OPM minor speed fix + little changes

[MrTayman616]

Mid tiers scales to Iaian's speed(Mach 42). Even though he can react to and deflect Evil Natural Water's water jets, he's shown to be not able to dodge the water jets.

Characters like Darkshine who came out of nowhere to save him from the water jets, Child Emperor who's shown to be able to dodge them etc. Those comparable or superior to them in speed should be upscaling to (Mach 50) High Hypersonic+

The difference is around 1.2x so it should be fine.

This should include: Bang, Bomb, Atomic Samurai, Darkshine, Orochi, Vomited Fuhrer Ugly, Phoenix Man, Carnage Kabuto, Half Monster Garou and more.

There is also Puri Puri Prisoner who has MHS+ reaction speed. He seemingly doesn't get it from reacting to Maiko Plasma's lightning, so it should be removed. If he gets it from reacting to lighting, Nyan should scale to MHS+ as he was able to attack him before he was able to react, accepted in his profile as well.

Metal Knight and Elder Centipete scales to MHS from Genos's beam. It's just Genos's jets and boosters together, it doesn't scale for all of his beams. MHS should be removed and replaced with Iaian's speed(Elder Centipete scales above to Genos's beams and can keep up with Metal Bat which scales to Mach 42.3). Which it also supports the upscaling for Half Monster Garou as he could dodge and run away from Orochi's horns which they were able to defeat Metal Knight before it realized what happened.
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Tatsumaki should upscale from MHS+(Mach 7278) to baseline Sub-Relativistic (Mach 8740.3) or at least "Possibly" as she can easily dodge all of Psykorochi's attacks while heavily holding back. She was holding back to the point of this "Was confident that she could have killed Saitama if she had used more than a touch, even after she used a level of power at least on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi". Her output should affect her speed. The difference is 1.20092058x.

Groribas should achieve possibly Relativistic+ speed as well as Boros. After witnessing how easily Saitama defeated Groribas, their strongest warrior, he attacked Saitama and didn't believe he survived after he hit him. He believed hitting him once would mean he'd win against Saitama, which he knows Saitama is stronger than Groribas to the point of one-shotting him. It shows that Groribas should have been capable of dodging his attacks as Geryuganshoop expects his near light speed rock throwing ability to kill Saitama who can one-shot Groribas when it hits him, their strongest warrior. Boros should be faster than him so it should affect him as well.
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Senior Centipete's durability should be increased to High 7-C+ to possibly 7-A as Murata stated Post Superfight Genos's upgraded attacks are required to kill him. The question was for his "Blasts" and likely the answer as well. so it possibly scales to his cannons.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't agree with the arbitrary upscaling of characters' speeds here. Just because the difference between a calc and another tier is around 1.2x doesn't mean we need to muliply the speed value to reach that point.

 

[MrTayman616]

I don't agree with the arbitrary upscaling of characters' speeds here. Just because the difference between a calc and another tier is around 1.2x doesn't mean we need to muliply the speed value to reach that point.

Metal Knight who should scale to Iaian's speed lost to Orochi's horn's before it knew what happened, meaning he got blitzed. Half monster Garou were able to dodge and run away from them. Darkshine is superior to that Garou, he can reach Iaian out of nowhere to save him from waterjets that Iaian can't dodge. Bang is superior to Darkshine + he fights comparable against a Garou superior to the one that fought against Darkshine. There are characters way faster than Iaian yet all scales to him. I think 1,2x should be fine here.

 

[Kachon123]

I don't agree with the arbitrary upscaling of characters' speeds here. Just because the difference between a calc and another tier is around 1.2x doesn't mean we need to muliply the speed value to reach that point.

I don't think it's fair to say that all the reasoning is arbitrary. Upscaling along with its rules exists for a reason. If the specific cases mentioned in the OP don't qualify, that's a different issue, otherwise, there's no reason to disregard upscaling in general.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think it's fair to say that all the reasoning is arbitrary. Upscaling along with its rules exists for a reason. If the specific cases mentioned in the OP don't qualify, that's a different issue, otherwise, there's no reason to disregard upscaling in general.

Technically I don't think we have any hard rules on upscaling on the wiki, do we? The last attempt to establish rules for them ended in disagreements.

Metal Knight who should scale to Iaian's speed lost to Orochi's horn's before it knew what happened, meaning he got blitzed.

