Pennywise (IT) VS Jevil (Deltarune) (Heya Georgie!!! VS I CAN DO ANYTHING)

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Pennywise vs Jevil
(Btw I hope this isn’t a stomp lol.)

Rules:
Both are 9-B
Speed is equalized
Battle takes place in Jevil’s cell

Pennywise (Books)

Before the beginning of existence, there was an endlessly vast void known as the Macroverse/Todash Darkness. There, by the hand of The Other, two entities were born; Maturin and The Deadlights. Maturin was a benevolent cosmic force of creation that came in the form of a gigantic turtle, and the...

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Jevil

Jevil is a Darkner from the Card Kingdom. He used to be the court jester, until one day he met a "strange someone" and began to fall into madness. First he started saying things that didn't completely make sense, then he saw the whole world as a "game" and desired to play with everyone by...

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Votes (1-1-0)

Heya Georgie: 1 (DaReaperMan)

I CAN DO ANYTHING:1 (Imaginym)

Sans:

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

9-B Pennywise lacks any justification forits 9-B stats other than this:
Attack Potency: Varies from Wall level (All of its weakest avatars are at the very least capable of ripping humans apart)

Is there a Reference for Common Feats or other generic Calculation that I'm missing here that provides a value? Because if not, we'd have to assume baseline, right? (Does Pennywise have feats of actually ripping humans apart?)

Meanwhile, Jevil scales to this:
Attack Potency: Wall level+ (FINAL CHAOS creates large explosions on impact)

Well.... The link's calculation blog says:
0.00000104603 Kilotons, or 0.001046 tons, Wall level+

Assuming that's Kilotonnes (We use metric; Tons are US tons, AFAIK.) of TNT, that converts to.... 4,376,589.52 joules?

(AFAIK, calling this Wall Level+ is erroneous, given that Wall Level is 15,000 to 20,920,000 joules, making its average 10,467,500 joules, which the yield is below.)

But the calc has no accepting evaluations in the comments. There is GyroNutz's recalculation in the comments, but that uses a different method of measuring (Turbo's lowball from the comments.), & Gyro's method itself has no Evaluation.

Spoiler: Click to read Gyro's recalculation

Imo, the pixel scaling could be slightly better. Not in that it's wrong, but that in the image shown, Kris definitely isn't standing up straight. You'd get a slightly more accurate result if you scaled Kris to something that stayed the same height, say the lamp, and then scaled his soul from there.

Anyway, using Turbo's suggested lowball, height of a 14 year old is 163.8cm.

Then using your method but with slightly adjusted numbers:

163.8 * 16/100 = 26.208cm (SOUL height)

1080/28 * 26.208 = 1010.88cm (Explosion height)

293/28 * 26.208 = 274.248 (Explosion diameter)

1010.88 * (pi*274.248^2) = 238856143cm^3, which has a radius of 0.003849km

(0.003849/0.28)^3 / 2 = 1.299 x 10^-3 tons, which btw is Wall level, not Wall level+

Converting that yield like I did the other, that'd be 5,435,016 joules. Higher, but also not Wall Level+, as I'm sure we all know.


That said, the more match-relevant problem is that if Pennywise doesn't have a calc giving him a value, he scales to baseline 15,000 joules, meaning even using the lower of the 2 unevaluated calcs for the same feat in 1 blog, Jevil's 4,376,589.52 yield, compared to a Baseline for Pennywise of 15,000 means....

....Jevil would be about 291.77x stronger than Pennywise.


The good news for Pennywise is that this Clown is hard to put down.

Spoiler: My analysis of how Pennywise MIGHT be a pain to put down

Pennywise has Regeneration at this level (for reasons/feat unknown to me.):
Low-High: The ability to regenerate from having no solid parts of the body remaining. This can range from a puddle or drop of blood to even a single cell. For robots and machines, this can also include regenerating from a liquid state.

However, Jevil's attacks attack the Soul by default. Does Pennywise have a Soul? Is it present in this match?

