Piccolo's Moon-bust Calc

[Antvasima]

Maybe "Possibly 5-A" would be more appropriate?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"At least 5-B, possibly higher" seems like the best choice, to me. Logically, yes, he shouldn't be THAT much weaker than Frieza, but you have to keep in mind that before the DBS flashback scene, even Final Form Frieza didn't go anywhere past 5-A, and I sincerely doubt Toriyama was thinking about the scaling of other characters, especially weaker ones, when that scene was made. That said, due to Captain Ginyu being Frieza's most powerful henchman in the saga, I would have no qualms with a "possibly higher".

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I think what Azzy said is reasonable enough. Though Possibly 5-A would have been good also?

 

[AllanSaiyan]

If Ginyu is close to first form frieza then Possibly 5-A seems more reasonable.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

How 'bout "possibly much higher"? Does that work as well or no?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

I prefer Azathoth's suggestion unless there's actually a quote that mentions Frieza and Ginyu being even remotely comparable.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Fiar enough. Well i'll stick with what Azzy suggested earlier too then.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

In cases like these powerlevel was still linear which would make first form frieza 4.4 times stronger than Ginyu but that's all i have to go on so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I prefer Azathoth's suggestion unless there's actually a quote that mentions Frieza and Ginyu being even remotely comparable.

To my knowledge, there isn't. Frieza is portrayed as so far beyond the rest of his Army that it's absurd.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

In cases like these powerlevel was still linear which would make first form frieza 4.4 times stronger than Ginyu but that's all i have to go on so take this with a grain of salt.

Linear power levels would mean Raditz is only ~442x weaker than Frieza, meaning he'd be large planet level. It would also make farmer with a shotgun Tier 5.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

^Yea thats why i said take it with a grain of salt. Well since there isn't any proof of Ginyu being close to frieza i will have to agree with you aswell on his ratings.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

In cases like these powerlevel was still linear which would make first form frieza 4.4 times stronger than Ginyu but that's all i have to go on so take this with a grain of salt.

Linear power levels don't work as if it did then even the farmer with the shot gun would probably be like a building level character or more anyway i agree with what has been proposed in this thread.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

i still think 5-B is lwo for ginyu

"possibly 5-A" sounds more accurate based on where frieza is

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Azathoth has a good point. Ginyu was at power level 120000, and 1st form Frieza at 530000. Given that the difference is not linear, I think that "At least 5-B. Possibly higher." might be better after all.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Do you mean "At least 5-B, possibly higher"? "At least 5-A is higher than what anyone has said.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Sorry. Head glitch. I am tired.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Completely understandable, man.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

but then there will be a huge gap between ginyu and frieza

i think ginyu force as of now at "at least 5-B" is ok

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

There will be a huge gap between Ginyu and Frieza, either way. This is why backwards scaling can cause so many problems, especially when the feat comes from decades later.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I just checked the Attack Potency chart, and 5-B's upper boundary is only 47x higher than the lower boundary, whereas 5-A's upper boundary is 19690x higher than the lower boundary. If Vegeta at power level 24000 was 5-B, and Frieza at power level 530000 was High 5-A, I think that placing Ginyu, at 120000, in the lower regions of regular 5-A seems reasonable.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Well, I just checked the Attack Potency chart, and 5-B's upper boundary is only 47x higher than the lower boundary, whereas 5-A's upper boundary is 19690x higher than the lower boundary. If Vegeta at power level 24000 was 5-B, and Frieza at power level 530000 was High 5-A, I think that placing Ginyu, at 120000, in the lower regions of regular 5-A seems reasonable.

which is exactly what i think about this issue

ginyu being around the lower region (arbitrarily somewhere below mid point) and not higher region of 5-A

