Pokemon - Game Red CRT

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Since Pokemon Masters is confirmed Canon to the Story, I feel possibly we need to change a few things about Red's placement. For starters...

https://i.imgur.com/AFq27Sb_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Pokemon confirms they retconned any instance of Red ever losing in the series, and conformed as of Pokemon Masters, an Game that includes trainers using Legendaries, that he's absolutely the strongest trainer. This would mean:

• He upscales above every conceived canon Trainer, whether they have an Legendary or Not, whether they are a Champion or not, from prior to Pokemon Masters
• It heavily implies Red won the Battle Tree, World Championship, and other such events he was explicitly a part of. There are statements that he accomplished feats no Trainer in Paslo could've accomplished with his Snorlax alone, and there are trainers with Legendaries in Paslo (which explicitly only allows someone to wield 1 of their pokemon) , both in story and Event wise. And the statement about him being the strongest in History takes place after the Pokemon League which had the strongest trainers in Paslo.

I am here to discuss what tier this would put previous versions of him, and what tier he would get for his current peak version.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Since Pokemon Masters is confirmed Canon to the Story

Where?

Pokemon confirms they retconned any instance of Red ever losing in the series, and conformed as of Pokemon Masters, an Game that includes trainers using Legendaries, that he's absolutely the strongest trainer. This would mean:

That is not how retcons work. If I punch a tree then later on say "I've never punched a tree before" would that retcon me punching a tree? Blue also didn't say Red has never lose, he just said winning streak

And Red also got stronger over time because he did lose to the USUM protagonist earlier on

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Where?

While talking about the development of “Pokémon Masters”, we have this information about its production.

Pokemon.com: How do you flesh out characters who have had minimal screen time in the Pokémon RPGs? Did you work with people at The Pokémon Company to make sure your new details were in canon?
Mr. Sasaki: We have worked with The Pokémon Company closely on details in the game, and they have of course checked our new details to make sure they fit in the world of Pokémon. One of the major new features of this game—and the content that we want to highlight—is the interaction between various Trainers. Players will be able to enjoy new and exciting interactions between Trainers who may not have interacted before. To create these interactions, we considered the personalities and backgrounds of these Trainers and made sure that our content did not deviate from that. If a character would never say or do a certain thing, we made sure that they do not in our game. -We Interview DeNA’s Yu Sasaki about Pokémon Masters

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Are any of these legendary pokemon part of the Tier 2 legendaries

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Are any of these legendary pokemon part of the Tier 2 legendaries

Yes. Cyrus have Palkia. Cynthia got a new version with Giratina in a new update, and Lucas (who'll come soon) is going to have Dialga

And speaking of Masters, Giovanni defeated Red when he used Mewtwo. So Red isn't even the strongest if Giovanni beated him

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Doesn't detract since:
1: Red's statements was prior to his defeat by Giovanni
2: Giovanni's Mewtwo was mega amped ontop of Mega Evolution. He literally forced his Mewtwo to break his limits three times over, and then had to Mega Evolve to beat Red and Blue.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Doesn't detract since:
1: Red's statements was prior to his defeat by Giovanni
2: Giovanni's Mewtwo was mega amped ontop of Mega Evolution. He literally forced his Mewtwo to break his limits three times over, and then had to Mega Evolve to beat Red and Blue.

Still doesn't change how Red was defeated, even when Blue helped him. And Red literally tried to beat Giovanni by Gigantamaxing his Snorlax, but lost

Besides, Pokémon Masters isn't mentioned anywhere else in the game franchise, so this is probably only canon to itself

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Still doesn't change how Red was defeated, even when Blue helped him. And Red literally tried to beat Giovanni by Gigantamaxing his Snorlax, but lost

Besides, Pokémon Masters isn't mentioned anywhere else in the game franchise, so this is probably only canon to itself

Again, he's the only character to officially upscale above Red based on an Massive amp he got. So I honestly really treat it as the one Character who officially bested him was an Legendary who got one of the biggest amps in the entire series, ontop of Mega Evolution.

Like you cannot undersell just how big of an amp he got. The proof is on the opposition to prove anyone else upscales to him in Paslo, and considering his placement in the Master League and the above statements, it's hard to find that anyone outside of Giovanni us outright stronger than him.

If it's only canon to Pokemon Masters then sure an key is probably needed in that case.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

A Pokemon Masters key should be good, but that wouldn't affect the other versions of Red from the main games

Besides, even after Giovanni escaped, Red didn't try to chase him, even though he also appeared in Ghetsis' story

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I already said my response to that. Giovanni would be his only canon superior at this point, considering Cynthia is considered but a stepping stone, and Masters Cynthia has a lot of crazy feats in the events and story mode

Yes I know Scottie beat him but it was directly said and made abundantly clear that was due to teamwork and the team were still far below Red strength wise.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I already said my response to that. Giovanni would be his only canon superior at this point, considering Cynthia is considered but a stepping stone, and Masters Cynthia has a lot of crazy feats in the events and story mode

Cynthia is still one of the strongest trainers in all of Pasio, and with Renegade Cynthia & Giratina, she's likely even stronger. Red might be stronger, but even then it'd only be when he Mega Evolved his Charizard

Yes I know Scottie beat him but it was directly said and made abundantly clear that was due to teamwork and the team were still far below Red strength wise.