Also:
9: Transcendental Immortality: Characters whose true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed.

I don't know what the justification for this is, since it appears to lack any on the profile, so I dunno if this impedes Jevil killing or knocking out or exhausting Pennywise.

Oh, &:

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

So I dunno if that impedes Jevil affecting Pennywise either.

Assuming a one-shot threshold of 7.5x, Jevil is just below 39x ONE-SHOT RANGE. Not ~39x stronger, ~39x how strong he needs to be to One-Shot by our standards. Can that overwhelm Pennywise's Regeneration? Especially since Jevil can, with some of his attacks, make explosions. (Though, he might not realize to do so in time.)


Also, Pennywise's usual tactics might be difficult here; Jevil fights for fun, & is kinda crazy already, so he won't scare easily, & he naturally flies, teleports & makes temporary &/or illusionary copies of himself while attacking with Danmaku, meaning getting eye contact (For Deadlights-based Madness Manipulation.) & pointing at Jevil's actual body (For Disease Manipulation, apparently done by pointing & giving it.) might not be easy, especially with Jevil's notorious swarms of projectiles.


Does Pennywise expend Stamina when regenerating? How does it work? Can he continue Regenerating so while under constant bombardment of a variety of numerous projectiles go after him? Especially when all those projectiles are probably much higher in AP than Pennywise's Durability?

....Heck, does 9-B Pennywise HAVE a Soul present to attack? If not, would Jevil's attacks damage Pennywise's body? Or would Jevil be unable to harm a Pennywise with no Soul present?

Does destroying the Soul or body Pennywise would have for this fight kill, knock out or incapacitate him?


I'm confident Pennywise has achievable win conditions, in spite of the statistical differences (Which has its own problems.) but they're difficult, & there's a bunch of questions that need answering to know how much of a chance these two have against one another.

 

[Imaginym]

Bump

Lol, you bumped while I was typing.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Pennywise throws 1-A madness hax and immortality. GG.

 

[Imaginym]

Pennywise throws 1-A madness hax and immortality. GG.

9-B Pennywise has access to that & leads with it sooner than Jevil can Danmaku his Body &/or Soul into nothing?
Plus, isn't it predisposed to try to feed on fear, & frightened of fearlessness or being mocked? (Jevil being extremely confident ("I can do anything!") & probably being happy about getting to fight means his personality might disturb Pennywise.)

Also, quoting Pennywise's profile:
Weaknesses: It underestimates and scorns humanity, considering them weak and toying with them. It makes mistakes and does illogical things fairly regularly. It is sensitive to psychic energy, so collective belief and courage can overcome it. When It transforms into a shape, it must comply with the laws of that shape. It goes into hibernation for 26-27 years between cycles, and during that time, it is vulnerable to attack.

Underestimates, toys with, & makes mistakes & does illogical things "fairly regularly" according to the profile.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Destroying a 1-A soul, nice NLF. Pennywise's immortality is fully combat-acclible, eventually Jevil is going to get pile driven to the center of the earth with madness manip.

 

[Imaginym]

Destroying a 1-A soul, nice NLF. Pennywise's immortality is fully combat-acclible, eventually Jevil is going to get pile driven to the center of the earth with madness manip.

Pennywise has a 1-A Soul present for the 9-B end of its Manifestation in Derry Key (As opposed to for its True Form Key, which isn't what is being used here?)? Also, if it has that, shouldn't it have Resistance to Soul Manipulation? (Among probably other things.)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Pennywise has a 1-A Soul present for the 9-B end of its Manifestation in Derry Key (As opposed to for its True Form Key, which isn't what is being used here?)? Also, if it has that, shouldn't it have Resistance to Soul Manipulation? (Among probably other things.)

Yes. And even if it wasn't 1-A type 9 immortality that is reliant on its true form key flips Jevil winning right the hell off.

No, just because your soul is 1-A doesn't mean you resist soul manip, it just kinda can't touch your soul cause it's just that many infinites above it.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

So is this one vote for Pennywise and one vote for Jevil lol? Btw like Imaginym said, I didn’t think that Pennywise’s soul was 1-A in his very first 9-B Manifestation of Derry version. I could be wrong tho.

