One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[Popted2]

With Sanji it's debatable.
With Zoro, definitely not. Kidd didn't injure BM or Kaido- with Linlin he just shoved her around and distracted her for the most part. Law only got those hits in via dura neg.
Zoro on the other hand has shown full on comparable AP, making BM scream for Kaido to dodge- then scarring Kaido when he had dozens of broken bones and injuries. In terms of overall combat, Law is comparable, and Kidd is in terms of endurance/Durability- but if it's AP only, neither are "stronger". Not by their showings at least. Again- excluding Law's dura neg hax.
Considering Zoro and Sanji are meant to be comparable though- I'd say both are stronger than Kidd and Law just based on their "rivalry".

so someone wanna do Zoro and Sanji vs Kidd and Law with the Wano versions, after the revisions or right now?

 

[SnookB]

so someone wanna do Zoro and Sanji vs Kidd and Law with the Wano versions, after the revisions or right now?

They're currently just as comparable in their ratings, no? But I'd keep it 'till after wano so they're all at their most recent.

 

[Kachon123]

After Wano, Zoro and Sanji should still win via vastly superior skill, teamwork, dura neg, and amps

 

[SnookB]

After Wano, Zoro and Sanji should still win via vastly superior skill, teamwork, dura neg, and amps

Don't they already have their wano abilities? I thought the only thing that'd change is the tiers

 

[Tinodesu]

With Sanji it's debatable.
With Zoro, definitely not. Kidd didn't injure BM or Kaido- with Linlin he just shoved her around and distracted her for the most part. Law only got those hits in via dura neg.
Zoro on the other hand has shown full on comparable AP, making BM scream for Kaido to dodge- then scarring Kaido when he had dozens of broken bones and injuries. In terms of overall combat, Law is comparable, and Kidd is in terms of endurance/Durability- but if it's AP only, neither are "stronger". Not by their showings at least. Again- excluding Law's dura neg hax.
Considering Zoro and Sanji are meant to be comparable though- I'd say both are stronger than Kidd and Law just based on their "rivalry".

but among them Zoro has the lowest durability and stamina, Zoro may have the strongest AP, but Durability and Stamina are crucial for a fight, among them I would say Kid is the weakest, then judging by the statistics I think Sanji is the one most complete where he has everything, based on stats I would put Sanji in first place out of all four of them because Sanji is theoretically superior when facing them individually, although Sanji may not do better than Zoro and Law against stronger foes ,Law and Zoro are the most interesting because they have almost equal chances to beat each other.

 

[Ryuga21]

Do you guys think current Kid and Law are stronger than Sanji and Zoro ? Because no matter how i think,Sanji and Zoro still have better feats

I believe that among the four, Law has the best feats and lethality (He can easily apply OHK with Kroom to Zoro or Sanji targeting the brain - as much as Sanji has regeneration and manages to nullify the Kroom to a certain extent, I don't think he could regenerate an attack that would explode his brain). Zoro comes soon after; and I would say he is stronger overall as he has advanced CoC; ashura should be strong enough to almost One-Shot Kid or Law (But Curtain should perfectly protect Law against it).

Detailed and patient analysis is required to determine a winning duo but the fight is undoubtedly a good one.

 

[Tinodesu]

I believe that among the four, Law has the best feats and lethality (He can easily apply OHK with Kroom to Zoro or Sanji targeting the brain - as much as Sanji has regeneration and manages to nullify the Kroom to a certain extent, I don't think he could regenerate an attack that would explode his brain). Zoro comes soon after; and I would say he is stronger overall as he has advanced CoC; ashura should be strong enough to almost One-Shot Kid or Law (But Curtain should perfectly protect Law against it).

Detailed and patient analysis is required to determine a winning duo but the fight is undoubtedly a good one.

Don't forget that Sanji has a speed that an observation haki user, Queen, can't detect, that's the reason why I think Sanji can theoretically beat all three, because no one will be able to detect him and he could just attack all three or remove them from battlefield and it will be counted as victory by sba.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Kid got his magnetic powers which could affect weapons user like Zoro and Law. And with Awakening, he could magnetize them individually and pin down his opponents, leaving them vulnerable to attacks unless they do a Big Mom

 

[SnookB]

but among them Zoro has the lowest durability and stamina, Zoro may have the strongest AP, but Durability and Stamina are crucial for a fight, among them I would say Kid is the weakest, then judging by the statistics I think Sanji is the one most complete where he has everything, based on stats I would put Sanji in first place out of all four of them because Sanji is theoretically superior when facing them individually, although Sanji may not do better than Zoro and Law against stronger foes ,Law and Zoro are the most interesting because they have almost equal chances to beat each other.

Zoro's stamina was made to seem higher than Sanji's if anything? Sanji vs Queen lasted about as long as Zoro vs King did. But in addition to Zoro having to fight King, Enma was sucking his energy throughout that entire fight, even more so when he used CoC coating. He had to outlast King and Enma- Both passed out after their fights, but the difference is that Sanji passed out from fighting Queen, while Zoro had to deal with King's invulnerability, Enma basically draining him even more than usual, and the drugs tearing his body up from the moment he used CoC coating.
Kidd's durability/Endurance is heavily underestimated- the guy took multiple hits from Linlin. A direct punch to the face on the roof- Mama Raid during the fight in the lower floor. Ikoku when she sent them flying out of said floor onto the live floor. Same as Law since they were both getting beat up off-screen by her.

 

[SnookB]

Kid got his magnetic powers which could affect weapons user like Zoro and Law. And with Awakening, he could magnetize them individually and pin down his opponents, leaving them vulnerable to attacks unless they do a Big Mom

Isn't Sanji's exoskeleton made of metal of some sorts? Wouldn't Kidd just neg him altogether-

 

[Tinodesu]

Kid got his magnetic powers which could affect weapons user like Zoro and Law. And with Awakening, he could magnetize them individually and pin down his opponents, leaving them vulnerable to attacks unless they do a Big Mom

I didn't think of that scenario, but if the fight takes place in an empty arena, I think Zoro and Law are strong enough to defend their swords against King's magnetic pull.

 

[KobsterHope07]

I didn't think of that scenario, but if the fight takes place in an empty arena, I think Zoro and Law are strong enough to defend their swords against King's magnetic pull.

Big Mom could not fight against Kid's power so I doubt that Law and Zoro would fair much better

Isn't Sanji's exoskeleton made of metal of some sorts? Wouldn't Kidd just neg him altogether-

Well, if his body is literally an iron body, then yeah

 

[Tinodesu]

Zoro's stamina was made to seem higher than Sanji's if anything? Sanji vs Queen lasted about as long as Zoro vs King did. But in addition to Zoro having to fight King, Enma was sucking his energy throughout that entire fight, even more so when he used CoC coating. He had to outlast King and Enma- Both passed out after their fights, but the difference is that Sanji passed out from fighting Queen, while Zoro had to deal with King's invulnerability, Enma basically draining him even more than usual, and the drugs tearing his body up from the moment he used CoC coating.
Kidd's durability/Endurance is heavily underestimated- the guy took multiple hits from Linlin. A direct punch to the face on the roof- Mama Raid during the fight in the lower floor. Ikoku when she sent them flying out of said floor onto the live floor. Same as Law since they were both getting beat up off-screen by her.

didn't Zoro get a super recovery drug that made his stamina recover?, because I remember previously Zoro used all his energy to use Ashura, that's the reason why I said Zoro has the lowest stamina

 

[Tinodesu]

Isn't Sanji's exoskeleton made of metal of some sorts? Wouldn't Kidd just neg him altogether-

if that's true then Kid will get a lot of advantages, but I think we need further confirmation because I think it's a bit weird

 

[Magmag]

if that's true then Kid will get a lot of advantages, but I think we need further confirmation because I think it's a bit weird

I feel like oda forgets about magnetism when it’s kidds ally

 

[SnookB]

didn't Zoro get a super recovery drug that made his stamina recover?, because I remember previously Zoro used all his energy to use Ashura, that's the reason why I said Zoro has the lowest stamina