I don't believe there's any specific scaling between Metal Knight and Iaian, is there?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Groribas should achieve possibly Relativistic+

 

[MrTayman616]

I know. I laughed while writing it

 

[MrTayman616]

Technically I don't think we have any hard rules on upscaling on the wiki, do we? The last attempt to establish rules for them ended in disagreements.


I don't believe there's any specific scaling between Metal Knight and Iaian, is there?

Faster than Elder centipete while it was escaping. Elder centipete seemingly scales to Genos's beams and Metal bat.

Metal bat scales to High hypersonic (Mach 42.3)

 

[DavidTPPM]

Mid tiers scales to Iaian's speed(Mach 42). Even though he can react to and deflect Evil Natural Water's water jets, he's shown to be not able to dodge the water jets.

Characters like Darkshine who came out of nowhere to save him from the water jets, Child Emperor who's shown to be able to dodge them etc. Those comparable or superior to them in speed should be upscaling to (Mach 50) High Hypersonic+

Yeah I think I agree the difference is large enough for an upscale. Darkshine basically statued Ian and the beam.

Tatsumaki should upscale from MHS+(Mach 7278) to baseline Sub-Relativistic (Mach 8740.3) or at least "Possibly" as she can easily dodge all of Psykorochi's attacks while heavily holding back. She was holding back to the point of this "Was confident that she could have killed Saitama if she had used more than a touch, even after she used a level of power at least on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi". Her output should affect her speed. The difference is 1.20092058x.

This is more debatable imo. I agree her power output is relative to her speed. The Geryuganshoop interview we use specifically states Tatsumaki can't match his power because her projectiles can't reach the same speed as his without burning up, so that's consistent.

But the touch thing is different case. Tatsumaki is clearly just being overly confident as is usual for her. She literally failed to get out of Saitamas hold before the statement and she's not surprised in the slightest that he tanked the touch. So I don't think that's a good way to establish an upscale.

 

[Kachon123]

Technically I don't think we have any hard rules on upscaling on the wiki, do we? The last attempt to establish rules for them ended in disagreements.

Rules, as in how we typically only allow upscaling in situations where a large stat gap is present, with the difference between the original value and the next tier being ≤1.3x.

 

[MrTayman616]

But the touch thing is different case. Tatsumaki is clearly just being overly confident as is usual for her. She literally failed to get out of Saitamas hold before the statement and she's not surprised in the slightest that he tanked the touch. So I don't think that's a good way to establish an upscale.

She was confident for sure but i don't think it makes it less meaningful as she did it after she saw that he was holding his own against her back in the HQ. Her profile seems to accept it like that as well. In her striking strength part.

 

[DavidTPPM]

She was confident for sure but i don't think it makes it less meaningful as she did it after she saw that he was holding his own against her back in the HQ.

Yeah but again she was probably just overconfident. Even if she wasn't full power I don't think this implies some humongous one shot gap

Her profile seems to accept it like that as well. In her striking strength part.

Then it should be removed fr

 

[MrTayman616]

Yeah but again she was probably just overconfident. Even if she wasn't full power I don't think this implies some humongous one shot gap

Then it should be removed fr

Well that is what's implied based on her statements. Also she increased her output in the fight over and over. I think it should be way higher regardless. She was being extremely casual there, yet at the end of the fight she was using levels of output high enough to make her tired and out of breath.

 

[Raiden38]

Mid tiers scales to Iaian's speed(Mach 42). Even though he can react to and deflect Evil Natural Water's water jets, he's shown to be not able to dodge the water jets.

Characters like Darkshine who came out of nowhere to save him from the water jets, Child Emperor who's shown to be able to dodge them etc. Those comparable or superior to them in speed should be upscaling to (Mach 50) High Hypersonic+

The difference is around 1.2x so it should be fine.

This should include: Bang, Bomb, Atomic Samurai, Darkshine, Orochi, Vomited Fuhrer Ugly, Phoenix Man, Carnage Kabuto, Half Monster Garou and more.

There is also Puri Puri Prisoner who has MHS+ reaction speed. He seemingly doesn't get it from reacting to Maiko Plasma's lightning, so it should be removed. If he gets it from reacting to lighting, Nyan should scale to MHS+ as he was able to attack him before he was able to react, accepted in his profile as well.

