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Operation: Curse Exorcism (Raiden vs Sukuna)

He has layered prediction?
Like, a **** ton yeah. We def ain't done sorting it all out, hence the outdated shit but by the end he should be something like, 9 layers for MGR? Maybe? I could be missing some steps, I don't recall if anyone in the MG1/2 incidents have any, but ig we'll find out when we get there. But regardless, he has info res listed already even if it's just the barebones acknowledgement.
for frame of reference, next rough drafts prob the boss, mantis and fox as they serve as important foundations fo the big lads, the boss is obviously the first important step in skill slop and CQC and basic general shit, mantis is haxy af but more importatly has actual feats that need calcing, and fox has skill slop, info anal shit, precog, and more, and also creates a stat gap between the solid games and the games prior.
 
No it isn't?
"with Relativistic Reaction Speed"
It sure as hell doesn't say combat speed.

Last I checked I haven't made any JJK CRTs, but that's going to change sooner or later ig.
Time out, I was referring to Raiden. But yeah, that stuff is definitely combat speed. The dude made a whole chant before sticking his hand forward before the EM wave could even close the remaining distance between them. But happy JJK feat determination session, because I am not dealing with that.
This is correct. Best not enter CQC then.
Man, you know that isn't possible though
Have you really not been following the fact that someone, in real time, has been arguing shit like "the chants are rel", which like, according to the blatantly incorrect profile, they'd have to be given he does them in the same window as his alleged 15,000x faster """"""reaction"""""" speed, according to the very feat being calced to begin with?
Sukuna is not using WCS right off the bat though. Only if you give him prior knowledge like you suggested. But then again the dude has that freaky spatial sensing stuff so that is not going to do much.
"Hundreds of Meters with Malevolent Shrine (200m)" - literally the profile?
With MS dude, since when has Sukuna ever started off with MS? But the mere fact that he can and probably could with prior knowledge does make a win con for Sukuna.
You could just read the profile? The profile has links to this?
Range wise, they don't have anything displaying for the range section and I would have to go scouting for feats on his profile. It is easy to miss his best one. And I meant Dismantle. Cleave is the one where Sukuna has to touch you.
That's just straight up false, Shrine does have 200m AOE, Fuga does have a hefty range too, dismantle and cleave also have aight range. Now whether or not Sukuna can keep him out is a different question altogether, but Sukuna has long ranged options.

Shorter, he wouldn't Ninja Run at this distance, he'd jump or something. But why's this matter? Like maybe if you argued FL or Dystopia but why are you arguing his RUN speed as the issue here instead of the actual issues? Sukuna normally could react to him just running.
Fairs.
A funny spatial hax slash?
Nah I was trying to refer to Raiden probably closing the distance before Sukuna could fire off anything. I completely disregarded his reaction speed when I wrote that. I mean even normally he would be able to react to that as you said, so that was just a glitch in the mind.
Then why did you start arguing it, like lil late now you already argued wincons.
Nahh, its not a stomp any more. I changed my mind.
Pochita would be legitimately act as borderline spite, worse case scenario, bonk stick, best case scenario, like 10 methods that instant one shot far beyond his regen.
Sukuna is legitimately a bigger problem because at least he has long range options, Pochita's long range is basically chains and his ass does NOT want to grapple the dude who has a like 20x LS advantage for him before amps or attack with shit that'd get him pulled into ohko range or just have said chains shredded.

It actually is given you've actively argued for Sukuna, ya 180'd thrice and argued for him, and legit on record said Shrine+Cuts wears him down and wins 🗿
also this ain't my fault, bro made the match and then informed chat, I take no responsibility here.

