Plus Dark - Izuku Midoriya vs. Kamen Rider Shin

[ZeedKZ]

Shin is having a bad day and Izuku mistakes him for a villain due to his spooky appearance, and decides to clash with this beast.

Both at 8-A
Dark Hero Arc Deku is used, base only.
Main Series Shin is used.
Speed equalized.
SBA.
Location: Tokyo at day.

Deku: 0
Kamen Rider Shin: 0
Inconclusive: 0

 

[Sir_Ovens]

So what can Deku do against dura neg claws?

 

[TheRustyOne]

A fight with Dark Hero Izuku's 8-A state that isn't a stomp because of his High 7-C durability? That's rare to see.

Izuku has 237.32 Tons of TNT of AP, with Fa Jin he can increase his stats to the peak of 8-A. Fa Jin is capable of storing energy up to Tier 6 after all. So a nicely charge Fa Jin attack can one shot here, and of course the boost from Fa Jin enhances his speed to the point where he can blitz people on par with him from over 100 meters away.

Due to Danger Sense and his own Analytical Prediction, he should be able to avoid Shin's attacks and not fall prey to his stealth, if he gets the chance to use it.

So what can Deku do against dura neg claws?

Shin doesn't have any ranged attacks from what I'm seeing. What can he do if Izuku keeps distance and try to restrain him with Blackwhip or snipe with Air Force?

Izuku's LS is higher than 394.5 Tons while Shin's LS seems to be 101.97 Tons, going by his profile. I know it probably won't be easy since his guy seems to have very good senses, perception, instincts, and precognition himself. But Izuku keeping distance and attacking with Air Force/Blackwhip is easier for him overall.

Also, doesn't seem like he can fly either. Although he can jump rather high, not being able to fly means he isn't mobile enough to actually hit Izuku.

Obviously, I'm leaning towards Izuku but I want to hear more about what this guy can do before making any judgements for real.

 

[ZeedKZ]

A fight with Dark Hero Izuku's 8-A state that isn't a stomp because of his High 7-C durability? That's rare to see.

Durability doesn't matter here since Shin is a walking durability negation guy. His vibration spikes (which are everywhere in his body) emit high-frequency vibrations and radiation to cut anything. A mere touch of his could make Fourze (who was 4-A at that moment) scream in pain, and Shin wasn't even trying to hurt him.

Izuku has 237.32 Tons of TNT of AP, with Fa Jin he can increase his stats to the peak of 8-A. Fa Jin is capable of storing energy up to Tier 6 after all. So a nicely charge Fa Jin attack can one shot here, and of course the boost from Fa Jin enhances his speed to the point where he can blitz people on par with him from over 100 meters away.

I've made the match with just base Izuku in mind, no amps other than those from One For All, didn't knew that Fa Jin could stack in any tier so I might restrict that to avoid making it a stomp, although I have to ask if this is his first move though.

Shin doesn't have any ranged attacks from what I'm seeing. What can he do if Izuku keeps distance and try to restrain him with Blackwhip or snipe with Air Force?

Shin could just cut Blackwhip with his dura neg spikes, plus his jump can cover 114-232 meters, his information analysis/ESP/precog will allow him to know Deku's position and the time he attacks as well.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Reminder that Shin can also absorb 75% of the impact from attacks, so if he is hit, he won't take the full yield of Deku's attacks, at least normally.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm aware Izuku's dura is irrelevant...why did you repeat that?

I'm already aware he cannot leave 8-A, for this match up, that's why I said that. Also, you cannot prevent him from going higher into the 8-A Tier however.

You can only restrict abilities when they change Tier. Izuku can still use One For All while 8-A, and you cannot restrict that if you want the match to be added.

He cannot cut Blackwhip forever, why do you assume he'll never be hit not even a single time? I'm aware he can dodge, you're not telling me anything I didn't know.

Considering he absorbs 75% of the impact from attacks, what were you thinking when you assumed Izuku couldn't increase his power?

Izuku's AP would hit him like he was 59.33 Tons of TNT in that case and he has dura negating attacks.