Metal Knight and Elder Centipete scales to MHS from Genos's beam. It's just Genos's jets and boosters together, it doesn't scale for all of his beams. MHS should be removed and replaced with Iaian's speed(Elder Centipete scales above to Genos's beams and can keep up with Metal Bat which scales to Mach 42.3). Which it also supports the upscaling for Half Monster Garou as he could dodge and run away from Orochi's horns which they were able to defeat Metal Knight before it realized what happened.
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Tatsumaki should upscale from MHS+(Mach 7278) to baseline Sub-Relativistic (Mach 8740.3) or at least "Possibly" as she can easily dodge all of Psykorochi's attacks while heavily holding back. She was holding back to the point of this "Was confident that she could have killed Saitama if she had used more than a touch, even after she used a level of power at least on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi". Her output should affect her speed. The difference is 1.20092058x.

Groribas should achieve possibly Relativistic+ speed as well as Boros. After witnessing how easily Saitama defeated Groribas, their strongest warrior, he attacked Saitama and didn't believe he survived after he hit him. He believed hitting him once would mean he'd win against Saitama, which he knows Saitama is stronger than Groribas to the point of one-shotting him. It shows that Groribas should have been capable of dodging his attacks as Geryuganshoop expects his near light speed rock throwing ability to kill Saitama who can one-shot Groribas when it hits him, their strongest warrior. Boros should be faster than him so it should affect him as well.
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Senior Centipete's durability should be increased to High 7-C+ to possibly 7-A as Murata stated Post Superfight Genos's upgraded attacks are required to kill him. The question was for his "Blasts" and likely the answer as well. so it possibly scales to his cannons.

I agree with everything a nice upgrade to the speed of this verse is a must

 

[Engine]

Groribas should achieve possibly Relativistic+ speed as well as Boros. After witnessing how easily Saitama defeated Groribas, their strongest warrior, he attacked Saitama and didn't believe he survived after he hit him. He believed hitting him once would mean he'd win against Saitama, which he knows Saitama is stronger than Groribas to the point of one-shotting him. It shows that Groribas should have been capable of dodging his attacks as Geryuganshoop expects his near light speed rock throwing ability to kill Saitama who can one-shot Groribas when it hits him, their strongest warrior. Boros should be faster than him so it should affect him as well.

Eh, reasoning. Groribas and Geryuganshoop didn't spar to see if its true. Plus why not Groribas just tank it. Why dark matter thieves rely on assumption for scaling? it should be listed as possible only..

 

[MrTayman616]

Eh, reasoning. Groribas and Geryuganshoop didn't spar to see if its true. Plus why not Groribas just tank it.

Geryuganshoop expects it to kill Saitama with a single attack. Same Saitama who one shotted Groribas while he was watching. He knows Saitama is strong enough to one shot Groribas yet he expects his attack to one shot him. Also he seemingly expected Saitama to dodge from the very beginning as he's not sure if he'd win against him yet believes his attack will one shot him.

 

[Damage3245]

Geryuganshoop expects it to kill Saitama with a single attack. Same Saitama who one shotted Groribas while he was watching. He knows Saitama is strong enough to one shot Groribas yet he expects his attack to one shot him. Also he seemingly expected Saitama to dodge from the very beginning as he's not sure if he'd win against him yet believes his attack will one shot him.

Maybe Geryuganshoop was just being wildly overconfident. It doesn't mean Groribas is as fast as Geryuganshoop's attacks.

 

[MrTayman616]

Maybe Geryuganshoop was just being wildly overconfident. It doesn't mean Groribas is as fast as Geryuganshoop's attacks.

He's the last person with confidence in the series(not really) + shown to be scared/worried many times. He was very scared/worried and definitely not confident while fighting Saitama. He was worried because of his overwhelming strength which even Melzargard realized it. In the end he was forced to fight since he entered Boros's room.

 

[Napoleondevious]

where does the upscaling from mach 42 to 50 come from? is there a multiplier or a calc at mach 50 ?
wouldnt it just be calculation stacking assuming a certain difference by eyeballing it?

 

[MrTayman616]

where does the upscaling from mach 42 to 50 come from? is there a multiplier or a calc at mach 50 ?
wouldnt it just be calculation stacking assuming a certain difference by eyeballing it?

No. The difference is around 1.2x between the value and the next tier(between 42.3 and 50) and there are characters who's way faster than the character who has this value.