I would agree with that, considering how much sync pairs the team had by this point

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I do agree with the sentiment that she is amongst the strongest trainers in Paslo. I don't doubt that. The Story makes it clear she's definitely quite up there in Masters.

I also agree that having that many sync pairs would've considerably boosted their strength due to how sync pairs work as an amp.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Masters is indeed at least semi-canon. It’s…weird.
Also I’d wager that the top 5 strongest trainers that have been in Pasio are Leon, Cynthia, Red, Blue, and Giovanni.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Masters is indeed at least semi-canon. It’s…weird.

The games are canon to Masters, but not the other way around since no main pokemon game mentions things from Pokemon Masters or the Pasio region

Also I’d wager that the top 5 strongest trainers that have been in Pasio are Leon, Cynthia, Red, Blue, and Giovanni.

I agree with this, though Leon doesn't do all that much in Masters so that's debatable

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Leon doesn't do all that much in Masters so that's debatable

He beat Blue in Tournament I think

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He beat Blue in Tournament I think

He never appeared in the PML didn't he?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

A different Tourney was held to celebrate Galar entering Paslo. Leon defeated Blue with a blindsighting Sync Move. Blue didn't get a chance to use his Full Power.

So, He scales to Regular Blue's Blastoise. Not when he was Mega Evolved

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

A different Tourney was held to celebrate Galar entering Paslo. Leon defeated Blue with a blindsighting Sync Move. Blue didn't get a chance to use his Full Power.

So, He scales to Regular Blue's Blastoise. Not when he was Mega Evolved

Alright. Considering Leon's Charizard can't Gigantamax in that game either, it makes sense to scale Charizard above Blue's Blastoise but not to Mega Blastoise

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The games are canon to Masters, but not the other way around since no main pokemon game mentions things from Pokemon Masters or the Pasio region

Pretty sure only one game came out since (SwSh) and it doesn't need to be mentioned in the main games to be canon. Just look at Rangers or Collosseum.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Pretty sure only one game came out since (SwSh) and it doesn't need to be mentioned in the main games to be canon. Just look at Rangers or Collosseum.

Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl doesn't mention it either. I'm not saying it's not canon, but it's more like a one way canonicity where the games are canon to Masters, but Masters is not canon to the games

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Now... For tbe God Tiers of Pokemon Masters... What would be their tier ?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl doesn't mention it either. I'm not saying it's not canon, but it's more like a one way canonicity where the games are canon to Masters, but Masters is not canon to the games

That's headcanon. Not mentioning something doesn't mean its just non canon. Black and White doesn't mention Ruby and Sapphire

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's headcanon. Not mentioning something doesn't mean its just non canon. Black and White doesn't mention Ruby and Sapphire

Difference is that both Black & White and Hoenn exist in the same universe

Hell, in B2W2, characters from all regions, including Hoenn, goes to the Pokémon World Tournament, and Black 2 & White 2 directly continue from Black & White respectively

So yeah, Hoenn clearly exists in these games and so does the rest of the regions

Pasio however, is mentioned nowhere by any official media other than Pokémon Masters, not games, manga or the anime

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Difference is that both Black & White and Hoenn exist in the same universe

Hell, in B2W2, characters from all regions, including Hoenn, goes to the Pokémon World Tournament, and Black 2 & White 2 directly continue from Black & White respectively

So yeah, Hoenn clearly exists in these games and so does the rest of the regions

Pasio however, is mentioned nowhere by any official media other than Pokémon Masters, not games, manga or the anime

Ok and? Still doesn't mean it isn't canon to the other games

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Ok and? Still doesn't mean it isn't canon to the other games

Got any proof to how is it canon to the other games when there are stuff in Pokemon Masters that contradict games such as Sword and Shield? (Leon implies that he's the undefeated champion and the strongest trainer in the world, but Masters says Red is stronger, and Giovanni defeated Red)

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Got any proof to how is it canon to the other games when there are stuff in Pokemon Masters that contradict games such as Sword and Shield? (Leon implies that he's the undefeated champion and the strongest trainer in the world, but Masters says Red is stronger, and Giovanni defeated Red)

Thats not contradictory. Red could just have gotten stronger. Red being defeated by Giovanni doesn't contradict anything. You need to know that not everything new is a retcon, don't jump to conclusions

The trailer literally showed scenes from Sword and Shield when talking about Eternatus and Leon's past

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The trailer literally showed scenes from Sword and Shield when talking about Eternatus and Leon's past

I don't deny that the games are canon to Masters, since they clearly are.

What I say is that Masters isn't canon to the main game. It's basically a one way canon situation

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I don't deny that the games are canon to Masters, since they clearly are.

What I say is that Masters isn't canon to the main game. It's basically a one way canon situation

Too bad for you then

 

[Rez]

Bump

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump.