Perpendicular Time Travel, in the case of Sailor Pluto

[Qawsedf234]

You keep coming back to this even though I have already disproven this and showed that the they used time travel to get there

I keep coming back on this because this it's the rule that's currently in place. A timeless void is explicitly not evidence for temporal axis. Either its truly timeless and lacks a time axis entirely or it's not actually timeless meaning its just a single direction.

To quote it again

Unless they cotradict themselves, these realms should not have a time dimension at all, with change in them happening according to other principles. If they, on the other hand, do contradict themselves, the statement of them not having regular time would inherently not be reliable, making the idea equally unusable.

It's not evidence.

I am taking about the direction that leads to the void.

It's a void, meaning there's no direction to it at all, as it lacks anything. It's why I called it dimensional travel. The best case situation is that time ends and they travel to the end of time, which leads to the void. But that still wouldn't give you two axis.

Can you give your opinion on this statement "In order to travel to direction that is neither to the past or to the future, a secondary axis must be needed."

No, to travel to a place that has no temporal axis you have to use a different means of travel. Since if it lacks time you can't use time to get there.

You haven't once actually spoken on it at all

To my knowledge it does not. It just requires a void lacking time to exist and that has nothing to do with multiple temporal dimensions.

 

[Makunoichi]

In order to travel to direction that is neither to the past or to the future, a secondary axis must be needed.

No, to travel to a place that has no temporal axis you have to use a different means of travel. Since if it lacks time you can't use time to get there.

Arent both of you right in this part.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Arent both of you right in this part.

The OP is arguing a second temporal axis is needed. I'm arguing that another method of travel unrelated to time is needed.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I'm arguing that another method of travel unrelated to time is needed.

The story says time travel was the method used.

No, to travel to a place that has no temporal axis you have to use a different means of travel. Since if it lacks time you can't use time to get there.

You've contradicted yourself. Here you say:

It's a void, meaning there's no direction to it at all, as it lacks anything. It's why I called it dimensional travel.

If it is impossible to time travel to timeless area, then it should be impossible to dimensional travel to a void since it has no direction. Can you explain why dimensional travel is okay for dimensional-less voids but time travel isn't okay for timeless voids?

Either its truly timeless and lacks a time axis entirely or it's not actually timeless meaning its just a single direction.

Can you explain the reasoning why you assume that if its not actually timeless it has to be the same direction as future and past? Why can't it be a different direction?

 

[Qawsedf234]

You've contradicted yourself. Here you say:

I didn't write timeless void, since I never claimed the void lacked spatial characteristics. I thought that would be implied by our discussion.

The space lacks a temporal dimension rather than a physical one. I haven't claimed otherwise. In the quote you picked out I was specifically talking about temporal travel anyways.

Can you explain the reasoning why you assume that if its not actually timeless it has to be the same direction as future and past? Why can't it be a different direction?

Because they used time travel to get there in that case. Which can be accomplished with one direction.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I didn't write timeless void, since I never claimed the void lacked spatial characteristics. I thought that would be implied by our discussion.

You said, "It's a void, meaning there's no direction to it at all" unless you meant specifically time dimensions then that's fair.

Because they used time travel to get there in that case. Which can be accomplished with one direction.

Time travel doesn't have to be done in one direction. The story already established that the area is neither in the past or future which then brings back, to the point of, "
In order to travel to direction that is neither to the past or to the future, a secondary axis must be needed".

You can argue that a timeless void isn't really timeless, but you cannot argue that it must exist on the same time axis if the story explicitly states other wise.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Time travel doesn't have to be done in one direction.

It doesn't, but you only need one temporal dimension to time travel.

The story already established that the area is neither in the past or future which then brings back, to the point of, "
In order to travel to direction that is neither to the past or to the future, a secondary axis must be needed".

You also called it a timeless void. Meaning that it doesn't count at all for a temporal dimension.

but you cannot argue that it must exist on the same time axis if the story explicitly states other wise.

Per the FAQ if the timeless void has time, then its also unusable. Since it can then be serviced by one temporal dimension.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It doesn't, but you only need one temporal dimension to time travel.


You also called it a timeless void. Meaning that it doesn't count at all for a temporal dimension.


Per the FAQ if the timeless void has time, then its also unusable. Since it can then be serviced by one temporal dimension.

Okay so let's put the "timeless" aside for now.

If an area was described as being outside of the direction of past to future, not in the past or future, and character time traveled to that area, would a second time axis be required in order to time travel there?

 

[Qawsedf234]

If an area was described as being outside of the direction of past to future, not in the past or future, and character time traveled to that area, would a second time axis be required in order to time travel there?

Maybe? That would be a DT question, though if you can definitively prove that time moves in a different direction it would be two axis. Since in your question they would need to move in a perpendicular direction to get there.

You just can't do it with a void or in Salior Moon however.

 

[Georredannea15]

If an area was described as being outside of the direction of past to future, not in the past or future, and character time traveled to that area, would a second time axis be required in order to time travel there?

I guess... No.

Look at DT's answer to quote 3 here, 2 or more separate timelines or temporal dimensions flowing differently from each other does not give you an extra axis, or is traveling from one timeline or temporal dimension to a different timeline or temporal dimension by time travel or in a different way basically not evidence of an extra temporal axis.