Other character has zero win conditions or can never actually do said win condition, that or their wincon is something they would never do (like Batman straight up sliming a mf). I have SEEN people in this forum, argue shit like Shrine leads or WCS leads, pretty sure I can find you agreeing with them even.
Sukuna has one, according to you he has three, like idk what ya expect from me here you said it 🗿
Alright, I am bought. I am still convinced Domain GGs him though. Thousands of cuts at a time, with the Cleaves adjusting to his durability. He is not just being gored but also being turned into pixie dust. How are you going to convince me that he gets past Domain or even moves in that chaos?
 
Time out, I was referring to Raiden.
And I wasn't, do not change what was actually being talked about and act like I had any hand in it.
But yeah, that stuff is definitely combat speed. The dude made a whole chant before sticking his hand forward before the EM wave could even close the remaining distance between them. But happy JJK feat determination session, because I am not dealing with that.
You're going to have to if you want to treat it like that, what do you expect here?
Man, you know that isn't possible though
How have you lost the plot this badly dude...your own argumentation even. Everything you've argued now is outright incoherent, if it's impossible, Sukuna dies, but you're arguing he wins, while losing, like come on what are you doing?
Sukuna is not using WCS right off the bat though. Only if you give him prior knowledge like you suggested. But then again the dude has that freaky spatial sensing stuff so that is not going to do much.
That is not my problem, it isn't on me to prove Sukuna would win, and you've argued enough to make it not a stomp. It's on you now.
With MS dude, since when has Sukuna ever started off with MS? But the mere fact that he can and probably could with prior knowledge does make a win con for Sukuna.
According to JJK goons? A bunch.
Range wise, they don't have anything displaying for the range section and I would have to go scouting for feats on his profile.
So? Just because the profile is lacking doesn't mean the range isn't there, you don't get to just ignore it.
And yeah? You're supposed to read the profiles before arguing. Of course you're supposed to go scouting? I shouldn't even have to explain this, don't come into a match and start arguing before at least reading them.
It is easy to miss his best one. And I meant Dismantle. Cleave is the one where Sukuna has to touch you.
Again not my problem.
Fairs.

Nah I was trying to refer to Raiden probably closing the distance before Sukuna could fire off anything. I completely disregarded his reaction speed when I wrote that. I mean even normally he would be able to react to that as you said, so that was just a glitch in the mind.
Correct, running. Now FL or Dystopia on the other hand? That falls under what you were worried about.
Nahh, its not a stomp any more. I changed my mind.
"It isn't a stomp" "It's a stomp" "It isn't a stomp" "Nope it's a stomp" "It isn't a stomp"

At this point I'm liable to just outright ignore you, whether or not it's the case, it seems to me you're simply arguing based on whether or not you think Sukuna can get the win, and the instant you think he can't win, you flip to stomp to invalidate it. This is like the fifth post in a row you've flipped back and forth.
But cool, let it be acknowledged it is not a stomp.
Alright, I am bought. I am still convinced Domain GGs him though.
How does he get past speed amp, quantum AOE, and more? Like why aren't you actually tackling how he gets past any of Raiden's shit? How does Raiden get past shrine? He bursts through it, it's not going to kill or damage him enough before he gets in, it's going to struggle to hurt him at all really.
Thousands of cuts at a time, with the Cleaves adjusting to his durability. He is not just being gored but also being turned into pixie dust. How are you going to convince me that he gets past Domain or even moves in that chaos?
Blitz. Multiple revives + absurd type 2. Pixie dust when he only needs to move 10m to win, at 10x speed (thus lowering the amount of times he's even being minor chipped relative to his actions).
The fact his body resists cutting at a quantum level and diffuses to mitigate damage, the fact his innate durability is already like 4x Sukuna's output here and is far higher in RM atop the mitigation+resistance so it literally would be chip damage at most, which is kind of a problem when chip damage isn't going to faze him and he's going to get in; if that's what he resorts to instead of WCS. The fact Raiden can literally do it back? Like, again, funny quantum cuts and quantum AOE waves. The fact Raiden can straight up throw fugas at him or fry him at a distance too? Like there's so much shit, tell me you read the profile seriously? I don't even mean the featbox either, I just mean the basic sections.
 
