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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

Stoutland keeps lillipup's ability to use the long hair around its face as an amazing radar that lets it sense subtle changes in its surroundings. Lenora goes on a whole tangent about ones roots during her battle to help Black figure it out as hypnosis's accuracy canonically sucks.
 
Stoutland keeps lillipup's ability to use the long hair around its face as an amazing radar that lets it sense subtle changes in its surroundings. Lenora goes on a whole tangent about ones roots during her battle to help Black figure it out as hypnosis's accuracy canonically sucks.
Well yeah, obviously they keep their pre-evolutions biological factors unless stated otherwise

As for actual Abilities, they dont keep them.
 
As for actual Abilities, they dont keep them.
I know this is referring to lines where the ability changes as they evolve but I am just imagining a world where incineroar doesn't get intimidate because of Litten having it. Also yeah, that is a problem with several profiles if you're interested in changing that I am willing to look through profiles to find which made the mistake.
 
They finally released the official 2d art for all the characters and Megas.





I don’t feel like posting all of them, but the Mega renders should be easy to find.
 
Should we get the outdated page tags on a lot of the mons without their ZA megas? (also some of the Paldean evolutions like Bisharp)
 
Idk what the process is, surely we dont need a CRT to put it up since its kinda obvious theyre outdated
(Heck, for adding mega pokemon we shouldnt even need a CRT but since it adds a new tiering...)
 
You would still need a CRT, but for something as self-evident as "this Pokemon can go Super Saiyan now (points to Snorlax becoming buff and growing spiky blond hair)", it should be easy to pass.
 
They finally released the official 2d art for all the characters and Megas.





I don’t feel like posting all of them, but the Mega renders should be easy to find.

Another thing, we got official 2d art of Eternal Floette (spoilered tweet also includes some Megas):


While Floette is a part of AZ’s Z-A art, as far as I’m aware we never got a standard main style render for her until now.
 
Everyone, we've got a big problem. Pokemon's VS community needs us more than ever.

I'm sorry to say that we're the only ones left... but that means we still have a shot. Almost everyone else is gone because of things like Pokemon VS Digimon, Ash VS Yugi, Thor VS 100 Pikachus, or a combination between multiple. It is very clear that everybody has very little respect for Pokemon in VS anymore.

So we need to round them all up. Pull a Halo: Infinite. Go and seek out all the Pokemon debaters you know and point them to VS Battles Wiki. Make and post Pokemon profiles to keep up appearances. Share them with Pokemon fans you trust.

I'll be doing the same and I'll keep in touch via this discussion thread.
 
Almost everyone else is gone because of things like Pokemon VS Digimon, Ash VS Yugi, Thor VS 100 Pikachus, or a combination between multiple. It is very clear that everybody has very little respect for Pokemon in VS anymore.
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Everyone, we've got a big problem. Pokemon's VS community needs us more than ever.

I'm sorry to say that we're the only ones left... but that means we still have a shot. Almost everyone else is gone because of things like Pokemon VS Digimon, Ash VS Yugi, Thor VS 100 Pikachus, or a combination between multiple. It is very clear that everybody has very little respect for Pokemon in VS anymore.

So we need to round them all up. Pull a Halo: Infinite. Go and seek out all the Pokemon debaters you know and point them to VS Battles Wiki. Make and post Pokemon profiles to keep up appearances. Share them with Pokemon fans you trust.

I'll be doing the same and I'll keep in touch via this discussion thread.
I can't claim to approve of DB's past treatment of Pokemon, such as Blanka beating Pikachu (and blending him into a drink) when the result would be comically one-sided the other way, but I don't think people think Pokemon is a joke. Arceus has Tier 1 and the verse has a lot of hax, for starters. That's not a verse that's being walked all over. If Arceus was downgraded to the level of the meteor anti-feat and all hax dismissed as gameplay mechanics, that would be the verse being used as a doormat.
 
Everyone, we've got a big problem. Pokemon's VS community needs us more than ever.