There's no such thing as "energy" in one piece. Zoro could've stayed active after using Ashura just like he did in Enies Lobby. The reason he said it's his last attack is because he knew his body wouldn't carry him further. I can't recall accurately but Law said Zoro had more than twenty broken bones- that and it was after tanking a Hakai and forcing his body to stay upright to stop Prometheus, as well as the fact that he deflected a Hybrid Kaido Kanabo attack right before Ashura.
The recovery drug was good at first, but the Zoro vs King chapter, his first shishi sonson is followed by a tear on Zoro's shoulder, and when he's attacking King during the "why are you blocking" scene, Zoro's shoulder spurts blood again, which means he was fighting on the backfoot since the drug was starting to damage his body finally.
When you consider all of that- Broken bones, tanking what's basically the strongest attack shown since it's the AP of TWO Yonko combined, being worn down by both Enma and the drug- Zoro's practically a monster in terms of endurance for even managing to finish King off and returning to the island. I'd go as far as to say his endurance is over Kidd and Law even after their fight with Linlin.

 

[SnookB]

On second thought- this should definitely be a thread. A 2V2 thread with those four sounds fun to debate about. Also to not turn the general discussion into the debate thread-

 

[Kachon123]

Isn't Sanji's exoskeleton made of metal of some sorts? Wouldn't Kidd just neg him altogether-

It's not made of metal.

 

[SnookB]

It's not made of metal.

The capes for germa are, I think. But idk about the exoskeleton. They're called "iron" bodies, but whether they're actually metallic or not is left for debate. If Sanji wore his germa raid suit he'd be negged by Kidd, but outside of it, he's likely going to be fine unless Kidd uses awakening to magnetise him.
Then again that works for every character anyway

 

[Kachon123]

The capes for germa are, I think. But idk about the exoskeleton. They're called "iron" bodies, but whether they're actually metallic or not is left for debate. If Sanji wore his germa raid suit he'd be negged by Kidd, but outside of it, he's likely going to be fine unless Kidd uses awakening to magnetise him.
Then again that works for every character anyway

Sanji destroyed his raid suit in chapter 1031. Regardless, he doesn't need it to beat Kidd. Sanji has FS, so he can avoid anything he has other than Assign, and as for assign, Sanji can just blitz and use Ifrit Jambe and finish the job. Even in the off chance that Kidd catches Sanji, he can just regenerate from getting slammed to the ground.

 

[Popted2]

i wonder how would go for Zoro vs Law

of course with the Wano versions

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Zoro's armament haki would carry

 

[Kachon123]

Zoro's armament haki would carry

Law would win. He's smarter, has hax that can effect Zoro, and a lot of dura neg.

 

[SnookB]

Sanji destroyed his raid suit in chapter 1031. Regardless, he doesn't need it to beat Kidd. Sanji has FS, so he can avoid anything he has other than Assign, and as for assign, Sanji can just blitz and use Ifrit Jambe and finish the job. Even in the off chance that Kidd catches Sanji, he can just regenerate from getting slammed to the ground.

Would Sanji even break anything from Kidd slamming him? I don't see a scenario where Sanji would break anything against Kidd, especially not if it's post germa cells awakening

 

[Kachon123]

Would Sanji even break anything from Kidd slamming him? I don't see a scenario where Sanji would break anything against Kidd, especially not if it's post germa cells awakening

I honestly don't think so, though that may just be my Sanji bias. You would have to ask someone else.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He's smarter

Won't matter, zoro's battle iq is much better...

has hax that can effect Zoro, and a lot of dura neg.

Won't get the chance to land and gets resisted by haki... Zoro has many blitz techniques which if landed would be fatal

 

[SnookB]

I honestly don't think so, though that may just be my Sanji bias. You would have to ask someone else.

Don't think so either tbh. Queen went from breaking Sanji's bones to breaking his own weapon with a full on swing on Sanji's face afterwards. I don't see Kidd damaging Sanji to the point where regen's needed. Still won't be an easy fight- just nothing too difficult for ol' cook

 

[Dir333]

Won't get the chance to land and gets resisted by haki... Zoro has many blitz techniques which if landed would be fatal

How do you measure haki.???

