AlipheeseXIV
He/Him- 355
- 134
This CRT will be split into 2 parts, and is not a continuation per se but directly related to this previous CRT. As the title implies this CRT will focus on the most contentious part of the previous CRT that being the verse specific pages and UES segments. Now I will be frank here, half of the other CRT was...something to say the least. I have no words to describe how confuzzled I am after having to read and reply to some of the things there, but I hope that this time it will be clearer for those who had trouble comprehending what was previously addressed there. I will bring up every major argument used in that CRT that hasn't already been agreed on and answer it here in this one. Lastly, quick note PV = Punishing Virus. If you want the link to check out the tiering based things, please click here.
With that being said, Construct Physiology and the PV are the 2 verse specific pages that need to be added, to start with Lee is the very first Omega Frame with complete immunity to the virus. Which was the only reason he managed to survive in the Hetero Tower for as long as he did, as it has the highest concentration of the PV of anything in the entire story as of the making of this post. This would make dead zones, a complete joke to it in terms of potency. With dead zones being stated to be impossible to enter or inhabit prior to the Omega Frames creation as once the concentration level reaches deadly, long term battles for humans and constructs is impossible with constructs who have been dispatched to dead zones having been abandoned by Babylonia indefinitely as again, they were incapable of rescuing these constructs or humans with their tech at the time. With dead zones being a far superior threat than most Ascendants, who by themselves are already capable of causing molecules around them to be corrupted by the virus, causing instant death, mind deviation and corruption within constructs. Meaning the Omega Frames purification and resistances are vastly superior to both Ascendants and dead zones, instead being similar in potency to the Tower's concentration. As it's confirmed that the tower is formed by a high concentration of PV.
From this, it becomes very clear that the concentration of the Tower directly correlates with the overall potency of the PV and thus the 2 should scale to each other. Since again, the Hetero Tower is constructed from the PV. I want to clarify that I am NOT suggesting that all phenomena related to the PV would scale in the same way. For example, lesser corrupted entities would not possess this level of potency. Instead, my point is that similar levels of concentration should yield comparable results. While this may seem somewhat irrelevant at the moment considering that I already explained the Tower was the current peak for PV concentration, it is crucial for future profiles. Thus I am addressing this here and now, as it is more efficient than bringing it up at a later point.
Universal Energy System
Finally the very last thing is a verse UES, this should also be incredibly easy. Various corrupted entities (who are the only characters in the series capable of manipulating the Punishing Virus) each have shown very blatant UES feats. Such as the Corrupted Sister being able to harness the power of the virus, increasing her speed as one of her abilities. Or a child Luna who increases her speed despite being heavily injured and recently shot multiple times. With Luna also being able to give herself impenetrable defense by manipulating the energy within the PV. Finally, the last example is how Luna who was previously far above any Ascendant, who are far above specialized frames, who are then far above ordinary Constructs, became frailer than an ordinary Construct after she began losing her authority as an Agent. These examples should qualify for a UES, as they not only effortlessly prove a LES, drawing their power from the same exact source, but also prove a NPES.
With that being said, that is the end of this long CRT. Finally, here is the Construct Physiology page and the Punishing Virus page blogs I created which I will put in for submission.
Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:
First the arguments and my counter evidence
"Death Manipulation is the ability to directly induce death in beings, objects or even concepts via supernatural means. This can manifest as the inexplicable death of an individual, the direct cessation of biological functions, dispersal of life force and more, being able to affect anything from plant and animal life to possibly even abstract forces and concepts."
With that out of the way, I don't see how you can argue against Ascendants having DM, since it is not only directly stated that the PV causes cellular breakdown, but it is even further supported by Ascendants such as Lamia being able to have such precision with corruption that she can corrode the literal molecules around her, making constructs drop in seconds. Mind you, she is viewed as the dumbest and weakest Ascendant in the verse who is so incompetent she didn't even know that you were supposed to use the virus in a way that isn't just throwing the energy at people like a railgun (sorry Lamia fans).
My previous point and scan used still stands, it's stated here in chapter 21 that the "language" or "codes" of the virus are hidden somewhere in a higher dimension. While the scan inherently doesn't work well enough to be used as counter evidence, when you add in the fact that it was these exact "languages" and "codes" that allowed Lee to become a higher dimensional being capable of freely manipulating the spacetime-continuum? I believe it should be more than adequate, however even with that. In a recent chapter we got even further supporting evidence that this was in fact info type 2 with it being stated that the PV is multidimensional information. With it also being stated that the virus fills itself with "earth specific information". For even further support, the Virus is referred to as a "memetic" being memetic contamination, with memetics being the principle that Richard Dawkins would later call Universal Darwinism. If you would like to read on that further, click here. This all points to the info manipulation in question being type 2.
As for this, as stated in the previous thread. Dimensional Manipulation doesn't specifically require being able to convert an entity from 3D to 2D, it is the simple act of being able to manipulate dimensions that aren't just limited to 3D as stated on the page. Now, I saw a later argument that simply being able to manipulate a dimension other than a 3D one would just grant limited dimensional manipulation. Which, I have no problems with. The term "handle higher or lower dimensions" is a bit vague, so I can agree with that being the case.