I'm sorry to say that we're the only ones left... but that means we still have a shot. Almost everyone else is gone because of things like Pokemon VS Digimon, Ash VS Yugi, Thor VS 100 Pikachus, or a combination between multiple. It is very clear that everybody has very little respect for Pokemon in VS anymore.

So we need to round them all up. Pull a Halo: Infinite. Go and seek out all the Pokemon debaters you know and point them to VS Battles Wiki. Make and post Pokemon profiles to keep up appearances. Share them with Pokemon fans you trust.

I'll be doing the same and I'll keep in touch via this discussion thread.
We don’t need more profiles, if anything we need less so that they can all be kept up to date.
 
I can't claim to approve of DB's past treatment of Pokemon, such as Blanka beating Pikachu (and blending him into a drink) when the result would be comically one-sided the other way, but I don't think people think Pokemon is a joke. Arceus has Tier 1 and the verse has a lot of hax, for starters. That's not a verse that's being walked all over. If Arceus was downgraded to the level of the meteor anti-feat and all hax dismissed as gameplay mechanics, that would be the verse being used as a doormat.
That would mean it’s been taken care of, by its own people, at one point.
 
Ok I have a question

Do we have any official calculations for the length and weight of the SS anne? or would we just scale this to a cruise ship? (I'm thinking of scaling this to a cruise ship based on its portrayal and what's stated in bulbapedia)

Main reason I'm asking is because i'm currently working on a quick calculation for this feat
 
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Ok I have a question

Do we have any official calculations for the length and weight of the SS anne? or would we just scale this to a cruise ship? (I'm thinking of scaling this to a cruise ship based on its portrayal and what's stated in bulbapedia)

Main reason I'm asking is because i'm currently working on a quick calculation for this feat
I'm not sure if it'll help, but I did rant about my frustrating findings in an experience I had with a similar feat of Shadow Lugia's.

I'll just copy paste the bulk of it here:


Recently, I had a heck of a time trying to figure out how much cruise ships weigh.

Why?
Well the short answer is THAT THEIR NOMENCLATURE IS (IMHO) VEXINGLY STUPID.
Pardon my language just now there, please.


"Gross tonnage (GT, G.T. or gt) is a nonlinear measure of a ship's overall internal volume. Gross tonnage is different from gross register tonnage.[1] Neither gross tonnage nor gross register tonnage should be confused with measures of mass or weight such as deadweight tonnage or displacement."
[1]: "The gross register ton (GRT) is a unit of volume defined as 100 cubic feet (2.8 m3)."

"Gross register tonnage (GRT, grt, g.r.t., gt), or gross registered tonnage, is a ship's total internal volume expressed in "register tons", each of which is equal to 100 cubic feet (2.83 m3). Replaced by Gross Tonnage (GT), gross register tonnage uses the total permanently enclosed capacity of the vessel as its basis for volume. Typically this is used for dockage fees, canal transit fees, and similar purposes where it is appropriate to charge based on the size of the entire vessel. Internationally, GRT may be abbreviated as BRT for the German "Bruttoregistertonne"."


TL;DR - Despite being called TONNAGE of those, NEITHER of them measure mass (Which tons are a unit of measurement for!) & are measures of volume, the former from the mid-1900s & defined in cubic feet(??) & the other is the former's outdated version from 1849!

"Deadweight tonnage (also known as deadweight; abbreviated to DWT, D.W.T., d.w.t., or dwt) or tons deadweight (DWT) or tons deadweight (DWT) is a measure of how much weight a ship can carry.[1][2][3] It is the sum of the weights of cargo, fuel, fresh water, ballast water, provisions, passengers, and crew.[1]"

So Deadweight tonnage also isn't mass, either!!

So what IS a ship's mass?!