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I would be fine with it assuming it is "Possibly 5-A" or "5-A at most", since even considering Vegeta's Zenkai boosts throughout the saga, there isn't really anything which would point to Ginyu being THAT much more powerful that Saiyan Saga Vegeta (as in >47x). He definitely could be 5-A, and it is fine to list it, but it should be made clear that it isn't a certainty, as unlike with Frieza, he does not exactly have proper feats or statements to back this up.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I would be fine with it assuming it is "Possibly 5-A" or "5-A at most", since even considering Vegeta's Zenkai boosts throughout the saga, there isn't really anything which would point to Ginyu being THAT much more powerful that Saiyan Saga Vegeta (as in >47x). He definitely could be 5-A, and it is fine to list it, but it should be made clear that it isn't a certainty, as unlike with Frieza, he does not exactly have proper feats or statements to back this up.

yes "possibly 5-A" or "at most 5-A" would work well for ginyu

 

[Antvasima]

"Possibly 5-A" should be an acceptable compromise.

 

[Master_Xar]

The gap between them shouldn't be that big "possibly 5-A" I agree

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Possibly 5-A is the most reasonable IMHO.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Agreed with the Possibly 5-A.

 

[TakatoBlue]

Can we put Vegeta Saiyan Saga at Planet Level / Likely Large Planet Level with Oozaru transformation?

I mean ... Oozaru = 10x power level boost.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Can we put Vegeta Saiyan Saga at Planet Level / Likely Large Planet Level with Oozaru transformation?
I mean ... Oozaru = 10x power level boost.

earth level x 10 = planet level

large planet level > 45 x planet level

 

[LordAizenSama]

I don't know if we even accept the 10x powerlevel for Oozaru for starters.

However if it is he'd be a fair bit more powerful than Captain Ginyu with a PL 180,000.

 

[Antvasima]

If official sources list him at power level 180000, and it is not fan speculation, I suppose that this may be reasonable.

 

[TakatoBlue]

If official sources list him at power level 180000, and it is not fan speculation, I suppose that this may be reasonable.

Vegeta Oozaru 10x statement

Vegeta himself stated that Oozaru transformation gives him a 10x power level boost.


Also, according to Official Power Level Guide, from Daizenshuu ...

Kid Goku power level = 10.

Oozaru Kid Goku power level = 100.


If Vegeta is 18000...

Oozaru Vegeta should have 180000 of PL.


Goku official Power level

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the DBZ power levels are not linear, so we need an official statement about this.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

hold on if the 180,000 PL is canon and legit then he wud be "possibly 5-A"

but if it is not, then no change is neeeded

 

[Antvasima]

Exactly.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

So the powerlevels was kinda useful in this situation but it's still not linear, good to know anyways if everyone agrees with Ginyu being possibly 5-A, i support this as well then.

 

[SomebodyData]

Are you guys sure power levels should be used? Because this puts Great Ape Vegeta at Namek Saga Goku KKx2 and thats a stretch for me. Furthermore, its just a officialy just a 10x boost (From Vegeta quote), and shouldn't get him over 45x stronger.

 

[Cropfist]

I thought power levels weren't used for being invalid.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Are you guys sure power levels should be used? Because this puts Great Ape Vegeta at Namek Saga Goku KKx2 and thats a stretch for me. Furthermore, its just a officialy just a 10x boost (From Vegeta quote), and shouldn't get him over 45x stronger.

if the 180,000 PL thing is actually valid then "possibly 5-A wud apply

if 180,000 is not stated in the manga, then no changes wil be made at all

 

[TakatoBlue]

Like Ant said, Power levels are not a linear thing.

Goku with 10 of PL could ... destroy a car?

By logic we're thinking here, with 1000 PL he would be able to destroy 100 cars. But we know Piccolo with 400+ of PL could destroy the Moon.

So, a 10x power level boost would put Vegeta at Possibly Large Planet level.


Various official power level guides had put Vegeta at 18.000 of power level in base form.

And in DB manga (our first tier canon option in this wiki according to this thread from Lord Kavpeny) he stated that Great Ape form incrases saiyans power in 10 times.

So ... yeah, sounds cleary to me that he have 180,000 of PL.