One Piece Upgrades

[CinCameron20]

The problem with that is that the meteorite did not fall via natural means. Fujitora utilized his gravity powers to directly pull it from space. People then use the argument that "the crater is too small for it to have fallen Mach 500+" but Fujitora used his gravity powers yet again to drastically slow down the meteorite's falling speed before it connected to the ground:

http://www.***********.net/one-piece/713/8 using his powers to directly pull down a meteorite from seemingly outer space

http://www.***********.net/one-piece/713/10 using his powers to slow down the meteorite and destroy the parts that would have hit him

It simply does not make sense to use normal meteorite falling speeds. While Kkapoios did bring up the force needed to make a meteorite of that size fall at 2x the speed it normally would have, Fujitora has proven that he is fully capable of utilizing his gravity powers to such a degree. He could simultaniously lift buildings in a 44km radius and apply a small island attack all at once. He has access to Large mountain+ lifting capabilities (T class) while still capable of applying casual Small Island feats with his devil fruit as shown during the last couple chapters of the Dressrosa arc:

http://www.***********.net/one-piece/798/12 casually lifting all the rubble all around Dressrosa

http://www.***********.net/one-piece/799/5 applying Ferocious Tiger while still lifting all the rubble several kilometers off the ground.

Fujitora would be capable of pulling a meteorite with such drag force.

 

[CinCameron20]

I updated the calculation using normal meteorite speed values which results in the currently used speed for Doflamingo, but as I keep suggesting, we have to look for a higher meteorite speed value given that Fujitora was still pulling the meteorite down, affecting its speed drastically.

 

[Ugo2001]

Luffy in base is around mach 2k being comparabel to Law in speed imo

 

[CinCameron20]

Where does this speed come from? Do you have a link to a calculation? I'm still trying to debate as to why Doflamingo is MHS+ and the meteorite didn't fall at normal speeds.

 

[Ugo2001]

This calc that was accepted put Fujitora's meteors at just under mach 2k

Law was able to not onyl react to but cut it making him faster than a nearly mach 2k meteor.

Luffy(base) and Law are very close in speed.

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=22542

 

[Ugo2001]

Oh and BTW I agree that doffy is MHS+

 

[CinCameron20]

That calc uses an assumed time frame that isn't necessarily inaccurate, but it would result in Hypersonic fodder marines given that they traveled 400m by the time the meteorite traveled 136.16km (which results in my high end) but I decided to scale the marines below the low tier marines (who are Hypersonic+) and decided that supersonic marines would be fitting given how Soru works and that the marines wouldn't be as helpless as civilians or even close. Still, both resulted in MHS+ for Doflamingo's swiping speed.

 

[Ugo2001]

That's the only problem people have with the calc but In agree

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. You can ask the calculation group to take a look at that calculation as well. If they accept it, we can upgrade Law, Luffy, Doflamingo, and likely other characters.

 

[Alakabamm]

Ant, that's basically the same calc that was posted in the blog before, only that the meteor speed was adjusted to the characters speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I generally do not have the time to check through calculations. Almost all of my energy goes to lots of monitoring work.

 

[Alakabamm]

I understand, just saying that it would be a bit of a waste to get calc members to check that one, because the other calc members would need to check his own in the first place.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Well then, the issue seems to be whether or not we should accept Fujitora accelerating the meteorites beyond standard speed? I vaguely recall that most OBD calculations tend to use standard ablation speed for this type of situation, but may misremember.

 

[Alakabamm]

They may have changed their opinion, although I think their solution was to set Luffy/Doffy's speed at the speed of the meteor for some reason or another

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then. Well, if the OBD, you, and TLT1 accept it, I suppose that our wiki should as well, although given that Kkapoios disagrees, I would prefer if DontTalk, RavenSupreme, and Illuminati478 can take a look as well.

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

@CinCameron20 I still don't see why Hypersonic New World Marines is unacceptable. It makes sense based on all scaling we have.