"The displacement or displacement tonnage of a ship is its weight. As the term indicates, it is measured indirectly, using Archimedes' principle, by first calculating the volume of water displaced by the ship, then converting that value into weight. Traditionally, various measurement rules have been in use, giving various measures in long tons.[1] Today, tonnes are more commonly used.[Citation needed]"

Ship displacement varies by a vessel's degree of load, from its empty weight as designed (known as "lightweight tonnage"[2]) to its maximum load. Numerous specific terms are used to describe varying levels of load and trim, detailed below.

Ship displacement should not be confused with measurements of volume or capacity typically used for commercial vessels and measured by tonnage: net tonnage and gross tonnage."

This is especially a pain in the rear because you'd want the mass of an empty ship for low ends, because you don't always know if a ship contains what could justify the high end of a fuller ship! (IMHO.)

After like, hours of searching, the only ships I could find were the Titanic (You know, the renowned, super-publicized shipwreck from like a century ago, with a ship touted for its size & unsinkability & whatnot?), & this for some reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_E-class_container_ship Why that, I do not know.

Seriously, would it be so bad for folks to list the mass their ships had in the shipyard?! Are those preciously kept secrets?!
Why make us go through the pain of measuring the water displacement so we can simulate Archimede's Principle?!


Respectively:
Titanic: 52,310 tonnes (52,310,000 kilograms)
Triple E-class container ship: 55,000 tonnes (empty)[1] (55,000,000 kilograms)



Oh, & in Hoenn's Oceanic Museum, their miniature replica of the S.S. Anne is described with: "A replica of the luxury liner that circles the globe."

IDK the original Japanese, but I hope that's helpful in discerning the dimensions/weight/mass of the ship.
 
I'm not sure if it'll help, but I did rant about my frustrating findings in an experience I had with a similar feat of Shadow Lugia's.

I'll just copy paste the bulk of it here:


Recently, I had a heck of a time trying to figure out how much cruise ships weigh.

Why?
Well the short answer is THAT THEIR NOMENCLATURE IS (IMHO) VEXINGLY STUPID.
Pardon my language just now there, please.


"Gross tonnage (GT, G.T. or gt) is a nonlinear measure of a ship's overall internal volume. Gross tonnage is different from gross register tonnage.[1] Neither gross tonnage nor gross register tonnage should be confused with measures of mass or weight such as deadweight tonnage or displacement."
[1]: "The gross register ton (GRT) is a unit of volume defined as 100 cubic feet (2.8 m3)."

"Gross register tonnage (GRT, grt, g.r.t., gt), or gross registered tonnage, is a ship's total internal volume expressed in "register tons", each of which is equal to 100 cubic feet (2.83 m3). Replaced by Gross Tonnage (GT), gross register tonnage uses the total permanently enclosed capacity of the vessel as its basis for volume. Typically this is used for dockage fees, canal transit fees, and similar purposes where it is appropriate to charge based on the size of the entire vessel. Internationally, GRT may be abbreviated as BRT for the German "Bruttoregistertonne"."


TL;DR - Despite being called TONNAGE of those, NEITHER of them measure mass (Which tons are a unit of measurement for!) & are measures of volume, the former from the mid-1900s & defined in cubic feet(??) & the other is the former's outdated version from 1849!

"Deadweight tonnage (also known as deadweight; abbreviated to DWT, D.W.T., d.w.t., or dwt) or tons deadweight (DWT) or tons deadweight (DWT) is a measure of how much weight a ship can carry.[1][2][3] It is the sum of the weights of cargo, fuel, fresh water, ballast water, provisions, passengers, and crew.[1]"

So Deadweight tonnage also isn't mass, either!!

So what IS a ship's mass?!
Yeah I ran into that issue when making the calc (it didn't help that google genuinely made me think imperial tons and gross tons were the same thing)

"The displacement or displacement tonnage of a ship is its weight. As the term indicates, it is measured indirectly, using Archimedes' principle, by first calculating the volume of water displaced by the ship, then converting that value into weight. Traditionally, various measurement rules have been in use, giving various measures in long tons.[1] Today, tonnes are more commonly used.[Citation needed]"

Ship displacement varies by a vessel's degree of load, from its empty weight as designed (known as "lightweight tonnage"[2]) to its maximum load. Numerous specific terms are used to describe varying levels of load and trim, detailed below.

