Overly Cautious Content Revision - Revising Physicals and Powers

[Dargoo_Faust]

While I am still ingesting magic the gathering books to prepare a CRT here I will do Seiya, who I already have all the feats for.

Tl;dr​

Seiya page only has anime feats and powers, is missing feats and powers from the Ixphoria and Corrupted Geabrande Arcs which can be found on his respect thread.

Remove level-based keys, swap it to keys based on light novel arcs.

All stats will be altered, see below.

Unchanged​

Meteor Strike - Calc is probably fine idk. It's actually wack lol, the Light Novel just gives a size for the meteor and it's dozens of meters across. Since profiles here composite anime/manga adaptations from what I remember, the Manga has a much clearer crater size you guys can use, and Seiya claims in the anime that the meteor itself vaporizes on impact so those are probably big hunka numbers waiting to be calced.

Any powers or abilities not listed below.

Physicals​

Strength/Durability​

All current APs are based around the slime calc.

This calc is wack for a number of reasons:

• The crater is caused by Seiya striking the ground, he doesn't vaporize anything. In the Light Novel he is not stated to have vaporized anything nor does he do anything other than impact the ground and do blunt damage to it.
• Even after Seiya deploys heat-based attacks the crater only gets scorched and does not get any deeper.
• Before anyone tries saying this, no, dust coming out when someone craters dirt via physical impact is not evidence of vaporization. Otherwise go upgrade every wall tier whatever who generates dust after a punch to nuke level or something idk.

Without this it's very obviously like, a 9-B or 9-A feat and 99% of the current scaling breaks down since much of it hinges on Mash being > level 15 Seiya, who does this feat. And taking feats from Seiya at a higher level don't present such massively massive upscaling for physicals.

Seiya has other strength feats but they come later on, none of these really approach Tier 7, though:

• This punch from Chaos Machina that makes a large crater.
• Shattering Oxerio's head, Oxerio is a > fifty-meter tall robot who looks like this. Can greatly damage and send back Oxerio's body with specific techniques.
• Shattering a Dragonnewt that was able to survive multiple castings of Meteor Strike - calcing this would probably involve whatever surface area Meteor strike hit the thing with.

Speed​

This calc is wack, very straightforwardly.

• It uses superhuman subsonic reaction time for Chaos Machina with absolutely no reason why. Chaos Machina's speed is listed as subsonic on the wiki for keeping up with Seiya who... blitzes her like a bagillion times in this feat. Right.
  • If it's not very obvious at this point, Seiya's speed can be increased while deploying techniques like Phoenix Drive. If Chaos Machina could keep up with him earlier in the fight his speed while using Phoenix Drive and his speed normally are two different things.
• It uses angsizing for getting Chaos Machina's size, which is notoriously unreliable, when you can literally just pixel scale her to Seiya while they're standing next to each other.
• There is a much cleaner illustration of the feat in the light novel compared to the really crusty anime screenshot used in the calc.

That said, Seiya has other, better speed feats.

• While doubling is maximum stats, Seiya is faster than Beel Bub. Beel Bub can dodge and weave around arrows that move faster than sound.

This is probably faster than Seiya's current speed, especially since Seiya can increase his speed even further with Berserk and through stealing speed-enhancing skills. Seems calc-worthy, someone else can do that, I propose to keep Seiya's speed statistic the same, just replace the justification with this feat. People who do not scale to Seiya should be replaced with Unknown for the time being.

Powers​

Yeah he's missing a lot. There's nothing from the light novels on his profile page.

Gaeabrande Arc​

Obviously has the least stuff missing since this arc is covered in the anime. That said, there's some small stuff missing:

• Causality Manipulation: Vallhalla Gate manipulates causality to place the target inside of the gate before the gate appears/opens.
• Non-Physical Interaction: His fire magic works on incorporeal ghosts and spirits that would otherwise necessitate him to use Ghost Buster to physically hit.
• Mind Manipulation: Seiya can use hypnosis to make Dragonnewts more suggestible, although it's not proper mind control.
• Smoke Manipulation: He has smoke bombs.
• Enhanced Senses: He has a better range of hearing than regular humans.
• Resistance to Madness Manipulation: He breaks out of entering a state that was supposed to put him into a mindless berserker rage that would let him be controlled by some god, then proceeds to use that technique with no loss of mental efficiency over and over again later, see Ixphoria Arc.
• Stealth Mastery: He can pull thousands of hair strands out of a person's head while they're sleeping.

Ixphoria Arc​

Yeah this is where the weird shit starts coming in.