 

[CinCameron20]

i said it was unlikely and i tend to agree. Coby was Hypersonic+ due to tagging base Luffy, but he knew Soru. Supersonic fodder makes more sense given how Soru is explained to work (using 10+ kicks to the ground at once to propel one's self off the ground at incredible speeds). Still, I'd consider supersonic (Mach 1.6 in my calc) to be a VERY VERY minimal end for marines. They should be faster, but I'm still uncertain about Mach 6.4 using the Mach 1,948 calculation. However, given that the low tier marines range from H+ to HH, it is possible, just not very likely.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Ant

I wouldn't mind using real life meteorite speeds (I did use them on my blog after you asked me to, but we already use the calculation that suggests Mach 637 Doflamingo. I ended up with the same except I didn't calculate his arm speed... only his thread speed), but the level of power shown from Fujitora's gravity makes it impossible to simply assume the meteorite's speed to be simply 72km/s. I don't even agree with the Mach 1,948 meteorite speed simply due to it having an assumed time-frame, but Taco is correct in assuming that the meteorite could not have fallen at slow speeds of 72km/s. I decided to use the marine's travel distance during the time in which the meteorite came into view and hit the ground. Using Mach 1,948 for the meteorite would result in Mach 6+ fodder marines which, while not far-fetched, is not likely scaling from marine low tiers.

The speed of the marines needed to still be comparable to Coby, who could use Soru but was still a fairly new marine (he was Hypersonic+ for tagging base Luffy and dodging his punch at close range... Soru requires the user to kick the ground at least 10 times to propel himself off the ground at increased speeds). I decided on Supersonic fodder marines and a Mach 500 meteorite as my low end based on the fact that we needed to take the 400meter distance the marines traveled and that they should be comparable to the low tiers among the marines in terms of speed.

 

[Alakabamm]

Cin, you should follow Ant's advice and share it with the three calc group members he mentioned.

 

[CinCameron20]

Oh, I did several minutes ago. It is just that I'm still salty about abnormal speeds being considered impossible due to the force required. We've even seen Fujitora pull off insane casual feats with his gravity alone. opposing the drag force to more than double the meteorite's speed is likely given what he has already shown capable of.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am not saying that it is impossible. It is just that since the calculation group members disagree about it, I prefer to get more input.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I think it seems unlikely that the meteor was going at regular meteor speed, since it would have had the speed usually maintained by a meteor entering our atmosphere as well as additional force and speed caused by Fujitora's gravity manipulation. If a regular meteor entering the atmosphere is akin to someone dropping a ball, Fujitora's meteor should be akin to someone throwing the ball at the ground.

 

[CinCameron20]

That's pretty much the argument I'm making, but I need to wait for the rest of the calc grp to respond to my blog.

 

[CinCameron20]

I have another thing to say about Law and Doflamingo's tier:

I forgot we were making Luffy's base High 7-A and his Gear 4th being possibly higher. I think Law would scale up to "Probably High 7-A" but it was clear that base~3rd gear Luffy was superior in combat, though Law could tank a few strikes from Doflamingo (his haki successfully blocked Doflamingo's goshikito and he could briefly take the brunt of Doflamingo's melee assault without tiring) so it is possible for him to scale up.

Doflamingo is clearly shown superior to base Luffy and comparable to Gear 4th (surviving several strikes including KKG while already injured), so he should also be listed as "Likely High 7-A, possibly higher" due to being able to compete with Gear 4th.

would these two upgrades be reasonable?

 

[Alakabamm]

Eh, at best, Law's durability scales up. His Gamma Knife was the only thing that did real damage.

Doffy could only barely compete with 4th gear and was pretty much overwhelmed when Luffy was in it. Even with his awakening it wasn't very equal.

 

[CinCameron20]

The thing is that Doflamingo was easily capable of beating back base Luffy when both were relatively full of stamina. He could evade his 2nd gear strikes and easily counter attack all of his attacks, but after taking Gamma Knife, Base Luffy was capable of landing multiple blows on Doflamingo and could fight on par with him for a few chapters leading up to Gear 4th. Doflamingo was wounded before Luffy used Gear 4th (granted, Luffy was hurting too, but Doflamingo had suffered internal bleeding and physical trauma due to Gamma Knife erupting inside of his heart and lungs: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/781/11) he suffered intense blood loss and his stamina dropped drastically.