Ship displacement should not be confused with measurements of volume or capacity typically used for commercial vessels and measured by tonnage: net tonnage and gross tonnage."

This is especially a pain in the rear because you'd want the mass of an empty ship for low ends, because you don't always know if a ship contains what could justify the high end of a fuller ship! (IMHO.)

After like, hours of searching, the only ships I could find were the Titanic (You know, the renowned, super-publicized shipwreck from like a century ago, with a ship touted for its size & unsinkability & whatnot?), & this for some reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_E-class_container_ship Why that, I do not know.

Seriously, would it be so bad for folks to list the mass their ships had in the shipyard?! Are those preciously kept secrets?!
Why make us go through the pain of measuring the water displacement so we can simulate Archimede's Principle?!


Respectively:
Titanic: 52,310 tonnes (52,310,000 kilograms)
Triple E-class container ship: 55,000 tonnes (empty)[1] (55,000,000 kilograms)
Thankfully I tried using an IRL ship similar enough to it to fix this issue

Actually calculating it's dimensions and stuff if possible would probably be more preferable though so I'll probably try calculating that once I either find better and more consistent POVs from the manga or some other part of the source material.
Oh, & in Hoenn's Oceanic Museum, their miniature replica of the S.S. Anne is described with: "A replica of the luxury liner that circles the globe."
That helps as more supporting evidence for this being a Cruise ship.

Will ask though, is there anything that tells us the amount of people the SS anne regularly carries? Or can carry?
IDK the original Japanese, but I hope that's helpful in discerning the dimensions/weight/mass of the ship.
I forgot to consider the fact that Japanese customs are different, f***.

This was helpful though but I have another question

Pokemon canonicity is still very confusing to me so I gotta ask, would it be possible to use the games to pixel scale it?

Way I see it I could probably pixel scale the size of a human compared to one of the deck windows and then use a full body shot from the manga for the ship (assuming that isn't in the game)
 
Yeah I ran into that issue when making the calc (it didn't help that google genuinely made me think imperial tons and gross tons were the same thing)

Thankfully I tried using an IRL ship similar enough to it to fix this issue

Actually calculating it's dimensions and stuff if possible would probably be more preferable though so I'll probably try calculating that once I either find better and more consistent POVs from the manga or some other part of the source material.

That helps as more supporting evidence for this being a Cruise ship.

Will ask though, is there anything that tells us the amount of people the SS anne regularly carries? Or can carry?
Not sure, never looked into that.
It has a 3D model in LG: P/E, & maybe also HG/SS.
I forgot to consider the fact that Japanese customs are different, f***.
サント・アンヌ号 St. Annu
St. Annu (サント・アンヌ) is the name of the computer in Game Freak's Sega Mega Drive title Pulseman. The specific kana spelling used is a transliteration of the French Sainte Anne, which means "Saint Anne".

The Japanese word 号 gō, in this context, means "model"; however, it is a Japanese-only descriptor and is not meant to be translated. The English localization uses the equivalent "S.S.", short for steamship, and drops "St." from the name.

IDK if it helps. Hope it does.
This was helpful though but I have another question

Pokemon canonicity is still very confusing to me so I gotta ask, would it be possible to use the games to pixel scale it?
I think so? I don't quite remember our stance.
Probably best to try with the manga canon just to be safe, but you could use the other versions as alternative ends.
Way I see it I could probably pixel scale the size of a human compared to one of the deck windows and then use a full body shot from the manga for the ship (assuming that isn't in the game)
Might be viable?
 
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I just beat Pokémon ZA today, and overall, I really enjoyed it. Gameplay was fun, the cast is fun, and the story was cool. My biggest criticisms gameplay-wise are that I feel like controlling Pokémon movement could be better, and the final boss battle was kinda underwhelming as a fight.

