Pennywise vs Slenderman (Redux)

[Black_knight_of_the_darkness]

Because Pennyiwse is the offspring of the crimson king

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

That is patently false.

Like, there's nothing in the books that confirms that. At all.

 

[Xulrev]

Wait so is Pennyiwse stronger than the crimson king

There is no evidence to indicate as such.

As to his being the offspring of the Crimson King, that is never even implied beyond them both being shapeshifting spider-formed eldritch beings. In fact, one could argue the CK is Pennywise if you take a certain phrase in the book Insomnia a certain way (but you really shouldn't, the book is all but non-canon within King's mythos).

Back to the subject: Pennywise simply still wins, Slenderman cannot overcome Pennywise even to incap

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Yes, and said psychic powers were amped during the Ritual.

They literally could not win against Pennywise without engaging it in the Ritual of Chūd and battling its true form will-to-will, and Maturin (and in the second Ritual, Gan) was working through them and granting them the power to do so.

That doesn't refute my point though. My point was more "of course these kids would require an amp to beat someone as haxed as Pennywise, but that doesn't mean other characters will". Wouldn't simply having the means to damage Penny beyond its Regenerationn still be enough to incap? It's not like IT can regen beyond the limit it has shown without dipping into NLF territory.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I realize what your point was. But it seems you missed mine.

"Wouldn't simply having the means to damage Penny beyond its Regenerationn still be enough to incap?" Temporarily, maybe. But unless you somehow manage to critically wound the being's true form to the point that it can't take action (which the kids did, right before they killed the avatar), I'm pretty sure it can just send a new one crashing down from the macroverse.

And even if that were a thing, Slendy doesn't seem to have much that can "damage Penny beyond its Regenerationn". From what I can tell, they're close to even in terms of AP, and none of Slendy's hax aside from (extremely vague) soul manipulation does that kind of damage on its own.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Ah, I get it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[The_Smashor]

And I assume Slender's Lucius the Eternal-ing won't work?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

You mean "if you kill Slenderman, you become Slenderman"?

I highly doubt that'll work if Pennywise just mindhaxes him or drives him insane. The former could either incap or just have him kill himself (and there's no elaboration in the Fact Book about whether or not "making Slenderman kill himself" counts as part of the "you become Slenderman" thing), and the latter isn't the result of Pennywise even doing anything; it's Slenderman dying because he saw something that was too much for him to bear.

Things like mindhax, perception hax and illusions are also legit in-character moves for the clown. More so than just about every other offensive power it has, honestly.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Does SM have a win condition?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Not a reasonable one, no. The only way he could possibly win is via Pennywise killing him outright and then being forced to become Slenderman, but considering the clown is a lot more likely to screw with him telepathically or drive him insane (and is probably not going to try eating him like it does with human beings), that's a pretty unlikely scenario.

There's soul manipulation also, but that's honestly so vague that there's no way of knowing whether or not it can be used in a fight.

 

[The_Smashor]

Yeah, "Eating Souls", specifically.

I'm guessing Pennywise has mindhax resistance stronger than a normal child's.

Though funnily enough if Slender actually did beat Pennywise, the Deadlights would need a new avatar since Slender passively causes dreams you can never wake from just by seeing him. Even if you win, you ultimately lose.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Considering the being's powers, trying to mind control Pennywise is just going to lead to a telepathic battle between the two. Which isn't going to end well for Slenderman at all, since this is still the same being that's been mindhaxing the entire town of Derry.

 

[The_Smashor]

Would Slender's death whisper work? I don't really see why it wouldn't. Pennywise can't turn into a spider if he dies first.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Refer to my earlier point.

"Wouldn't simply having the means to damage Penny beyond its Regenerationn still be enough to incap?" Temporarily, maybe. But unless you somehow manage to critically wound the being's true form to the point that it can't take action (which the kids did, right before they killed the avatar), I'm pretty sure it can just send a new one crashing down from the macroverse.

Also, it doesn't need to turn into the "Spider" to show you the Deadlights; like I said before, if you have the capacity to see (Slendy's profile outright says that he does) and look into its eyes at any point, you end up seeing the Deadlights.

 

[The_Smashor]

I know. But someone else said that you need to look into Pennywise's eyes for more than a second to understand what your seeing.

Can send a new one and actually sending a new one are very different things. Is there an instance where we see Deadlights send a new Pennywise when the avatar is beaten?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

You realize that other person was me, right?

And I said "any amount of time longer than an instant". The only people who've survived it are people who caught the barest glimpse of Its true form and then looked away immediately. Everyone else who saw the Deadlights died.

The only two instances where the avatar is beaten come after the Losers incap Its true form during the Ritual, so no. But the first time around, its more or less established that the only reason It didn't go right after the kids again is because its true form was hurt extremely badly during the first Ritual. And even then, after Its true form was physically and spiritually broken agai in the second Ritual and the avatar was supposedly killed, It still managed to memory-wipe the Losers after the battle is over, which was the only thing it was really capable of at that point. So I highly doubt that it's just going to let Slendy walk away if the avatar is killed, not unless he somehow hurts its true form the way the Losers did.

 

[The_Smashor]

As.

Well, yeah, it's definately a stomp.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]