 

[Imaginym]

Yes. And even if it wasn't 1-A type 9 immortality that is reliant on its true form key flips Jevil winning right the hell off.

No, just because your soul is 1-A doesn't mean you resist soul manip, it just kinda can't touch your soul cause it's just that many infinites above it.

Wouldn't this practically mean Pennywise's SOUL isn't present, because, per this definition....

9: Transcendental Immortality: Characters whose true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed.

Per this definition, isn't it the case that Pennywise's True Self (& by extension, said True Self's 1-A Soul.) would not be on the same plane as the Derry Manifestation Pennywise that is fighting here? Ergo, Pennywise would not have a Soul present?

Also, Pennywise's Manifestation in Derry for said Key has a body that can be physically damaged, doesn't it?
(I recall Pennywise getting physically assaulted by regular humans in the movie at least, & while this isn't the book, I imagine similar events occurred there, & IDK how it'd get Low-High Regen if it doesn't have a body that can receive damage to regenerate from anyway.)

Hasn't it also been shown to get scared of opponents that show they're not scared of it? Given that, could Pennywise end up in a mindset to retreat, in theory?

 

[DaReaperMan]

It wouldn't Retreat before trying Madness Manipulation.

 

[Imaginym]

It wouldn't Retreat before trying Madness Manipulation.

Quoting myself from my first post in this thread:
Also, Pennywise's usual tactics might be difficult here; Jevil fights for fun, & is kinda crazy already, so he won't scare easily, & he naturally flies, teleports & makes temporary &/or illusionary copies of himself while attacking with Danmaku, meaning getting eye contact (For Deadlights-based Madness Manipulation.) & pointing at Jevil's actual body (For Disease Manipulation, apparently done by pointing & giving it.) might not be easy, especially with Jevil's notorious swarms of projectiles.

Further on the matter....

Pennywise may fail to make eye contact because Jevil flies, & attacks while constantly making temporary & illusionary clones, & teleports & Danmakus; Jevil may not even be paying attention to Pennywise's face, or Pennywise might focus on a Jevil that's only an illusion. Not to mention stuff that I don't know if it may obstruct view, such as giant carousels, giant falling scythes & explosions.

So between likely CONTINUING to get bombarded by attacks while it tries to use the Deadlights (Which, being as apparently illogic-prone as its Weakness Section claims it is, it may misconstrue the continued attacks despite its active Deadlights with a happy, still-fight-enthused Jevil in view as them not working.), not to mention the question of if it tries to absorb an illusion & nothing happens or there's still a Jevil present.

(& because of Teleportation, Jevil may not be in the position Pennywise expects, which, combined with the illusionary Jevils, might further hinder its ability to realize it isn't eye-contacting the real Jevil, & again, that's if it makes eye contact at all.

So I think there's a reasonable chance it tries Madness Manipulation & fails, just not because of Jevil resisting, but because of Pennywise being in circumstances it could misunderstand. (Especially when it's already against a weirdo happy to fight it & setting off a light show, which may distract it from the actual reasons.)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Pennywise only has to make eye contact with Jevil once, and Jevil wants to actually, you know, take damage to start making after images.

 

[Imaginym]

Pennywise only has to make eye contact with Jevil once,

How long? Also, is my memory wrong, or didn't Pennywise physically hold & force the victim to look when he used the Deadlights? Jevil flies, bobs around & regularly teleports.

and Jevil wants to actually, you know, take damage to start making after images.

3:30 in that video. Despite that being Pacifist (Meaning Jevil was never damaged.), he still ends up making afterimages, despite not taking damage.


Also, for the sake of assumption, what about the Body of Pennywise's Manifestation in Derry & the Key for that form? What if the body it brings for that is destroyed beyond Regeneration? Would it even fight if its body was destroyed beyond Regeneration? Do we know how it would behave for that?