 

[ZeedKZ]

I'm aware Izuku's dura is irrelevant...why did you repeat that?

My bad, just me being sleepy. But better to explain that further then to leave that.

He cannot cut Blackwhip forever, why do you assume he'll never be hit not even a single time? I'm aware he can dodge, you're not telling me anything I didn't know.

I never assumed those things. I'm saying that Shin can avoid Blackwhip and has enough perks to cut if it reaches him.

Considering he absorbs 75% of the impact from attacks, what were you thinking when you assumed Izuku couldn't increase his power?

I also never said he couldn't increase his power, just that I assumed Fa Jin to be a direct 6-A amp at first, but you convinced me.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I never assumed those things. I'm saying that Shin can avoid Blackwhip and has enough perks to cut if it reaches him.

That was sarcasm, my apologies. I should've made that clear instead of vague.

I was aware you didn't say that, I'm just showing why what you said without context sounds ridiculous, because I basically said the same thing.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Eh, I don't think it does, but let's pass that. Either way, how does Fa Jin works in combat? Is this his first move?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Eh, I don't think it does, but let's pass that. Either way, how does Fa Jin works in combat? Is this his first move?

When Izuku does any movement he can store up that Kinetic Energy and release all of it at once for explosive power. Ever attack he launches physically will be stored by Fa Jin, increasing his power until it reaches the peak of 8-A as he cannot go beyond that in this match.

Considering the 75% reduction, Izuku will need Fa Jin to cause any serious damage to Shin at all.

Even with peak 8-A at 999 Tons of TNT, his attacks will only inflict damage equivalent to 249.75 Tons of TNT. Once he uses that energy he needs to build it up again. Although he's shown to be able to store energy in separate limbs, so he can use a Fa Jin attack and still have more energy stored in another limb.

Izuku is a wary fighter and I don't see Shin instantly stomping him the second they engage. Izuku will keep distance to avoid those spikes even if he doesn't know about their dura negating properties. Because he isn't foolish enough to assume he could block them.

Izuku will use Fa Jin if he finds hitting Shin to be too difficult. Although is first move will likely be to try and restrain him with Blackwhip.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Shin can cut out of that since he has spikes on his arms too that have the same vibrating quality as his claws.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Shin can cut out of that since he has spikes on his arms too that have the same vibrating quality as his claws.

Then Izuku will make sure that if he gets does wrap him in Blackwhip, he won't make contact with his spikes/claws so that cannot happen.

Or can he make spikes appear anywhere on his body?

 

[ZeedKZ]

Shin doesn't make them appear, they are always there.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

So Deku has the AP advantage at 237 vs 116? About 2x? With the 75% reduction he hits at 59 tons so about half Shin’s durability while Shin can just dura neg cut him. A somewhat even playing ground.

However, considering Deku can still use OFA, just limited to the 8-A version, Shin isn’t gonna have a good time for long. 8% scales above 5% which is 711 tons and gives him ranged finger flicks with Air Force. Even with 75% reduction, once Deku turns on the jets, he’s hitting Shin with 177 ton attacks, slightly above his dura. At peak Fa Jin he’s hitting a bit over 2x again, which is not insignificant.

Deku crushes in LS by like 3x in base up to 4x with 8%. A single grab with Blackwhip and Shin isn’t escaping. He can cut them away but Deku only needs a moment to land the hits he needs on areas that can’t cut him back. That or grab at the not sharp parts like his neck. Having a dozen or so prehensile tendrils he can spawn from his whole body makes your options pretty vast on where you can grap.

Danger Sense and his intelligence + predictions, as always, keep him well out of trouble. Float as well means Shin is basically never touching him until Deku chooses to go in, and even then he’s getting dodge.

Smokescreen useless as always.

I think best bet from Deku here is sniping with Air Force and analyzing Shin’s movements to land Fa Jin speed amp blitz hits. Shin can predict his muscle movements back (this would not include Blackwhip which moves somewhat faster than Deku), but I don’t think that’s gonna help him when Fa Jin blitzes him before he can move. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Shin, from what I’m seeing, doesn’t have a lot of options to actually hit Deku here that don’t result in him sensing with Danger Sense and moving out of the way the moment Shin goes to attack.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Then Izuku will make sure that if he gets does wrap him in Blackwhip, he won't make contact with his spikes/claws so that cannot happen.