X is mach 42 and A is faster than something that can blitz X and B is even faster than A etc etc. The point is that the difference is large enough for an upscale.

 

[Napoleondevious]

No. The difference is around 1.2x between the value and the next tier(between 42.3 and 50) and there are characters who's way faster than the character who has this value.

X is mach 42 and A is faster than something that can blitz X and B is even faster than A etc etc. The point is that the difference is large enough for an upscale.

why mach 50 ? is this arbitrary because its a round number ? isnt that just like calculation stacking? or we treat 'way faster than' statements as small multipliers ?
"Multipliers come from direct statements instead of being reasoned from something else."

if thats from a calculation/eye balling it, that would fall under calculation stacking i believe, assuming said calculation uses the mach 42 value ofc

 

[MrTayman616]

why mach 50 ? is this arbitrary because its a round number ? isnt that just like calculation stacking? or we treat 'way faster than' statements as small multipliers ?
"Multipliers come from direct statements instead of being reasoned from something else."

if thats from a calculation/eye balling it, that would fall under calculation stacking i believe

It's not a multiplier. Speed values are here. The difference between Mach 42.3 and Mach 50 (they are one tier apart) is around 1.2x. Many character is shown to have a way faster speed than the person who scales to Mach 42.3 (more than speed blitzing). (there are other upscaling situations in the forum, you could search for them if you want. it would explain it better than me :d.)

 

[Napoleondevious]

It's not a multiplier. Speed values are here. The difference between Mach 42.3 and Mach 50 (they are one tier apart) is around 1.2x. Many character is shown to have a way faster speed than the person who scales to Mach 42.3 (more than speed blitzing).

if their difference is 1.2x, then thats a multiplier, it either comes from a statement or a calculation, no statement were given and it seems to be reasoned through the character being significantly faster, which doesnt qualify, and if it is indeed a calculation, it uses the already calculated value, which falls under calculation stacking as said earlier, unless you got another calculation that gets to mach 50.

 

[MrTayman616]

if their difference is 1.2x, then thats a multiplier, it either comes from a statement or a calculation, no statement were given and it seems to be reasoned through the character being significantly faster, which doesnt qualify, and if it is indeed a calculation, it uses the already calculated value, which falls under calculation stacking as said earlier, unless you got another calculation that gets to mach 50.

Put anything "x" and it will sound like a multiplier. Anyway please search other threads for upscaling because i'm not the best person to explain it :d check this thread for example or this or a thread similar to that.

 

[Napoleondevious]

Put anything "x" and it will sound like a multiplier. Anyway please search other threads for upscaling because i'm not the best person to explain it :d check this thread for example or this or a thread similar to that.

youre kinda trying to justify the upscale with this multiplier by showing how small it is, just like the thread you sent me does thats the thing
the two thread you given me seem to also be doing what im reproaching you, unless deku's % is linear in some way, but that doesnt seem to be the reasoning.

i will wait on further responses, theres maybe a consensus that im unaware of on upscaling with feats like that
for now i disagree with upscalings done on random multipliers.

 

[Damage3245]

why mach 50 ? is this arbitrary because its a round number ? isnt that just like calculation stacking? or we treat 'way faster than' statements as small multipliers ?
"Multipliers come from direct statements instead of being reasoned from something else."

if thats from a calculation/eye balling it, that would fall under calculation stacking i believe, assuming said calculation uses the mach 42 value ofc

Yes, it's arbitrary. It's just because it's the next tier.

Not calc stacking though.

 

[Napoleondevious]

Yes, it's arbitrary. It's just because it's the next tier.

Not calc stacking though.

why does it not qualify for calculation stacking, theres no calculation and its basically eyeballing it? whats the reasnoning behind it? seems to not even qualify for multiplier page like i quoted, is there a page talking about this type of scaling?

 

[Damage3245]

Personally I think situations like this are for the "At least" ratings where we can say a character is at least this fast and is likely faster but we can't say precisely how fast.

 

[Da3ggman]

Obviously characters like Darkshine should dog the shit out of Iaian tiers, but I do agree with damage that the 1.2x is a bit arbitrary. However, I think in this case it could be fine with it being shown that Darkshine can run up and body block attacks that Iaian couldn’t even defend, but that’s just me. Neutral, leaning towards agreeing.

I don’t know about the rest of the stuff tho, so count me as neutral for it.

 

[MrTayman616]

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