quite literally everyone not named Yoda, Sidious, Mace Windu (which is ambigious at best in canon, given he gets OHKO'd by Sidious the same way we deride Dooku and even Vader for once things get serious), and by the end, Anakin Skywalker. The tier wouldn't scale to people like Kit Fisto, Shaak Ti, Plo Koon, Kenobi (he's only comparable to Dooku in Legends really. He never really approached Dooku in canon, outside of Ben Kenobi, who seems to be stronger in Canon than ROTS Kenobi)


Dooku has consistently been portrayed in both continuities to be vastly superior to General Grievous, most of the council (Even as a Jedi, he was superior to Qui Gon who is superior to most of the Council as noted by Kenobi, who if not for obeying them acknowledges he would be on the council by now. Dooku himself was treated as the most gifted student of his generation, and his loss being the most sore one for the Jedi in the Lost Twenty. This is before he became a sith lord and more powerful under Sidious' tutelage)


Overall, he was consistently portrayed as the "Borderline" alongside Anakin (the only character in TCW to come close to defeating him who isn't High 7-A) and Windu, so I don't see how the two of them (Anakin and Dooku) should be in the 7-B tier, given that they are vastly superior to literally any 7-B SW character you could name
 
Dooku was clearly suffering from Talzin's voodoo torture and would've been killed by it had Grievous not stopped the ritual.

The rest of the feats don't make him scale to the High 7-A, it just makes him above most of the other characters.
 
No.

As The Everlasting stated, Dooku would have died if Grievous had not stopped the ritual.

In addition, you can't scale AP or Durability from what is explicitly Durability Negating magic.
 
Reppuzan said:
No.
As The Everlasting stated, Dooku would have died if Grievous had not stopped the ritual.

In addition, you can't scale AP or Durability from what is explicitly Durability Negating magic.
Yeah, but Dooku still survived this from a character who is High 7-A, even though it was casual. He seemed to be under the ritual for a couple of hour though.

I'm not trying to scale him to the High 7-A's so much as being between High 7-A and and 7-B, as he's significantly below and above them respectively
 
@Bruce

He wasn't surviving hax at all. It would have killed him and he had no resistance to it.

Dooku is also not absurdly above Kenobi by the end of the Clone Wars, as Kenobi and Anakin out-duel Dooku in the opening of Revenge of the Sith.
 
Kenobi is also considerably above most of the jedi council in both continuities though.


It was mostly just Anakin. Kenobi gets subdued in like a minute, and it's only in Legends where Dooku used a lot of power to subdue Kenobi
 
@Bruce

And Kenobi beat Anakin, so no, one is not absurdly superior to the other.
 
@Bruce

Not really. Kenobi was explicitly wearing Anakin down with Soresu while forcing Anakin to consistently make mistakes that angered him and tired him out.

In addition, Kenobi beat back both Maul and Savage, the latter of whom was able to overwhelm Dooku and Ventress together.
 
Kenobi wasn't wearing Anakin down, Anakin was wearing him down. His strikes were even damaging Kenobi's wrist bones

PIS, Dooku stomped Savage once and is superior to Maul who also stomped Savage
 
@Bruce

Legends and Canon say the opposite. It's the central tenet of Soresu to outlast your opponent through maximum economy of movement, which is why Obi-Wan beat Anakin.

That was before Savage rebelled against Dooku. And as I stated before, Anakin beat Dooku and Obi-Wan beat Anakin.
 
No, it only allowed Kenobi to survive, he was losing the fight decisively. The reason he won was the infamous high ground tactic

And? Savage wasn't much stronger. He only gets significantly stronger under Maul, where his feats are noticeably better and more consistent, and his skills with the force improve quite a bit
 
@Bruce

Kenobi was intentionally giving ground to frustrate Anakin into making a mistake, hence the high ground tactic. Even before this, Kenobi matched Anakin in a Force Push battle and deflected Force Lightning from Dooku.

Any changes that happen here would also apply to Legends, since these events happen in both.
 
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