So, in your example, basically a area is located outside of a timeline that flows through the past and the future and you time travel to it, it looks like something similar to what DT is describing here

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Unconfirmed, but other spaces like Wiseman's domain would be affected.

Is it accepted as separate universe by vsbw standards? Is there a defined gap between universes thar is well explained?

I'm asking this because, if there is a well explained explanation for things and it affected other universes. I can see a possibly rating from that.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Is it accepted as separate universe by vsbw standards? Is there a defined gap between universes thar is well explained?

I'm asking this because, if there is a well explained explanation for things and it affected other universes. I can see a possibly rating from that.

Yes. It's own space. And a rating for what?

I guess... No.

Look at DT's answer to quote 3 here, 2 or more separate timelines or temporal dimensions flowing differently from each other does not give you an extra axis, or is traveling from one timeline or temporal dimension to a different timeline or temporal dimension by time travel or in a different way basically not evidence of an extra temporal axis.

So, in your example, basically a area is located outside of a timeline that flows through the past and the future and you time travel to it, it looks like something similar to what DT is describing here

Your link is broken.

Maybe? That would be a DT question, though if you can definitively prove that time moves in a different direction it would be two axis. Since in your question they would need to move in a perpendicular direction to get there.

You just can't do it with a void or in Salior Moon however.

Well Sailor Moon does do it, the FAQ just won't accept it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Your link is broken.

Here you go

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I guess... No.

Look at DT's answer to quote 3 here, 2 or more separate timelines or temporal dimensions flowing differently from each other does not give you an extra axis, or is traveling from one timeline or temporal dimension to a different timeline or temporal dimension by time travel or in a different way basically not evidence of an extra temporal axis.

So, in your example, basically a area is located outside of a timeline that flows through the past and the future and you time travel to it, it looks like something similar to what DT is describing here

Reading the comment now, no it's not similar. The example that DT gave is for two distinct timelines where time moves differently but still flows from past to future. The area in question, there is no proper flow as events in the future and past happen concurrently in its frame of reference and exists outside the past to future direction of the universes.

 

[Georredannea15]

Reading the comment now, no it's not similar. The example that DT gave is for two distinct timelines where time moves differently but still flows from past to future. The area in question, there is no proper flow as events in the future and past happen concurrently in its frame of reference and exists outside the past to future direction of the universes.

This also applies to the two timelines, which are different from each other, and the time travel between them. Or a timeline that exists before another timeline and time traveling to a time that existed before that timeline.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

This also applies to the two timelines, which are different from each other, and the time travel between them.

To be able to time travel between two parallel timelines requires a perpendicular time direction. Just as in order to travel from one line to another, you need a perpendicular dimension to cross over.

 

[Georredannea15]

To be able to time travel between two parallel timelines requires a perpendicular time direction. Just as in order to travel from one line to another, you need a perpendicular dimension to cross over.

As you can see from DT's example, this is not necessarily mandatory.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

As you can see from DT's example, this is not necessarily mandatory.

Because the example is wrong.

 

[Georredannea15]

Because the example is wrong.

The example is not wrong, it is "how it is understood from the outside" that is wrong.

But, mehh... Whatever.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You also called it a timeless void. Meaning that it doesn't count at all for a temporal dimension.

I read through the FAQs and nowhere does it state that the pathway to the timeless dimension must be timeless as well.

Considering your own example here:

If you travel so far forward pr backwards that you end in an area without time,

Here you give the example of traveling so far backward and forward through a singular axis that end up in an area of time. In your example, even though the character used the singular time direction, they still ended up in the timeless zone.

Why is the option of a character using a perpendicular time axis to do the same thing out of question?

Why is this acceptable:



But this is not?:

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Yes. It's own space. And a rating for what?


Your link is broken.


Well Sailor Moon does do it, the FAQ just won't accept it.

Well, in theory it could help prove a higher temporal axis. Assuming separation of universes eith a nice explanation of what the space is between them being like nothingness or a "Different/separate" space

 

[Qawsedf234]

I read through the FAQs and nowhere does it state that the pathway to the timeless dimension must be timeless as well.

If the void is timeless then you can't reach it by timetravel unless you're going to the end of time. Otherwise the void has time in it and it can be functioned by one time axis.

Why is this acceptable

Because a temporal axis doesn't need to be infinite. It can end or start from a point.

But this is not?:

Because you're arguing that time travel is getting you there. Which is the issue. You don't need two temporal dimensions for this to work. You just need one.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Because a temporal axis doesn't need to be infinite. It can end or start from a point.

An axis is the real number line which is infinite. A timeline maybe finite, but the axis is always infinite.

If the void is timeless then you can't reach it by timetravel unless you're going to the end of time. Otherwise the void has time in it and it can be functioned by one time axis.

I'm not following this logic, you can use time travel to reach a void at the end of a timeline, but not time travel to reach a void that is perpendicular to the timeline?

An axis is a direction. This parallel direction is valid but the perpendicular direction isn't? Even though the story establishes that the perpendicular direction exists?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Cosmology Blog for those who asked!

Sailor Moon Cosmology Blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm not following this logic, you can use time travel to reach a void at the end of a timeline, but not time travel to reach a void that is perpendicular to the timeline?

Yes. Because a Void lacks time. If your time has a hard end you can go to that hard end and get thr void.

If the void is outside of your timestream there's no method of time travel that can reach it. As it completely lacks time.

Even though the story establishes that the perpendicular direction exists?

I don't think the story does.