Or can he make spikes appear anywhere on his body?

Just his feet, hands, and arms.

Edit: He can also eat his way through.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Wrap one tendril around his neck, another his waist, another his legs, hop on his back and just starting spamming punches into his head, which conversely charges up Fa Jin for an even harder punch to his head.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

So Deku has the AP advantage at 237 vs 116? About 2x? With the 75% reduction he hits at 59 tons so about half Shin’s durability while Shin can just dura neg cut him. A somewhat even playing ground.

However, considering Deku can still use OFA, just limited to the 8-A version, Shin isn’t gonna have a good time for long. 8% scales above 5% which is 711 tons and gives him ranged finger flicks with Air Force. Even with 75% reduction, once Deku turns on the jets, he’s hitting Shin with 177 ton attacks, slightly above his dura. At peak Fa Jin he’s hitting a bit over 2x again, which is not insignificant.

Deku crushes in LS by like 3x in base up to 4x with 8%. A single grab with Blackwhip and Shin isn’t escaping. He can cut them away but Deku only needs a moment to land the hits he needs on areas that can’t cut him back. That or grab at the not sharp parts like his neck. Having a dozen or so prehensile tendrils he can spawn from his whole body makes your options pretty vast on where you can grap.

Danger Sense and his intelligence + predictions, as always, keep him well out of trouble. Float as well means Shin is basically never touching him until Deku chooses to go in, and even then he’s getting dodge.

Smokescreen useless as always.

I think best bet from Deku here is sniping with Air Force and analyzing Shin’s movements to land Fa Jin speed amp blitz hits. Shin can predict his muscle movements back (this would not include Blackwhip which moves somewhat faster than Deku), but I don’t think that’s gonna help him when Fa Jin blitzes him before he can move. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Shin, from what I’m seeing, doesn’t have a lot of options to actually hit Deku here that don’t result in him sensing with Danger Sense and moving out of the way the moment Shin goes to attack.

Float won't mean much since Shin can leap really high and Air Force can be dodged if Deku is shooting from afar.

Shin is really acrobatic and can jump, roll, and climb his way to Deku if he needs to.

 

[ZeedKZ]

I think best bet from Deku here is sniping with Air Force and analyzing Shin’s movements to land Fa Jin speed amp blitz hits. Shin can predict his muscle movements back (this would not include Blackwhip which moves somewhat faster than Deku), but I don’t think that’s gonna help him when Fa Jin blitzes him before he can move. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Technically, it would include Blackwhip since his precognition also is based on tactile information he obtains, anything from changes in temperature, size, direction, movement, etc. around the environment. Even if Shin cannot move out of the way, he would be able to sense as it wraps around his body. Fa Jin is definitely working though.

Shin, from what I’m seeing, doesn’t have a lot of options to actually hit Deku here that don’t result in him sensing with Danger Sense and moving out of the way the moment Shin goes to attack.

I'd say is mostly due to Shin not having any ranged attacks. He would have to resort to Deku coming closer to him to gut him with his spikes, other than that, he would mostly rely on his senses and regeneration if he is injured.

 

[Shadowslash125]

So Deku has the AP advantage at 237 vs 116? About 2x? With the 75% reduction he hits at 59 tons so about half Shin’s durability while Shin can just dura neg cut him. A somewhat even playing ground.

However, considering Deku can still use OFA, just limited to the 8-A version, Shin isn’t gonna have a good time for long. 8% scales above 5% which is 711 tons and gives him ranged finger flicks with Air Force. Even with 75% reduction, once Deku turns on the jets, he’s hitting Shin with 177 ton attacks, slightly above his dura. At peak Fa Jin he’s hitting a bit over 2x again, which is not insignificant.