This is an odd argument, since the scan presented directly states that it's referring to the "language" or "code" of the virus not simply affecting logic circuits of mechanoids? So I have no clue how you came to that conclusion but it's already stated in the scan to be pointing towards the origin of knowledge itself, which would be type 1 by definition.
The EE was changed to mind manip, so there is no need for further discussion on that. However, Death Manipulation is another matter. As stated verbatim on the page,
"Death Manipulation is the ability to directly induce death in beings, objects or even concepts via supernatural means. This can manifest as the inexplicable death of an individual, the direct cessation of biological functions, dispersal of life force and more, being able to affect anything from plant and animal life to possibly even abstract forces and concepts."
With that out of the way, I don't see how you can argue against Ascendants having DM, since it is not only directly stated that the PV causes cellular breakdown, but it is even further supported by Ascendants such as Lamia being able to have such precision with corruption that she can corrode the literal molecules around her, making constructs drop in seconds. Mind you, she is viewed as the dumbest and weakest Ascendant in the verse who is so incompetent she didn't even know that you were supposed to use the virus in a way that isn't just throwing the energy at people like a railgun (sorry Lamia fans).
As stated earlier, the PV has a "language" or "code" that is indecipherable to those who aren't Ascendants. It is the origin of knowledge, and has only been manipulated by higher dimensional beings if you don't include Ascendants. So it would be both Information Analysis and Info manip type 1 with that in mind.
This is false, while you may have been able to assume that with a high level of skepticism. It is not Luna simply analogizing Lamia's new legs to a mermaid's tail, she LITERALLY has a mermaid tail and previously did not have human legs. This is not only clearly seen here where she obviously has a mermaid tail but is also seen here where in her previous frame (before she got Luna's power) her legs were not human, they were mechanical. So no, it was not Luna simply using an analogy.
Whether you like it or not, it is stated to deconstruct matter and beings. Not merely as a byproduct of absorbing life, the scan not only directly states this but another character by the name of Selena was deconstructed and reconstructed within the Red Tide. So it would have to be deconstruction.
The type 2 information comes from it being an advanced form of the PV which I already proved earlier had info type 2, it works exactly the same and thus has the same base/core abilities.
It is not replays of memories and inducement of illusions, that is one of it's abilities yes but not all of them. It is stated here, that the egg locks onto a future where her mother survives. Something that would not be possible if it was just inducing illusions and replaying memories, further more it is also stated here to be a future simulation made by her wishes. And even stated to be akin to a wish granting device. Which while useless by itself, works well enough once you use the other scans as supporting evidence.
With that being said, Construct Physiology and the PV are the 2 verse specific pages that need to be added, to start with Lee is the very first Omega Frame with complete immunity to the virus. Which was the only reason he managed to survive in the Hetero Tower for as long as he did, as it has the highest concentration of the PV of anything in the entire story as of the making of this post. This would make dead zones, a complete joke to it in terms of potency. With dead zones being stated to be impossible to enter or inhabit prior to the Omega Frames creation as once the concentration level reaches deadly, long term battles for humans and constructs is impossible with constructs who have been dispatched to dead zones having been abandoned by Babylonia indefinitely as again, they were incapable of rescuing these constructs or humans with their tech at the time. With dead zones being a far superior threat than most Ascendants, who by themselves are already capable of causing molecules around them to be corrupted by the virus, causing instant death, mind deviation and corruption within constructs. Meaning the Omega Frames purification and resistances are vastly superior to both Ascendants and dead zones, instead being similar in potency to the Tower's concentration. As it's confirmed that the tower is formed by a high concentration of PV.
From this, it becomes very clear that the concentration of the Tower directly correlates with the overall potency of the PV and thus the 2 should scale to each other. Since again, the Hetero Tower is constructed from the PV. I want to clarify that I am NOT suggesting that all phenomena related to the PV would scale in the same way. For example, lesser corrupted entities would not possess this level of potency. Instead, my point is that similar levels of concentration should yield comparable results. While this may seem somewhat irrelevant at the moment considering that I already explained the Tower was the current peak for PV concentration, it is crucial for future profiles. Thus I am addressing this here and now, as it is more efficient than bringing it up at a later point.
Universal Energy System
Finally the very last thing is a verse UES, this should also be incredibly easy. Various corrupted entities (who are the only characters in the series capable of manipulating the Punishing Virus) each have shown very blatant UES feats. Such as the Corrupted Sister being able to harness the power of the virus, increasing her speed as one of her abilities. Or a child Luna who increases her speed despite being heavily injured and recently shot multiple times. With Luna also being able to give herself impenetrable defense by manipulating the energy within the PV. Finally, the last example is how Luna who was previously far above any Ascendant, who are far above specialized frames, who are then far above ordinary Constructs, became frailer than an ordinary Construct after she began losing her authority as an Agent. These examples should qualify for a UES, as they not only effortlessly prove a LES, drawing their power from the same exact source, but also prove a NPES.
With that being said, that is the end of this long CRT. Finally, here is the Construct Physiology page and the Punishing Virus page blogs I created which I will put in for submission.
Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:
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