• He can't fly (but he jump good). He's also limited to one class/skillset at a time - the one he primarily used in Gaeabrande was Fire Spellsword.
• Later on he learns to just switch between these classesto access whatever he needs at a given time.
  • idk what to call this powerwise, he gets new clothing/equipment whenever switching classes.
• Buttfuckload of Earth Manipulation. Just read the RT, actually going over all of it again would just be a pain.
  • BFR via Endless Fall, it lets him make it so that corpses noclip through the ground until they reach the gravitational center of the planet. Later on he can do this vs. living enemies.
• Explosion Manipulation: Can turn various earth constructs into bombs.
• IDK what to call this: He can share his senses with constructs he makes out of earth like his earth serpents.
• Enhanced Senses/Limited Intangibility: Clear ceiling+ Ground penetration let his projectiles noclip through the earth, and let him view through earth as if it wasn't there.
• Electricity Manipulation/Wind Manipulation: He learns the relevant magic types in that arc too.
• Shapeshifting: He can alter his form to mimic the size/shape and appearanceof others.
  • Limited Transmutation: he can do it to other people.
• Non-Physical Interaction: Ghost buster lets him hit incorporeal ghosts with his physical attacks.
• Soul Manipulation: He can knock a person's soul out of their body by fist-bonking them. Any of his summons can do it too.
• Power Nullification with Preparation: He can, with a pretty absurd amount of preparation, sever divine buffs/enhancements on an enemy. He can also nullify time-based powers with preparation.
• Age Manipulation/Absorption: With the Granny Rista sword he can absorb Divine Energy, causing normally immortal deities to rapidly age, developing age-related problems like dimension.
• Statistics Amplification: He can double, then triple his physical statistics with Berserk. He gets past the limitations to it later.

Corrupted Gaeabrande Arc​

Loses previous arc skills after a resummon but gets them back like nearly right after.

• Conversion gives him access to Ice Manipulation and Holy Manipulation, he has feats for those but I'm tired and don't want to just copy + paste the RT here.
• Darkness Manipulation: He learns various darkness-related skills. He can summon dark hands on whatever surface he wants which can Corrupt living beings with the mana they carry.
• Curse Manipulation/Disease Manipulation: Learned a curse that is placed by him kissing a woman and having them attack an enemy 66 times. The curse transfers a disease that causes the target to foam at the mouth and die.
• Invisibility: He can make himself or others invisible.
• Power Mimicry: Oh yeah the good shit. Seiya learns to copy skills, magic, and just whatever the ****. This lets him even use powers he fundamentally cannot use otherwise, like healing.
• Regeneration Negation, Power Nullification, Statistics Amplification with Igzazion: He gets a sword at the end of the most recent arc that prevents healing, nullifies skills/magic, and gives the user a massive speed amp. It shuts down attacks that are claimed to be capable of destroying the world.

ok that's it. I haven't used this site in a while so I may have missed stuff, read the respect thread if you want the full picture on this guy.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

This looks good.

 

[Tllmbrg]

This should work

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

• Later on he learns to just switch between these classesto access whatever he needs at a given time.

I think this could be Power Modification?

• IDK what to call this: He can share his senses with constructs he makes out of earth like his earth serpents.

Clairvoyance, at least it seem like that.

The rest seem fine.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I think this could be Power Modification?

I wouldn't be sure - he's not editing his own powers, he's just switching between sets of existing powers he has built up through Ixphoria's magic system.

Maybe it could be listed under weaknesses for that arc.

Clairvoyance, at least it seem like that.

Makes sense, since visual linking is listed there.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I wouldn't be sure - he's not editing his own powers, he's just switching between sets of existing powers he has built up through Ixphoria's magic system.

Maybe it could be listed under weaknesses for that arc.

I mean, he still is changing his class, which grant him certain skills and which can be considered part of his powers, to another class to get a different skillset, so could fall under Power Modification, though maybe list it as Limited/Minor Power Modification (Can change his class) could be better to make clear that is something small.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I mean, he still is changing his class, which grant him certain skills and which can be considered part of his powers, to another class to get a different skillset, so could fall under Power Modification, though maybe list it as Limited/Minor Power Modification (Can change his class) could be better to make clear that is something small.

From the Power Modification page, it says that "It should be noted that users must be able to interfere with the nature of the ability itself for this to be listed in their profile" - Seiya is not changing the nature of the magic system he operates under. Ixphoria's magic system has strict classes that need a skill to switch between, he's not really changing or altering this process.

I'm fine with listing it as Minor Power Modification, but I feel like it would be a lot more efficient to just explain it outright rather than state the power name (which would make some users assume he has the more traditional Power Modification used on the site) and then have to explain it in depth anyways to remove any misconceptions.

