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Pegasis Seiya vs Kenshiro

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Ik Seiya is hax and all like atomizing and such which can kill Ken along with higher AP there is just one thing…Seiya has little combat experience comparing to Ken plus Ken can also use Muso Tensei so Seiya can miss (idk if he can hit intangible beings) but also erase him and keep in mind this is Seiya without 7th or 8th sense so he won't be coming back. Ik Seiya can counter Ken's pressure point strikes if he sees it once just he would be incredibly injured by then along with Ken's fighting sense able to go to tensei mode if he felt like its needed. Ken wins like 6-7/10 from where i see
 
What I'm saying is that saying only a higher cosmos negates a hax sounds just as ridiculous as saying higher ki negates hax. Regardless if one of those statements has more evidence than the other.

I know that Seiya being established as able to negate an ability after it's been done to him has happened many times in the series. As has "nothing but light magic can kill Ganon" has been established in Zelda. As has 682 adapting to anything has been in SCP. As has Ryuko constantly gaining brand new powers out of nowhere based on who she's fighting in Kill la Kill. As has Pre-Crisis Superman making new abilities on the spot in his comics. As has Saitama one shotting anything that stands before him in One Punch Man.

These are all in verse mechanics. We cannot assume any of these people immediately defeat, evolve to, etc. just because they constantly do so in their series. That's why NLF was coined in the first place. Seiya can't just negate a hax he has never show capable of handling. Even if the user has a lower AP than him. Which since when has AP ever really been a factor in stat negating hax?

And I know you might say "Seiya does it better" or "Seiya does it different" than any of my examples. Seiya may be more haxed than these people yes. But the concept I'm applying to them still remains true in him.
 
@Red

Seiya can easily hit intangible beings.

My point is that Kenny's Pressure Points would work since their effect is vaporization, and since Kenny is x20 times weaker than Seiya at a generous minimum, his vaporization attacks would have 0 effect.

If you wanna affect Seiya via Durability Bypassing ,you better step up your game to Atomic Annihilation, or at least be stronger.
 
"What I'm saying is that saying only a higher cosmos negates a hax sounds just as ridiculous as saying higher ki negates hax. Regardless if one of those statements has more evidence than the other."

Energy is energy. Perhaps you didn't quite get it since I use cosmos, but as I've explained it twice, by that I mean higher AP / Speed. A higher energy output.
 
Muso Tensei and Sorya Tenma is pretty much erasure existence so Ken could use that like i said while its not his first train of thoughts his fighting sense would allow him to feel like something is wrong so he'll most likely dodge to not get hit
 
Ki is basically Dragon Ball's equivalent to energy. I'm sorry but with all due respect the same way people say "oh this won't work on Goku because Goku is stronger" seems to be the way you're using this cosmos thing.
 
@Aizen

@Kuul

Just because you don't know shit about Saint Seiya.

You guys' main arguments revolve around Vaporization, something that would never work on Seiya. And intangibility, something that Seiya can counter.

So votes centered on that doesn't count.
 
Seiya can easily hit intangible beings.

What level of intangiblity, Kens intangiblity involves him becoming nothingness itself, you'd need to counter intangiblity that attacks nothingness aka a void.

My point is that Kenny's Pressure Points would work since their effect is vaporization, and since Kenny is x20 times weaker than Seiya at a generous minimum, his vaporization attacks would have 0 effect.

No that is not the same thing, how is that the same thing in any conceivable way. It doesn't matter Pegasus is a little stronger, cause seiya pressure points are still legit there and can be activated with a simple touch from any part of his body. He's not vaporizing anything, he's legit making seiya's own body explode from within.

If you wanna affect Seiya via Durability Bypassing ,you better step up your game to Atomic Annihilation, or at least be stronger.

Bruh, Existence erasure>>>atomic anhillation.
 
Yours is based off NLF as others said.

Also Kenshiros intangibility is nothingness. He is nothing. And he can remove pegasus seiya from existance, so I've been told.
 