This is how effective he was against Luffy before Gamma Knife: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/760/10 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/780/12 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/780/13

After Gamma Knife: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/6 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/7 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/8 (he even struggled to break Luffy's defense with a kick enhanced with threads and haki unlike earlier on with just a haki infused kick), http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/8, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/783/13

Even though Doflamingo was still winning the struggle, after taking gamma knife, the gap between Luffy and him closed quite a bit. Doflamingo was being outsped by 2nd gear, had his strikes canceled out by Luffy's, and was actually taking multiple blows unlike before where he only took one direct blow from Luffy (And that was thanks to Law). He lost some power before Luffy started using Gear 4th.

Still, if you don't think he would be comparable to Gear 4th in terms of physical ability, I understand. I just thought that if Gear 4th is listed as "probably higher", Doflamingo should be comparable and be listed as "possibly higher", but if not, that's fine .

 

[Alakabamm]

Well, he got thrashed in the first Gear 4th transformation and in the second he has some minutes of rest before he had to take on Luffy again. Not very much time but enough to recover, considering his regen. Still, even awakened threads couldn't contain Luffy.

 

[CinCameron20]

Doflamingo outlasted the first round of Gear 4th and he had no rest. He fought against a bunch of coliseum fighters while walking around looking for Luffy, who was resting for 10 minutes.

 

[Alakabamm]

Yea, but he got thrown around the entire time with Gear 4th and it ended with him getting knocked into a mountain.

He was sort of playing around with the coliseum fighters as well.

 

[CinCameron20]

Alright, fair enough . But what about Law? He should be comparable to Doflamingo and Base Luffy. He is full of hax, but his durability has been shown high enough to block strikes from Doflamingo effectively.

 

[Pocket-Chu]

You keep at it Cin, don't stop until OP has better stats than the other members of the HST!

 

[CinCameron20]

Nah, I may be biased, but I'm not going to go like "make Dressrosa top tiers Continent level"

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

Doffy actually held his own against G4 for quite some time, even managing to dodge and land some attacks.

Also, Fuji's meteoer being normal speed means that it took MINUTES to get to the ground after Fuji summoned it. They only said a few sentences, so I don't see how that would be the case.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Wade

his physical strikes were practically ineffective due to Luffy's armament/rubber harmonizing. I still want to argue that he scales to Gear 4th since he could take several blows after already being mortally wounded. He held his own against Luffy for 20+ minutes during Gear 4th while still freshly injured from Gamma Knife and Counter Shock.

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

@Cin I know, but the fact he landed attacks and didn't just get fodderized shows that he wasn't far behined, ie, can be scaled.

Don't forget that he was using the Bird Cage at the time which is draining his stamina. Add that to the diced organs and other various injuries. Even after Luffy went into a coma from the second G4, Doffy still survived. He's a complete monster. Lmao.

 

[CinCameron20]

Of course, but given that G4 Luffy is only "Possibly higher" while Doflamingo has shown inferior physical feats (despite being injured... he was being overpowered physically).

I'd argue that his AP should be "possibly higher" than Small Island since his threads in awakening could deflect Luffy's normal G4 attacks without the use of haki and canceled out his headbutt (unlike the anime lmao), but his durability would likely have to be the same as Small Island.

 

[Alakabamm]

Naw, again, Doffy was not really an equal in that fight when G4 was active, so possibly higher is very inaccurate. We don't even know what awakening is at this point.

As for Law, I'll need to think about durability before coming back. But Law's attacks were ignored by Doffy except for the one we consider durability negating (which it totally is).

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Small Island/Large Mountain level is not a very wide category in terms of energy level, so if Doflamingo outclassed base Luffy, I suppose that placing him an "At least" before his rating might be acceptable.

 

[Antvasima]

However, regarding the speed level, we still need the other calculation group members to take a look at this.

 

[CinCameron20]

i sent the link to my calculation to the 3 other calc members yesterday... i have not seen an update.