 

[Confluctor]

Seems fine

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Epic

I’ll update his profile

 

[Flashlight237]

I was gonna bring that series up myself, but it looks like you beat me to it.

Only a minor defense of the vaporization thing, not anything meant to change anyone's minds, the slime was explicitly shown in the anime to be vaporized.

Though in addition to that, the Light Novel had Seiya use three rounds of Hell's Fire and Maximum Inferno, unlike in the anime where he uses, and I counted, NINE.

The weird thing about a character's stats in this verse is that they're, well, finite. Basically what I'm saying is Seiya would have the same stats at Level 99 in the Gaeabrande Arc as he would in the Exfolia Arc.

The funny thing about Berserk is it gives flat multipliers to every stat, which basically automatically makes Seiya 2x or 3x as powerful as he is normally. According to the wiki, Adenala when using the Divine Order has stats around 850000 according to the wiki (https://cautious-hero.fandom.com/wiki/Adenela ), although the wiki could use better citations. Based on that, Seiya would just need Phase 2 Berserk (which is essentially Kaioken x3) to even out with Adenala.

"IDK what to call this: He can share his senses with constructs he makes out of earth like his earth serpents."

I have made a character for the game Eliatopia named Moonchyllus, who did the same thing except with Logons (tree monsters). According to the wiki, this technique is called "Fissionism." In this case, you basically share your life force with others. I have made an ability proposal on that, but it was rejected since there are too little Fissionism users in spite of a well-known example of Fissionism (Steven Universe had a lot of this going on, even though it's a completely different type of Fissionism).

"Later on he learns to just switch between these classesto access whatever he needs at a given time.

• idk what to call this powerwise, he gets new clothing/equipment whenever switching classes."

Gaining new clothes when changing class would be an example of "Cloth Manipulation." Can't really help you with the equipment, however.

"With the Granny Rista sword he can absorb Divine Energy, causing normally immortal deities to rapidly age, developing age-related problems like dimension"

You mean "dementia," right?

There's also this bit about Type 9 Immortality: https://vsbattles.com/threads/cautious-hero-type-9-immortality.122881/

But I don't think that was ever added in to any of the articles.

For the Exfolia and Corrupted Gaeabrande Arcs, there would definitely need to be separate keys, especially given Seiya basically decided to go in at Level 99 from the get-go there.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I was gonna bring that series up myself, but it looks like you beat me to it.

Only a minor defense of the vaporization thing, not anything meant to change anyone's minds, the slime was explicitly shown in the anime to be vaporized.

Though in addition to that, the Light Novel had Seiya use three rounds of Hell's Fire and Maximum Inferno, unlike in the anime where he uses, and I counted, NINE.

The weird thing about a character's stats in this verse is that they're, well, finite. Basically what I'm saying is Seiya would have the same stats at Level 99 in the Gaeabrande Arc as he would in the Exfolia Arc.

The funny thing about Berserk is it gives flat multipliers to every stat, which basically automatically makes Seiya 2x or 3x as powerful as he is normally. According to the wiki, Adenala when using the Divine Order has stats around 850000 according to the wiki (https://cautious-hero.fandom.com/wiki/Adenela ), although the wiki could use better citations. Based on that, Seiya would just need Phase 2 Berserk (which is essentially Kaioken x3) to even out with Adenala.

"IDK what to call this: He can share his senses with constructs he makes out of earth like his earth serpents."

I have made a character for the game Eliatopia named Moonchyllus, who did the same thing except with Logons (tree monsters). According to the wiki, this technique is called "Fissionism." In this case, you basically share your life force with others. I have made an ability proposal on that, but it was rejected since there are too little Fissionism users in spite of a well-known example of Fissionism (Steven Universe had a lot of this going on, even though it's a completely different type of Fissionism).

"Later on he learns to just switch between these classesto access whatever he needs at a given time.

• idk what to call this powerwise, he gets new clothing/equipment whenever switching classes."

Gaining new clothes when changing class would be an example of "Cloth Manipulation." Can't really help you with the equipment, however.

"With the Granny Rista sword he can absorb Divine Energy, causing normally immortal deities to rapidly age, developing age-related problems like dimension"

You mean "dementia," right?

There's also this bit about Type 9 Immortality: https://vsbattles.com/threads/cautious-hero-type-9-immortality.122881/

But I don't think that was ever added in to any of the articles.

For the Exfolia and Corrupted Gaeabrande Arcs, there would definitely need to be separate keys, especially given Seiya basically decided to go in at Level 99 from the get-go there.