Attacks slightly above Shin's durability won't really hurt him too much, seeing as he has low-mid regen to slightly circumvent any and all damage coming his way (not to mention the 75% damage reduction). With Fa Jin into the mix, it'd be harder to regenerate but he'd manage.

How much does Fa Jin amp his speed?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Float won't mean much since Shin can leap really high and Air Force can be dodged if Deku is shooting from afar.

Shin is really acrobatic and can jump, roll, and climb his way to Deku if he needs to.

Deku can predict movements to hit you even if you dodge by calculating your trajectory. Also he swings around with Blackwhip so Shin’s mobility is really barebones in comparison to his own. Deku can leap hundreds of meters and do all that as well he just ALSO has the ability to fly and swing like Spider-Man.

Coupled with his own analytical prediction that lets him keep up with attacks that can blitz him and just running or jumping at him without good aerial maneuvering isn’t a great idea.

Technically, it would include Blackwhip since his precognition also is based on tactile information he obtains, anything from changes in temperature, size, direction, movement, etc. around the environment. Even if Shin cannot move out of the way, he would be able to sense as it wraps around his body. Fa Jin is definitely working though.

I'd say is mostly due to Shin not having any ranged attacks. He would have to resort to Deku coming closer to him to gut him with his spikes, other than that, he would mostly rely on his senses and regeneration if he is injured.

Biggest thing with Blackwhip is just that Deku can spawn it whenever he wants from any part of his body with no warning or tell to grab you.

Regen probably the most clutch thing here cause idk its limits. Deku can fight for days though if that counts for anything.

Attacks slightly above Shin's durability won't really hurt him too much, seeing as he has low-mid regen to slightly circumvent any and all damage coming his way (not to mention the 75% damage reduction). With Fa Jin into the mix, it'd be harder to regenerate but he'd manage.

How much does Fa Jin amp his speed?

Fa Jin is your standard anime “I blitzed the person that was faster than me” level amp.

Lady Nagant’s most high velocity bullet got freeze framed and outsped horrifically by Fa Jin, when her normal bullets blitzed Deku so hard they went through Danger Sense.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Float won't mean much since Shin can leap really high and Air Force can be dodged if Deku is shooting from afar.

Shin is really acrobatic and can jump, roll, and climb his way to Deku if he needs to.

Not having any air mobility makes it pointless to jump at Izuku.

His profile doesn't suggest he can make movements while in midair.

How much does Fa Jin amp his speed?

Blitzes people on par with his speed, even at over hundreds of meters away.

Izuku will probably realize he needs Fa Jin if he notices Air Force not doing any real damage to Shin.

Shin's healing is going to be a major problem. Even with the max Fa Jin allowed, Izuku's attacks will only be around 2x higher than his durability.

How good is Shin's stamina? Feel like this will become a match of endurance.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also, to be clear: any of Deku’s attacks hurt shin regardless of the 75% reduction. Any hit from 8% is gonna feel like Shin punching himself. Regen deals with that, but Fa Jin hits are gonna be literal trucks to his dome. If he gets grabbed and restrained, Deku can just keep him there and win via restraining (or just talk him into a surrender).

 

[ZeedKZ]

Biggest thing with Blackwhip is just that Deku can spawn it whenever he wants from any part of his body with no warning or tell to grab you.

But Shin's precognition is for predicting attacks that he is not expecting. If Deku somehow unleashes the Blackwhip from his chest and arms, and then from his legs, Shin would predict. I'm not saying that Shin can freely dodge them, but he would definitely notice that there are more things coming to his direction.

Regen probably the most clutch thing here cause idk its limits. Deku can fight for days though if that counts for anything.

Fair enough, although Shin could also fight Goushima sustenting wounds at his arms and stomach, and we know if Deku falls under Shin's claws, the damage would be much worse than it was to Fourze. Can Deku sustain injuries at vital points during combat? I know there are instances he could fight even with broken bones though.

Also, to be clear: any of Deku’s attacks hurt shin regardless of the 75% reduction. Any hit from 8% is gonna feel like Shin punching himself. Regen deals with that, but Fa Jin hits are gonna be literal trucks to his dome. If he gets grabbed and restrained, Deku can just keep him there and win via restraining (or just talk him into a surrender).