@Grudge

Seiya would simply not explode due to his resistance to stuff like atomization. And Seiya's higher cosmos would negate that shit.

Not to mention localized High Regenerationn through Cosmos burning. Rebinding your own atoms in place. Works even in vital organs like your heart.

And as Red mentioned, Muso Tensei isn't even Kenny's first move which he'd use in-character. One punch from Seiya and he's down. You're arguing that he wouldn't be hit once.
 
LordAizenSama said:
Yours is based off NLF as others said.
Also Kenshiros intangibility is nothingness. He is nothing. And he can remove pegasus seiya from existance, so I've been told.
Click to expand...
I proved that it isn't NLF in the first ******* post I brought it up. Stay mad.
 
@Matt Like I said I'm not giving a vote within the thread. And I obviously have absolutely no hard feelings at all and still consider you a good friend. I just personally and respectfully disagree that it can be said that Seiya negates a power he has never encountered due to his powers. That's all I really have to say at this point.
 
@Ryu

My argument centered on Seiya negating Pressure Points has **** all to do with his Reactive Evolution.

It has to do with things that provoke cellular vaporization wouldn't affect him. He can tank Atomic Annihilation-based attacks. Puny vaporization wouldn't cut it.
 
@Ryu If that's true then what's the point of him or anyone even having reactive evolution if the only thing he can evolve to counter are things he's encountered in the past and has already evolved to counter?

Not voting either btw just giving my two cents
 
@Matt I'm not denying that Seiya could win or would negate Ken's powers based on other things. I just disagree with the Reactive Evolution thing is all.

@WB Adapting to one's fighting style at the very least. Adapting to things logically less than what they have countered before. Adapting to things slightly greater than they have but to a reasonable degree. Reactive Evolution is difficult because it's very prone to NLF and it's difficult to set down that limit. But there needs to be a limit someone. We can't have crap like Senketsu gaining Concept Manipulation happening in threads.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Ryu If that's true then what's the point of him even having reactive evolution if the only thing he can evolve to counter are things he's encountered in the past and has already evolved to counter?
Not voting either btw just giving my two cents
Click to expand...
Basically how it goes with these things is: You look at what the character has shown capable of evolving to. You look at how the power is explained. And then you look at the enemy's attack.

In this case, Kenny's vaporization abilities are shit-tier compared to the stuff Seiya's faced.
 
Also.

"Lol Void"

Seiya's will is such that he resisted being erased by this guy's sword for over 16 years while catatonic.

The only thing Seiya needs to do to endure Muso Tensei is clench his fist, burn his cosmos, scream and DETERMINATION really hard
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I proved that it isn't NLF in the first ******* post I brought it up. Stay mad.
Click to expand...


Matthew Schroeder said:
I would kindly appreciate if you weren't smug like that. That indicates anger and a lack of arguments.
Click to expand...
hmm..
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The only thing Seiya needs to do to endure Muso Tensei is clench his fist, burn his cosmos, scream and DETERMINATION really hard
Click to expand...
NLF. Again.

Isn't this why Tivanenk was banned? Wanking Characters and being aggressive and childish refusing to admit wrong?
 
@Matt being immune to atomic anihilation does not mean he cannot explode and die. I don't know how you even correlate from that.


Cellular vaporization was already dropped and now your apperantly saying because he's resistant to atomic anhillation he cannot explode is pretty damn ridiculous. Being stronger does not mean he's immune to the pressure point ability, you are literally applying abilities that don't work in this situation. That's straight up a [false analogy.]

Also.

"Lol Void"

Seiya's will is such that he resisted being erased by this guy's sword for over 16 years while catatonic.

The only thing Seiya needs to do to endure Muso Tensei is clench his fist, burn his cosmos, scream and DETERMINATION really hard

Uh you do know we are using. like IDK BOS seiya here, are you saying he was island level all the way up to hades.
 
@Aizen

Not a NLF if he has shown enduring the Void Manipulation of much higher beings.

Also nice work advocating for me being banned in public.