If Fissionism isn't even an ability here then Seiya ain't getting it

 

[Flashlight237]

If Fissionism isn't even an ability here then Seiya ain't getting it

That ain't even a hard rule here. I once had an admin recommend I put in "Solidification" as one of the abilities of a Total Drama character and that was when I asked how her hair spray worked. Solidification isn't an ability on this wiki.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

slime was explicitly shown in the anime to be vaporized.

Not by the sword strike. It's hit by a large™ amount of force and is made of gelatinous goo or whatever. It likely just fell apart into little droplets of liquid (something that happened in the light novel) that were then obliterated even more as he relentlessly attacked it. After that though yeah he vaporized whatever was left of it by repeatedly bombing the remains.

The important thing though is that he didn't vaporize the dirt - I feel like in the anime it's even more clear that it's the force of him hitting the ground with his sword that makes the crater, the heat doesn't actually make the crater any larger - it just burns the ground.

The weird thing about a character's stats in this verse is that they're, well, finite. Basically what I'm saying is Seiya would have the same stats at Level 99 in the Gaeabrande Arc as he would in the Exfolia Arc.

I don't think that's particularly weird (maybe within the context of Isekai?) but yeah Seiya at max level in Gaeabrande and Seiya at max level in Ixphoria basically have the same strength, speed, etc (barring stat boosts like Berserk).

The separated keys are mostly just for powers and abilities, which do drastically change from arc to arc.

You mean "dementia," right?

Can't believe you found out my secret plan to wank Seiya to Tier 2-1 via dimensions. Sad!

Yeah it was a typo lol.

Note that this thread was basically already accepted, it's just that every time I try to use the wiki editor I get tired within like five seconds and put off actually doing it. I basically have the powers section written out but I'm waiting on calcs for filling out his stats.

 

[Flashlight237]

Fair enough. I should get on that when I can.

 

[Danny33wise]

Seems legit

 

[Flashlight237]

Unchanged​

Meteor Strike - Calc is probably fine idk. It's actually wack lol,

Physicals​

Strength/Durability​

All current APs are based around the slime calc.

This calc is wack for a number of reasons

Speed​

This calc is wack, very straightforwardly.

How about some less wack in your life?: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/Revisiting_Some_Overly_Cautious_Calcs

Because I went ahead and revised all the calcs. Now I'm waiting for evaluation.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Okay, I am bumping this. Seiya's profile is still missing powers/feats from over 4 entire volumes of the light novel.

Would rather not repost the entire content revision - this just needs approval of another content mod or two.

The calcs have been redone, although a good amount of these have issues the calc team glossed over:

Continental crust is mostly made out of less dense rocks such as granite. Basing it off granite, granite has an apparent pulverization value

I shall use the violent fragmentation values for granite

Neither of these feats are performed on granite. Chaos Machina and Seiya are breaking through and cratering dirt.

I'm not going to say Building tier Seiya base physicals is this outlandish thing, there's just like, better feats to go off of that I linked in this OP.

 

[Flashlight237]

Okay, I am bumping this. Seiya's profile is still missing powers/feats from over 4 entire volumes of the light novel.

Would rather not repost the entire content revision - this just needs approval of another content mod or two.

The calcs have been redone, although a good amount of these have issues the calc team glossed over:





Neither of these feats are performed on granite. Chaos Machina and Seiya are breaking through and cratering dirt.

I'm not going to say Building tier Seiya base physicals is this outlandish thing, there's just like, better feats to go off of that I linked in this OP.

I dunno, that looks far too rocky to be considered dirt.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I dunno, that looks far too rocky to be considered dirt.

It's dirt in both cases.

In the slime's case, the feat is described in the original source material as taking place on "a grassy field", in specific reference to where Seiya hit it:

At once, magical flames shoot from his hand, scorching the empty space. And in the blink of an eye, the entire grassy field is reduced to ashes.

In the Chaos Machina feat, that's anime-specific (she never really hits Seiya in the novels), but at the same time... it's a dirt road in a fantasy village. No rural town is going to pave their streets in solid, featureless granite.

I think the real issue is how this dirt breaks - and this is just because of an animation quirk, many many isekai and shonen animators draw impacts on dirt very similar to stone when it's still obviously dirt, due to ease of animation or Rule of Cool.

It doesn't mean that the grassy meadow you see Seiya fighting in is actually a giant flat expanse of rock, or the rural towns he fights in pulled Egyptian-level concentrated labor to just pave their streets in one of the hardest to work with materials in the ancient world (granite).

If I remember correctly, compacted dirt doesn't have a compressive strength too far off from some softer rocks on the larger scales, but it's definitely not going to be anywhere close to granite.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bumping this one last time.

I have a thread mod and content mod approval so I'm pretty sure I can at least update the powers section.