I don't see Deku restraining him for too long without being slashed by the vibration spikes, whether is he doing physically (which would be definitely a bad idea) or using Blackwhips (which he can slash given his NPI). His best should would be aiming at places not as dangerous, like at his back, part of his shoulders, but how long he would take to figure that out? It also relies a lot on how Shin is caught. Let's say if he uses Fa Jin and then Blackwhip to wrap it around his Shin's waist and chest, but he has to restrain his legs, arms and mouth, but the hard thing to do is avoiding Shin to just tear them off.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah, Shin is just really violent when he fights. He's not afraid to go for the eyes or throat. Talking Shin out of fighting is not really an option here.

I feel like it's pretty even here. Even with better mobility, Deku isn't gonna win if he can't land blows; especially with Shin's precog.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

But Shin's precognition is for predicting attacks that he is not expecting. If Deku somehow unleashes the Blackwhip from his chest and arms, and then from his legs, Shin would predict. I'm not saying that Shin can freely dodge them, but he would definitely notice that there are more things coming to his direction.

Fair enough, although Shin could also fight Goushima sustenting wounds at his arms and stomach, and we know if Deku falls under Shin's claws, the damage would be much worse than it was to Fourze. Can Deku sustain injuries at vital points during combat? I know there are instances he could fight even with broken bones though.

I don't see Deku restraining him for too long without being slashed by the vibration spikes, whether is he doing physically (which would be definitely a bad idea) or using Blackwhips (which he can slash given his NPI). His best should would be aiming at places not as dangerous, like at his back, part of his shoulders, but how long he would take to figure that out? It also relies a lot on how Shin is caught. Let's say if he uses Fa Jin and then Blackwhip to wrap it around his Shin's waist and chest, but he has to restrain his legs, arms and mouth, but the hard thing to do is avoiding Shin to just tear them off.

It’s mostly in close range that Blackwhip coming from anywhere messes people up, as you can be going for a kick from behind him, and suddenly a Blackwhip tendril fires from his back into your chest and grapples you. At the very least, attacks against him are getting fended off by the combination of Blackwhip, danger sense and his intelligence.

Deku can fight with every bone in his body being broken from using 100% Full Cowl with no help. He shrugs off bullet wounds and even if his body is reduced to the point of literally being useless he will just use Blackwhip to move himself. Stamina is truly not an issue here.

For reference: the key being used in this fight is the same key where he kept up one for all and Blackwhip strands to keep himself moving despite untreated wounds for at least a month straight with no sleep.

Deku is a Genius in combat and finds weaknesses near instantly. It won’t even take him a minute into the fight before he knows what areas would be best to restrain Shin from. Just “anywhere without the spikes that can cut Blackwhip”. Also Blackwhip doesn’t actually need NPI you can cut and rip it normally if you’re strong enough (or in this case have dura neg).

Like I said, Deku can spawn as many tendrils as he needs near instantly. He lands a Fa Jin hit and they’re sprouting from him to wrap up Shin in the non sharp areas before the impact is fully done.

Yeah, Shin is just really violent when he fights. He's not afraid to go for the eyes or throat. Talking Shin out of fighting is not really an option here.

I feel like it's pretty even here. Even with better mobility, Deku isn't gonna win if he can't land blows; especially with Shin's precog.

Deku has slightly better defenses because of mobility but that doesn’t mean much when he has to be on offense.

Deku’s win con is probably just Fa Jin blitz into Blackwhip wrap up to keep shin from moving then seeing if he can knock him out with a couple dozen Fa Jin amped smashes to the face. He should be able to fully restrain if he targets the wrists, neck, thighs, waist, ankle

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Honestly just grabbing the neck, wrists and ankles and spreading him out (pause) should be enough to render him unable to hit Deku. Then it’s just hitting him with every state on the map until he gets KO’d.

That or he wins by restraining him for over a day as per standard win rules.

 

[ZeedKZ]

It’s mostly in close range that Blackwhip coming from anywhere messes people up, as you can be going for a kick from behind him, and suddenly a Blackwhip tendril fires from his back into your chest and grapples you. At the very least, attacks against him are getting fended off by the combination of Blackwhip, danger sense and his intelligence.

I'm aware, but Shin's precognition is for letting him know everything that is going on his surroundings. He would definitely detect the Blackwhip even if he can't dodge, he would let his claws and instincts do the job for him.

Deku can fight with every bone in his body being broken from using 100% Full Cowl with no help. He shrugs off bullet wounds and even if his body is reduced to the point of literally being useless he will just use Blackwhip to move himself. Stamina is truly not an issue here.

Yeah, but can he fight while being targeted at every vital point? Shin would not think twice before aiming at his neck, stomach, or eyes. He would have to pull something similar to Shin's own stamina to keep up with injuries.

For reference: the key being used in this fight is the same key where he kept up one for all and Blackwhip strands to keep himself moving despite untreated wounds for at least a month straight with no sleep.

Fair enough.

Deku is a Genius in combat and finds weaknesses near instantly. It won’t even take him a minute into the fight before he knows what areas would be best to restrain Shin from. Just “anywhere without the spikes that can cut Blackwhip”. Also Blackwhip doesn’t actually need NPI you can cut and rip it normally if you’re strong enough (or in this case have dura neg).

It doesn't help if he restrains Shin with Blackwhips around places with no spikes if he can just move his limbs to cut them. The only instance where Shin was "truly restrained" was the ending scene where Shin is mentally and emotionally injured from the death of his pregnant girlfriend, and he intended suicide when he let himself to crash along with that helicopter, but he could pretty much reach his nails to cut the net. Deku would have to slice Shin's arms and legs off if he truly wants to be safe from them.

 

[ZeedKZ]

I think Shin's regeneration and pain endurance would allow him to sustain this match for a long time, he was slashed at both shoulders and stomach by Goushima and kept fighting before he regenerated and is unfazed, he could also sustain a lot of injuries from his first fight with Goushima, which was right after his first transformation which was extremely painful, he had the same dura neg vibration spikes coming out of his skin while having his whole body changed.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I'm aware, but Shin's precognition is for letting him know everything that is going on his surroundings. He would definitely detect the Blackwhip even if he can't dodge, he would let his claws and instincts do the job for him.

Yeah, but can he fight while being targeted at every vital point? Shin would not think twice before aiming at his neck, stomach, or eyes. He would have to pull something similar to Shin's own stamina to keep up with injuries.

Fair enough.

It doesn't help if he restrains Shin with Blackwhips around places with no spikes if he can just move his limbs to cut them. The only instance where Shin was "truly restrained" was the ending scene where Shin is mentally and emotionally injured from the death of his pregnant girlfriend, and he intended suicide when he let himself to crash along with that helicopter, but he could pretty much reach his nails to cut the net. Deku would have to slice Shin's arms and legs off if he truly wants to be safe from them.

He can’t hit every whip at once is the main issue there, especially since it’s going to happen at the same time he’s getting run over by a Fa Jin freight train right to his head or stomach.

He simply won’t get hit in any of those vital areas? But yes Deku can keep fighting while suffering tremendous blood loss and through immense pain. There is literally nothing Shin could do short of cutting off a limb that Deku won’t just bounce back from. And even then Deku will just keep fighting without that limb.

I wouldn’t count that as “restrained.” His arms and legs are basically still allowed a range of movement to hit the thing restraining him. Deku would he targeting his wrists and ankles, specifically removing his ability to even somewhat struggle or get an angle to cut himself free. Deku’s main enemy is a guy who can kill him by touching him, his go to place for Blackwhip is the shoulders and wrists.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Being restraining is being prevented from freedom of movement or action, Shin was restrained because he had no free will of his movements. Shin leaned oN Fourze putting his arms on him and he already felt immense paint, and it also doesn't stop him from tearing through the Blackwhips given his nails are bigger than a ordinary human's. And this is also not stopping Shin from intercepting that move unless he uses Fa Jin first. Plus Shin can still bite Deku even if his arms and legs are out of movement.