@Grudge

No, but Catatonic Seiya in a wheelchair sure isn't High 3-A either.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
@Aizen Also nice work advocating for me being banned in public.
Click to expand...
I didnt say that, you did. I didnt expect to be told that from the person who wanted A6colute banned in the rule violation thread.
 
LordAizenSama said:
I didnt say that, you did. I didnt expect to be tild that from the person who wanted A6colute banned in the rule violation thread.
Click to expand...
No, you pretty transparently did.

And isn't it a little creepy to be stalking what others did months ago?

Regardless, I would kindly ask for you to stop being aggressive and mocking against me in public. As we both know, such behavior against staff is prohibitted by the rules.
 
@Grudge

No, but Catatonic Seiya in a wheelchair sure isn't High 3-A either.

Matt his AP has literally NOTHING to do with his abilities in first chapters m8. Stick to powers and abilities given to him up until his 4-A tier.
 

Say's you who screenshots convos of people from months ago you do not like, and make a collage to try get them banned. Your "Silver bullet" right?


As for the second part:

 
@Aizen

Once again, I would appreciate you drop the transparent hatred. You're so angry you couldn't even properly quote the post.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Basic Willpower and Character Determination, as well as Seiya's potential has nothing to do with abilities.
Click to expand...
Please don't tell me you are using the power of determination as an argument. Guess nakama power wins any debate now.
 
Grudgeman1706 said:
Please don't tell me you are using the power of determination as an argument. Guess nakama power wins any debate now.
Click to expand...
It's not Nakama power if it's an in-universe mechanic.

Undertale, Saint Seiya, Gurren Lagann and Pretty Cure all have mechanics where characters can endure shit or increase their power through sheer will.

It's how Seiya went from High 6-A to 4-A, and from 4-A to 3-C, and from 3-C to High 3-A, and from High 3-A to 2-C.

All these instances happened through sher willpower.
 
@matt again, NAKAMA POWER Does the exact same shit, Natsu meets an new villain, villain kicks his ass and is superior in every way. Natsu uses nakama power and beats him up.

The fact you list of verses that use determination as a way to get stronger just soldifies that the power of will and determination is a trope in manga. Regardless of how Seiya evolved. You are too only suppose to argue the abilities Seiya has while he was in 6-C form, nothing higher m8.
 
Except NAKAMA Power isn't explained In-Verse.

Cosmos is tied to emotions, determination, will. Seiya jumping from 6-C to 4-A because of his willpower is a possible thing given the mechanics of Cosmos.

You bring up Fairy Tail, but you fail to realize that in Fairy Tail it's just plot, with no explanation to back it up.

In everything I brought up, it's a legitimate power.
 
Actually "Nakama power" is explained very early on in FT especially for Natsu but no one uses it because it generally is a cop out and those dont work well in debates
 
Davidsteel1 said:
Actually "Nakama power" is explained very early on in FT especially for Natsu but no one uses it because it generally is a cop out and those dont work well in debates
Click to expand...
Is it an Energy source with a name? Is it explictly explained to be directly tied to emotions, will, determination over and over? Is the character's power rise always more tied to determination rather than training or new forms? Are new forms unlocked by willpower, even? Do you have numerous examples of characters enduring shit they should have no reason to endure and the answer being "Will"? Does Nasu endure having his soul erased for 16 years while catatonic because his will to live and fight on is just that strong?

If not, then Fairy Tail isn't comparable to Saint Seiya, or Gurrenn Lagann or Undertale.

Saint Seiya has a literal ability where a Saint briefly amps all of his stats to High Heaven due to their will. It's called Miracles, because of their very impossible nature.
 
Like I said, it is explained early on in the series Makarov explains that there magic are directly tie into their emotions and this is then gone into further detail for Natsu whose magic revolves around abusing this fact in particular and was even given a name "Flames of emotion" essentially making it so that the more intense his emotions became so would his magic power. But I'm not here to argue whether Nakama power is legit or not all im trying to do is support Grudges point that simply saying "will power" shouldnt qualify a vote as legitimate
 
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