You're going to have to if you want to treat it like that, what do you expect here?
That is not how it is formatted on the profile, so if we went about it like that the match cannot be added. Regardless, his base speed should be enough given his base speed and Raiden's travel speed.
How have you lost the plot this badly dude...your own argumentation even. Everything you've argued now is outright incoherent, if it's impossible, Sukuna dies, but you're arguing he wins, while losing, like come on what are you doing?
I am fitting the pieces together. I stated a win con for Sukuna. That does not mean I believe it is going to work. That is just me saying "Hey, Sukuna can do this", but I still believe he gets his ass handed to him pretty badly because of the disparity in win cons.
That is not my problem, it isn't on me to prove Sukuna would win, and you've argued enough to make it not a stomp. It's on you now.
You convinced me that it is not a stomp. We have moved past this. If you believe I am team Sukuna that is not the case, because I am just looking at both sides of the table here.
So? Just because the profile is lacking doesn't mean the range isn't there, you don't get to just ignore it.
And yeah? You're supposed to read the profiles before arguing. Of course you're supposed to go scouting? I shouldn't even have to explain this, don't come into a match and start arguing before at least reading them.
I am already familiar with Sukuna's profile and I am asking to be corrected if I did miss an important feat that shows Dismantle covering a higher range. To my knowledge it is still tens of meters.
"It isn't a stomp" "It's a stomp" "It isn't a stomp" "Nope it's a stomp" "It isn't a stomp"

At this point I'm liable to just outright ignore you, whether or not it's the case, it seems to me you're simply arguing based on whether or not you think Sukuna can get the win, and the instant you think he can't win, you flip to stomp to invalidate it. This is like the fifth post in a row you've flipped back and forth.
But cool, let it be acknowledged it is not a stomp.
Our entire conversation up to this point has been me trying to acknowledge why this is not a stomp. We had a discussion and found reasoning that it was not. So when I tell you "hey, we no longer have to argue about this being a stomp or not", I am not flipping back and forth but making a final decision. What you think is not what I am arguing at all. If I acknowledge that Sukuna has a win con, which I have, that is just me attempting to validate the matchup. Do not misstate my intent.
How does he get past speed amp, quantum AOE, and more? Like why aren't you actually tackling how he gets past any of Raiden's shit? How does Raiden get past shrine? He bursts through it, it's not going to kill or damage him enough before he gets in, it's going to struggle to hurt him at all really.

Blitz. Multiple revives + absurd type 2. Pixie dust when he only needs to move 10m to win, at 10x speed (thus lowering the amount of times he's even being minor chipped relative to his actions).
The fact his body resists cutting at a quantum level and diffuses to mitigate damage, the fact his innate durability is already like 4x Sukuna's output here and is far higher in RM atop the mitigation+resistance so it literally would be chip damage at most, which is kind of a problem when chip damage isn't going to faze him and he's going to get in; if that's what he resorts to instead of WCS. The fact Raiden can literally do it back? Like, again, funny quantum cuts and quantum AOE waves. The fact Raiden can straight up throw fugas at him or fry him at a distance too? Like there's so much shit, tell me you read the profile seriously? I don't even mean the featbox either, I just mean the basic sections.
I read the profile. I was just convinced that Cleave adapts to his durability despite the resistance, but because of the durability difference and the resistance I had my doubts. I am well aware that he has that attack reflection ability, which contributed to why I originally did not think this was fair at all. I will vote Raiden FRA for your reasons.
 
That is not how it is formatted on the profile, so if we went about it like that the match cannot be added.
Yes it is, tf are you talking about? If you're talking about Raiden, I wrote that shit myself, it's straight up there.
If you're talking about Sukuna, I literally already quoted it.