I kinda wanna update Mawile's and the Snorunt's profiles cause I've grown to really like them since I had a Mawile and a Froslass on my team in Pokémon Unbound (In a save I no longer have cause I deleted it by accident, getting rid of like 100 hours of progress 🥀) and went on to use them in ZA. It's been a little while since I did anything profile-related for the wiki, so idk when I'ma get around to it, if I ever do.
 
I just beat Pokémon ZA today, and overall, I really enjoyed it. Gameplay was fun, the cast is fun, and the story was cool. My biggest criticisms gameplay-wise are that I feel like controlling Pokémon movement could be better, and the final boss battle was kinda underwhelming as a fight.

I kinda wanna update Mawile's and the Snorunt's profiles cause I've grown to really like them since I had a Mawile and a Froslass on my team in Pokémon Unbound (In a save I no longer have cause I deleted it by accident, getting rid of like 100 hours of progress 🥀) and went on to use them in ZA. It's been a little while since I did anything profile-related for the wiki, so idk when I'ma get around to it, if I ever do.
Now's the time! The Pokemon fans need us more than ever.
 
Another thing, we got official 2d art of Eternal Floette (spoilered tweet also includes some Megas):


While Floette is a part of AZ’s Z-A art, as far as I’m aware we never got a standard main style render for her until now.

It's weird to think we didn't have official art for Eternal Floette even though we've known about for so long.
 
I am doing alright today.
I hope everyone else is doing okay.

Is anything on your mind?
Just that our Pokemon community needs to be rebuilt; and that starts with assuring the safety of those who have never left. I feel like just about all Pokemon debaters have left the site for one reason or another by now.
 
I'm all for helping out Pokemon, although I only know the first four generations properly with a little Gen 5 and 6 knowledge. After that it's practically a blank.
 
So uh quick question

Super effective attacks obv allow pokemon to effect other much stronger pokemon they would have no busness scaling to otherwise

Would we scale their showings offensively to their resistances?

What I mean is lets say we had a 7-B grass type harm a 6-B water type with a grass type move, would we assume their resistances are 6-B because they scale to the ap of their attacks when super effective

as in would we say "Since this 7-B grass type could harm 6-Bs with super effective moves that means its durability for things it resists I.E ground type moves must also be 6-B"
 
So uh quick question

Super effective attacks obv allow pokemon to effect other much stronger pokemon they would have no busness scaling to otherwise

Would we scale their showings offensively to their resistances?

What I mean is lets say we had a 7-B grass type harm a 6-B water type with a grass type move, would we assume their resistances are 6-B because they scale to the ap of their attacks when super effective

as in would we say "Since this 7-B grass type could harm 6-Bs with super effective moves that means its durability for things it resists I.E ground type moves must also be 6-B"
Well, first off, we'd need indication Super-Effective can increase to that level. Are there consistent showings of it doing so, to affirm it's not an outlier?

There's also the fact that Pokemon can just get stronger through training, especially with a trainer, which could explain the showing.
 
Well, first off, we'd need indication Super-Effective can increase to that level. Are there consistent showings of it doing so, to affirm it's not an outlier?
Yeah I think there was like 3 off the top of my head
There's also the fact that Pokemon can just get stronger through training, especially with a trainer, which could explain the showing.
Typically when this happens (at least in the manga) the weaker pokemon is just established to be far weaker than them normally despite being owned by a trainer
 
Yeah, it's a bit puzzling. Things could also be dismissed as Plot-Induced Stupidity; It had to happen for the sake of the story.

After all, by our tiering system, the notion of say, a Sprigatito defeating a Rhydon seems strange.

A wide range of "comparability".

Perhaps this should be discussed?
 
Yeah, it's a bit puzzling. Things could also be dismissed as Plot-Induced Stupidity; It had to happen for the sake of the story.

After all, by our tiering system, the notion of say, a Sprigatito defeating a Rhydon seems strange.

A wide range of "comparability".

Perhaps this should be discussed?
yeah, i'll try to get scans for all of the examples
 
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