 

[Kachon123]

Won't get the chance to land and gets resisted by haki... Zoro has many blitz techniques which if landed would be fatal

Law was able to cut through Big Mom multiple times, to the point that he defeated her. Have you not read the latest chapter(s)?

Won't get the chance to land and gets resisted by haki... Zoro has many blitz techniques which if landed would be fatal

Law was able to react to blitz from Big Mom, Kaido like thunder bagua, and be standing.

Law has incredible endurance. He was able to go from fighting Kaido, to beating Big Mom, and is still standing. He won't be knocked out.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

How do you measure haki.

Well... We have zoro one shotting fullbody haki Pica and is able to utilize black blades as well as stated to have better armament haki than luffy beginning of post timeskip

 

[Kachon123]

Don't think so either tbh. Queen went from breaking Sanji's bones to breaking his own weapon with a full on swing on Sanji's face afterwards. I don't see Kidd damaging Sanji to the point where regen's needed. Still won't be an easy fight- just nothing too difficult for ol' cook

Also, Queen was stated to be able to crush Armament Haki masters, while not even using Armament himself. Sanji was able to no-sell full on attacks from Queen by just standing there. Once Sanji adds Armament on his exoskeleton durability, only a handful of people can do significant damage to him.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Law was able to cut through Big Mom multiple times, to the point that he defeated her. Have you not read the latest chapter(s)?

No.

Law was able to react to blitz from Big Mom, Kaido like thunder bagua, and be standing.

Idk.

Law has incredible endurance. He was able to go from fighting Kaido, to beating Big Mom, and is still standing. He won't be knocked out.

Endurance won't matter if he's cut in half

 

[SnookB]

Law was able to cut through Big Mom multiple times, to the point that he defeated her. Have you not read the latest chapter(s)?

Didn't cut through her. Dura neg for Law isn't the same as Zoro's actual AP scaling to yonko durability.

Law was able to react to blitz from Big Mom, Kaido like thunder bagua, and be standing.

Zoro stopped Kaido mid-swing when using Ashura, and intercepted Boro Breath with a swing, and Big Mom's attack on Luffy as well with very little distance between her and the target. Not to mention drained Zoro reacting to FTE King.

Law has incredible endurance. He was able to go from fighting Kaido, to beating Big Mom, and is still standing. He won't be knocked out.

So does Zoro. He tanked a combined two-yonko AP and went on to bully Prometheus then scar Kaido. And still tried to stand again if it weren't for a thunder bagua. He's also able to fight with Enma's life drain until he won, similiar to how Law's awakening "exhausts" him yet he used it for a while.

I get the feel you're sleeping on Zoro a little.

 

[Dir333]

Well... We have zoro one shotting fullbody haki Pica and is able to utilize black blades as well as stated to have better armament haki than luffy beginning of post timeskip

I forgot you don't read the manga but law still one shot vergo who also had a full body haki possibly greater than that of pica

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

as well as stated to have better armament haki than luffy beginning of post timeskip

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I forgot you don't read the manga but law still one shot vergo who also had a full body haki possibly greater than that of pica

No... Pica definitely had stronger armament haki. I think I remember some statement about it

 

[Kachon123]

Well... We have zoro one shotting fullbody haki and is able to utilize black blades as well as stated to have better armament haki than luffy begging of post timeskip

Zoro used one of his 3ss secret techniques to cut pica, while Law used a single cut once to cut through vergo.

As for Zoro's CoA being superior to BoTS Luffy's, that Luffy wasn't able to even protect himself from Hody's teeth. It's not much of a feat to be superior to CoA of that level.

Endurance won't matter if he's cut in half

The funny thing is that he won't.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I think.

Don't you think? That you could beat me, if only you could cut me,

↑In addition to relying on the abilities of the demon fruit, he also has a fighting style in which he wears the armed colors, which he has mastered, all over his body.

armed color

forward

warrior

 

[Kachon123]

Once Law uses Kroom, it's over.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

As for Zoro's CoA being superior to BoTS Luffy's, that Luffy wasn't able to even protect himself from Hody's teeth. It's not much of a feat to be superior to CoA of that level.

That question came up in dressrosa