Do not make me spend time arguing things that are outright not true.
Regardless, his base speed should be enough given his base speed and Raiden's travel speed.
Raiden's travel speed is equal to his combat speed in RM, there's a very explicit reason why it says MFTL in RM without specifying it's only a single aspect, he is flatout in all aspects, that's just his general speed, there is links and feats on this all throughout the profile as well. There is literally no world you can tell me straight to my face otherwise when I spent like a month making sure all this was there.
I am fitting the pieces together. I stated a win con for Sukuna. That does not mean I believe it is going to work.
You literally stated it was going to work like twice what?
That is just me saying "Hey, Sukuna can do this", but I still believe he gets his ass handed to him pretty badly because of the disparity in win cons.
You LITERALLY said, and "I believe Sukuna still wins-" basically twice.
Like, what does this convey if not that?
You convinced me that it is not a stomp. We have moved past this. If you believe I am team Sukuna that is not the case, because I am just looking at both sides of the table here.
"I am still convinced Domain GGs him though. Thousands of cuts at a time, with the Cleaves adjusting to his durability. He is not just being gored but also being turned into pixie dust. How are you going to convince me that he gets past Domain or even moves in that chaos?" Bro are you not reading your own posts 🗿
I am already familiar with Sukuna's profile and I am asking to be corrected if I did miss an important feat that shows Dismantle covering a higher range. To my knowledge it is still tens of meters.
Tens of meters is still good and long ranged? Also Shrine is 200m.
Our entire conversation up to this point has been me trying to acknowledge why this is not a stomp. We had a discussion and found reasoning that it was not. So when I tell you "hey, we no longer have to argue about this being a stomp or not", I am not flipping back and forth but making a final decision. What you think is not what I am arguing at all. If I acknowledge that Sukuna has a win con, which I have, that is just me attempting to validate the matchup. Do not misstate my intent.
Argue things you think would actually work dude, not shit you don't think won't but just so happen to exist?
I read the profile. I was just convinced that Cleave adapts to his durability despite the resistance, but because of the durability difference and the resistance I had my doubts. I am well aware that he has that attack reflection ability, which contributed to why I originally did not think this was fair at all. I will vote Raiden FRA for your reasons.
You evidently did not given you literally just tried to argue something isn't there when it's written there upwards of ten+ times.
Also, WHAT? Attack reflection? He doesn't have attack reflection wtf are you talking about?
i aint gonna lie but layered prediction sounds like something that absolutely shouldnt be layered. more of a sheer processing power thing or more intelligence
If that was the case, simply being fast would help. In most verses where it's a thing it's a "skill" thing. bar times when there's an actual excuse (like Raiden's muscles being difficult to read).
 
Lad, reminder there's a rule that any speed facet that would normally NOT be faster than the other character, is basically invalidated. Sukuna's, to be blunt, sus af reactions being quicker dont mean a thing in speed equal because normally Raiden's base speed is still like 50x faster, so in speed equal, you just ignore it because it's loopholing the very thing that let's Sukuna NOT get stomped.

Reason why that rule exists, speed equal is there to give the slower dudes a chance, not to rat out a victory by pretending they hold an advantage they don't.
Hmm, do you have the source for this rule?
I've heard two interpretations:

1) When speed is equalized, the slower character's speed amp is not considered a primary factor in winning.
2) Matches where the slower character wins due to speed amp are considered invalid.
 
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Sukuna's relativistic reactions is nonsense, either scale that shit to combat speed or nuke the rating entirely. Raiden FRA
 
Hmm, do you have the source for this rule?
I've heard two interpretations:

1) When speed is equalized, the slower character's speed amp is not considered a primary factor in winning.
2) Matches where the slower character wins due to speed amp are considered invalid.
Here
  • Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.
    • As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.
 
I genuinely think Armstrong is probably a better matchup for Sukuna since you can at least argue that Sukuna can eventually hit him with a World Cutting Slash if he doesn't explode from one of Armstrong's punches, which is at least somewhat likely since he might try and recruit Sukuna to his cause since he would view him as a decent representation of his philosophy.
 
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