Also, the matter of Stamina?
Stamina: Unknown | Irrelevant

Quoting Pennywise's profile, it seems it would the Key being used here has Stamina, unlike the True Form, albeit, to a supposedly Unknown Capacity. It FEEDS on fear, doesn't it? & it doesn't always go at full sprint, & weakened, it struggles to move, right? Based on that, I'd assume Pennywise does have limits to its Stamina (Since it has likely relevant needs & can be weaker than at other times & need to Sleep.), so what of exhausting it?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Your thinking of movie pennywise.

It just makes another avatar.

 

[Imaginym]

Your thinking of movie pennywise.

For which part(s) of my post?
Is what I mentioned not true for Pennywise (Canon)? If so, how does it differ? Does Canon Pennywise not feed, not get weakened, not get stronger or weaker at times, not need to sleep?
Does Pennywise (Canon) not somehow grab its victim to force them to look?

It just makes another avatar.

Through what means, does it do so with any notable expenditure of Stamina, & in what timeframe?

Also, would it even be able to do so, given this is the Manifestation in Derry key? Its true form is in another plane, & even if we presume it can (& presume the match allows it to do so.), the MiD key only has Low-High Regen, anyway, right? Wouldn't making another Avatar upon your body being destroyed be much higher Regen?


Hopefully I'm not bothering you with all of this. For what it's worth, I've found this to be an interesting & engaging debate so far, & I do very much appreciate your participartion in this!

 

[DaReaperMan]

Canon pennywise just needs to look someone in the eyes for 1-A madness to work. No grabbing, manhandled or anything else required.

Pretty much instantly, and it has limitless stamina in true form.

 

[Imaginym]

Canon pennywise just needs to look someone in the eyes for 1-A madness to work. No grabbing, manhandled or anything else required.

Ah. Forgive my incredulity, but what's the dialogue/text for it doing so for this feat?

Pretty much instantly, and it has limitless stamina in true form.

Basis for this timeframe of Regeneration?

Also, Pennywise (Canon)'s profile has it as having a distinct (Albeit, Unknown) Stamina Key, separate from its True Form's Stamina Key. Also, the True Form's Stamina Key is Irrelevant in more ways than one, lol, this match, due to the True Form Key not being used here.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Bump

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Bump

 

[DaReaperMan]

IT is a very big book and I can't easily go through it and find it.

It's mostly implied that Pennywise would've immediately came back had they not done some convoluted ritual however.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Bump

 

[Psychomaster35]

Jevil is going to get upgraded later, but feel free to keep debating while it lasts

 

[DaReaperMan]

Pennywise was already at a gihugeic AP disadvantage lol

 

[Imaginym]

Pennywise was already at a gihugeic AP disadvantage lol

Did that AP Disadvantage matter that much, considering the Regen? (Well, maybe if Pennywise needs Stamina to Regen.)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Did that AP Disadvantage matter that much, considering the Regen? (Well, maybe if Pennywise needs Stamina to Regen.)

Nope, true form has infinite stamina

 

[Imaginym]

Nope, true form has infinite stamina

But it's not True Form, & the form being used has a Separate Stamina Key, last I checked.

 

[DaReaperMan]

If the avatar is blasted another is being made lol

 

[Imaginym]

If the avatar is blasted another is being made lol

I mean, the MiD's key's Regen is only Regeneration (Low-High), so I question how factual it is that new avatars are being made, especially if the True Form is being excluded.
But even pre-upgrade, Jevil's AP is so much higher, he probably would obliterate Pennywise's body with every hit.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It isn't the true form fighting, but higher-dimensional immortality due to something or another being is allowed, just so happens that Pennywise is reliant on his true form for his type 9 immortality.

 

[Imaginym]

It isn't the true form fighting, but higher-dimensional immortality due to something or another being is allowed, just so happens that Pennywise is reliant on his true form for his type 9 immortality.

I see. Type 9 is kinda weird like that, since it sort of involves a higher key of yourself by necessity, & functionally, Regeneration above what you might have, no?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeh.