One Piece Databook Upgrades (A good amount)

[KingTempest]

I got my hands on the databooks, and I listed a bunch of things that I pulled from them.

It's not for debate tbh, it's just a bunch of author statements basically.

KingTempest16/One Piece Databook Revisions

vsbattles.fandom.com

How are we taking it?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I agree with everything there.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Everything looks good to me. Like you said, not much room for arguing with most of these lol.

 

[joshpiece]

I think it all looks good I’m interested to see 6-B Weevil.

 

[Damage3245]

Only commenting on the ones I find somewhat questionable.

Is simply parrying attacks enough to count for Attack Reflection?

The Devil Fruit & Haki part, I think is some wording that is open to interpretation. If you think about "blocking Devil Fruit abilities" is no different than "blocking physical attacks with weapons" then it could be simply down to increasing the user's durability, not necessarily resisting all abilities.

Monet's ability does not seem like Death Manipulation rather just common sense that if a person is frozen and falls asleep then eventually they will die. Similar thing could be said for a person with Fire Manipulation; if you burn someone to an extreme than they will surely die, but you didn't do it through Death Manipulation.

The Charlotte Oven bit seems like it could be referring more to endurance? I hesitate to say that he should be stronger than Katakuri especially since Oven could get knocked flying by Sanji whereas Katakuri was tangling with Gear 4 Luffy.

 

[SamanPatou]

I disagree with several of these:

- I don't see the Shishi Sonson being a speed amp, the scan (or at least its translation) only says that it is fast, with some flowery addition like divine speed and a note about the blade being invisible. It's everything very vague, and an invisible blade is subsonic at most, but even the weakest Zoro is hypersonic.

- Parrying attacks isn't attack reflection, it's just blocking which some side-effects depending on how the verse portrays it.

- Reactive Evolution may be iffy and just a way to say how Zoro improves.

- Monet's isn't death manipulation, freezing to death happens even in real life, it's part of her devil fruit. She isn't casting a death hex on you, she just kills with her cold snow.

 

[KingTempest]

Is simply parrying attacks enough to count for Attack Reflection?

Muggy balls explode on contact and Mihawk reflected it just by swinging his sword.

The Devil Fruit & Haki part, I think is some wording that is open to interpretation. If you think about "blocking Devil Fruit abilities" is no different than "blocking physical attacks with weapons" then it could be simply down to increasing the user's durability, not necessarily resisting all abilities.

I won't shut you down and say "no it means DF yadayadayada", but the scans in questions show Devil Fruit users getting knocked off, so idk if it's AP/dura based. Plus, with the DF stuff we've seen recently, it favors mine more.

Monet's ability does not seem like Death Manipulation rather just common sense that if a person is frozen and falls asleep then eventually they will die. Similar thing could be said for a person with Fire Manipulation; if you burn someone to an extreme than they will surely die, but you didn't do it through Death Manipulation.

Valid, I noticed it when I ran through this and I wanted to remove it. I forgot to though.

The Charlotte Oven bit seems like it could be referring more to endurance? I hesitate to say that he should be stronger than Katakuri especially since Oven could get knocked flying by Sanji whereas Katakuri was tangling with Gear 4 Luffy.

I hear this one a lot.

Katakuri with no Haki and no Devil Fruit abilities at all is physically weaker than Oven. So scrap the fists that he expands to match Elephant Guns, his Haki punches, and his spear. All of that is weaker than Oven w/ the same debuffs.

 

[KingTempest]

- I don't see the Shishi Sonson being a speed amp, the scan (or at least its translation) only says that it is fast, with some flowery addition like divine speed and a note about the blade being invisible. It's everything very vague, and an invisible blade is subsonic at most, but even the weakest Zoro is hypersonic.

Zoro doesn't use that speed regularly, so him being faster warrants a "higher". The fact that they hype this technique's speed up by saying he needs a certain speed to cut it says a lot.

- Parrying attacks isn't attack reflection, it's just blocking which some side-effects depending on how the verse portrays it.

Muggy balls explode on contact and Mihawk reflected it just by swinging his sword.

- Reactive Evolution may be iffy and just a way to say how Zoro improves.

Zoro shows getting stronger in the middle of his fights consistently though.
He didn't know how to cut steel, then he learned how.
He says he gets stronger after every island he gets on.
I'll take that or advanced development, but something warrants his improvement.

- Monet's isn't death manipulation, freezing to death happens even in real life, it's part of her devil fruit. She isn't casting a death hex on you, she just kills with her cold snow.

Valid, I noticed it when I ran through this and I wanted to remove it. I forgot to though.

 

[Damage3245]

Muggy balls explode on contact and Mihawk reflected it just by swinging his sword.

Couldn't Mihawk have simply reflected it back before the explosion went off? He is apparently a Relativistic+ fighter, so he'd send it back faster than any explosion.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I think Accelerated Development might fit Zoro's case more.

Also, I didn't see the Monet stuff lol. I definitely disagree with that FRA. It's just Ice manipulation.

 

[KingTempest]

Couldn't Mihawk have simply reflected it back before the explosion went off? He is apparently a Relativistic+ fighter, so he'd send it back faster than any explosion.

Seems much more than regular "deflect until explosion"

 

[KobsterHope07]

The Accelerated Development page does make note of that if a character improve during battle, then you should list it as Reactive Power Level instead of Accelerated Development

 

[SamanPatou]

Ok then, reactive or accelerated is good for Zoro, but him not being that fast regularly just means he uses more of his natural speed for some attacks, it doesn't enhance what he naturally has.

Mihawk's is deflection, not reflection. It's good by itself and it's actually a skill feat, but you have to send something back to get attack reflection.

 

[KingTempest]

Ok then, reactive or accelerated is good for Zoro, but him not being that fast regularly just means he uses more of his natural speed for some attacks, it doesn't enhance what he naturally has.

Thank you

Mihawk's is deflection, not reflection. It's good by itself and it's actually a skill feat, but you have to send something back to get attack reflection.

Check the Muggy bomb above which he reflected back at Buggy

 

[Eminiteable]

here are my thoughts;

Oven would only count for physical strength, not counting the likes of haki or devil fruit abilities.

Not sure about Monet, I'll wait to see more input on that.

The Accelerated Development page does make note of that if a character improve during battle, then you should list it as Reactive Power Level instead of Accelerated Development

Agree with reactive power level over accelerated development.

For Mihawk his deflection of the muggy ball would be the main evidence since it is supposed to explode on impact and with the way it's shown it doesn't seem to just be reflecting it before it explodes, the likes of the bullet deflection & Tashigi's cannon ball deflection would support this.


Everything else looks fine.

 

[SamanPatou]

Check the Muggy bomb above which he reflected back at Buggy

Right, I completely missed it and just looked and him swinging forward and them saying deflected. Attack reflection for Mihawk is fine, then.

 

[KingTempest]

Since I was rethinking about the Post TS CRT (coming soon) for a while since the Pre TS one was done, Oven's striking and dura, Jozu's AP, and Cracker's AP will be worked on in that one.

Chinjao's, Shanks's, and Yoru's will be added since they don't scale to anyone important, or they're already supported.

Haki'll be discussed later as the series progresses, since it'll be an issue to give them resistances to every ability in the book today.

I'll add everything else.

 

[Ryuga21]

Oven's case seems doubtful (Katakuri stopped Ichiji with one hand and Oven was overwhelmed by him. I don't see how they would even be comparable in power level). I believe that this translation must be referring to stamina or endurance, since Katakuri is not used to being beaten and Oven is quite sturdy.

 

[KingTempest]

Oven's case seems doubtful (Katakuri stopped Ichiji with one hand and Oven was overwhelmed by him. I don't see how they would even be comparable in power level). I believe that this translation must be referring to stamina or endurance, since Katakuri is not used to being beaten and Oven is quite sturdy.

Off screen fight, and we mean without DFs or Haki.

 

[theultimate5105]

Yeah Shishi Sonson doesn't look like a speed amp it seems very full of hyperbole with you not even being able to see the flash (pretty sure that would need to be FTL for not seeing the light reflecting off before it hit) also divine speed is very flowery
Mihawks is redirecting attacks but its believable at best you could say limited attack reflection
Agree with Reactive Power level
Agree with information analysis (make sure to specify how it works)
Agree with Paranormic Vision
The Negation or resistence is a no for me it seems like its just physically blocking them and treating them as superior to normal attacks (which they are)
Shanks causes a bit of a problem because Mihawk is accepted as superior to him so Mihawk=>Shanks=Whitebeard AKA the worlds strongest man
I disagree with them having haki since they should have showed it in the series (even if its not visible it still worked for saboady and Amazon Lily to have it)
Prime Chinjoa scaling feels really iffy since his bounty is super low (sure bounties aren't the end all be all but it should still be in the billions) and the fact that he is never portrayed as on their level
Agree with the rest

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah Shishi Sonson doesn't look like a speed amp it seems very full of hyperbole with you not even being able to see the flash (pretty sure that would need to be FTL for not seeing the light reflecting off before it hit) also divine speed is very flowery

He's faster in this attack than his base

The Negation or resistence is a no for me it seems like its just physically blocking them and treating them as superior to normal attacks (which they are)

Big Mom and Kaido couldn't get teleported a few chapters ago because they have superior Haki, and Doffy flat out says that Haki blocks out spacial cuts, and Rayleigh flat out says it's the way to combat DF abilities

Shanks causes a bit of a problem because Mihawk is accepted as superior to him so Mihawk=>Shanks=Whitebeard AKA the worlds strongest man

We'll discuss that in a different thread

I disagree with them having haki since they should have showed it in the series (even if its not visible it still worked for saboady and Amazon Lily to have it)

Haki is regularly invisible, and they're not main characters so they won't get screentime. Do you know how many Haki users there are?

Prime Chinjoa scaling feels really iffy since his bounty is super low (sure bounties aren't the end all be all but it should still be in the billions) and the fact that he is never portrayed as on their level

He was a rival to garp 8 years before the series. Roger died 20 years before the series. The databook flat out says he used to fight them.

You literally can't say no to this because of lack of portrayal... these are databook statements.

Additions have been added. Closing

 

[KingTempest]

Thread has been unlocked.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I do actually agree with what Samon has accepted.

 

[theultimate5105]

He's faster in this attack than his base

All your evidence for it is using hyperbolic text like Fast as lightning or divine speed your evidence for it should be from the manga

Big Mom and Kaido couldn't get teleported a few chapters ago because they have superior Haki, and Doffy flat out says that Haki blocks out spacial cuts, and Rayleigh flat out says it's the way to combat DF abilities

This is about what is on here which is not supporting evidence

Haki is regularly invisible, and they're not main characters so they won't get screentime. Do you know how many Haki users there are?

So the people on Amazon lily are main characters then we know they have haki because they showed it. Pre time skip non main characters show haki heck Skypea the previous arc has a ton of people showing it

He was a rival to garp 8 years before the series. Roger died 20 years before the series. The databook flat out says he used to fight them.

You literally can't say no to this because of lack of portrayal... these are databook statements.

A Single Databook statement doesn't work as evidence alone especially for scaling him to someone like garp who is a actual god tier

 

[KingTempest]

All your evidence for it is using hyperbolic text like Fast as lightning or divine speed

When did I say "he's lightning speed"? I said "he's faster than base". I never said "he's super fast", I said that his speed is higher when he uses that technique, which warrants a higher.

This is about what is on here which is not supporting evidence

So you want me to use more statements for supporting evidence that you'll just say no to?

So the people on Amazon lily are main characters then we know they have haki because they showed it

Because they are the originators of Haki. Keep going.

A Single Databook statement doesn't work as evidence alone especially for scaling him to someone like garp

Prove that a canon databook statement is not enough. It doesn't matter who's scaling. It's a statement.

When was a databook statement not enough? All you say is "it's not enough" with no authority or reason. I don't care what you think isn't evidence, he has a statement of scaling.

 

[theultimate5105]

When did I say "he's lightning speed"? I said "he's faster than base". I never said "he's super fast", I said that his speed is higher when he uses that technique, which warrants a higher.

Statements from characters in verse are far more reliable which you are not using

Because they are the originators of Haki. Keep going.

We are shown haki both types previously we have more examples on saboady there is nothing that suggests they had it

Prove that a canon databook statement is not enough. It doesn't matter who's scaling. It's a statement.

When was a databook statement not enough? All you say is "it's not enough" with no authority or reason. I don't care what you think isn't evidence, he has a statement of scaling.

First of all a slightly older version when he gets his original head back is still far inferior to mountain level characters
You are scaling someone to a god tier which needs actual evidence like feats of fighting them when there serious we are even shown in the manga his head gets pummeled in shortly by a garp who doesn't look that serious in comparison to his major fights

 

[theultimate5105]

Going to sleep in a few minutes will try to get one more response in if you respond shortly after this

 

[KingTempest]

Statements from characters in verse are far more reliable

Statements

Regarding how to gauge the reliability of statements about characters. The answer depends on the person saying it. Let's make a hypothetical example. "The Green Knight is stated in-universe to be invincible. So far, he has taken every single attack thrown at him on the chin and either picked...

vsbattles.fandom.com

We are shown haki both types previously we have more examples on saboady there is nothing that suggests they had it

Statements

Regarding how to gauge the reliability of statements about characters. The answer depends on the person saying it. Let's make a hypothetical example. "The Green Knight is stated in-universe to be invincible. So far, he has taken every single attack thrown at him on the chin and either picked...

vsbattles.fandom.com

First of all a slightly older version when he gets his original head back is still far inferior to mountain level characters

I don't care, Oda says he scales

You are scaling someone to a god tier which needs actual evidence like feats of fighting them when there serious we are even shown in the manga his head gets pummeled in shortly by a garp who doesn't look that serious in comparison to his major fights

I don't care. Oda says he scales.

Your argument is "databook < in canon feats and character statements" even though our statements page says the opposite.

Go find the wiki rule where it says that you need more proof, because you are no authority on how much/what proof is required.

 

[DaReaperMan]

we can scale mid-tiers to god tiers, just look at everyone scaling to the Ghost Ship's lightning in Realm of the Mad God even though the others who scale to it can't even lay a scratch on it

 

[KingTempest]

This is a Prime God tier who was a rival to a God tier in his peak form, then with decades of time and brain damage he gets weaker, and he's saying the author saying he's stronger in his prime isn't good enough.

This isn't my headcanon, this is the author saying he scales. Enough.

 

[theultimate5105]

Statements

Regarding how to gauge the reliability of statements about characters. The answer depends on the person saying it. Let's make a hypothetical example. "The Green Knight is stated in-universe to be invincible. So far, he has taken every single attack thrown at him on the chin and either picked...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Not a argument In verse characters who fought are more reliable then databooks

Statements

Regarding how to gauge the reliability of statements about characters. The answer depends on the person saying it. Let's make a hypothetical example. "The Green Knight is stated in-universe to be invincible. So far, he has taken every single attack thrown at him on the chin and either picked...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Again we literally have multiple examples of other people pre time skip using it if oda intended them to have it they should have shown it. He knew what haki was 2 arcs before so don't pull the he hadn't planned for it. They blantantly are shown not to have it when observation especially would have majorly helped them against the straw hats

I don't care. Oda says he scales.

In the databooks which in most series are notorious for being unreliable. Your literally repeating your argument over and over statements aren't unfailible Insane Claims require insane amounts of evidence which you haven't shown

Your argument is "databook < in canon feats and character statements" even though our statements page says the opposite.

Go find the wiki rule where it says that you need more proof, because you are no authority on how much/what proof is required.

Look above

 

[KingTempest]

In the databooks which in most series are notorious for being unreliable. Your literally repeating your argument over and over statements aren't unfailible Insane Claims require insane amounts of evidence which you haven't shown

"Most series" is not One Piece.


They even have an official website for them.

VIVRECARD(ビブルカード)ONE PIECE(ワンピース)図鑑～ OFFICIAL SITE

one-piece.com

I don't care if other series are unreliable. The author flat out says that they're reliable. So go somewhere else with that.

"Infallible Insane Claims" to you, I don't care. Your arguments are "databooks aren't allowed" which this wiki doesn't accept.

You.
Are.
Not.
Authority.

Go change a wiki policy and I'll delete this thread. Until then, I don't care, Oda is valid.

 

[KingTempest]

Waiting for another staff member to accept these.

His argument is "it's not in the manga" even that's the point of databooks, to clarify what's not in the manga.

 

[joshpiece]

1. Vivre card is 100% reliable. It explicitly covers what Oda doesn’t have time for in the manga. Saying the vivre cards aren’t reliable is like saying the manga isn’t reliable....

2. Every time Zoro uses the Shishi Sonson he blitzes the opponent. The manga has clearly shown Zoro amps his speed with some of his attacks regardless of the validity of the statement the manga backs it up 100%

 

[Bernkastelll]

I agree wtih everything

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Seems perfectly fine

 

[StrawHatArslan]

1. Vivre card is 100% reliable. It explicitly covers what Oda doesn’t have time for in the manga. Saying the vivre cards aren’t reliable is like saying the manga isn’t reliable....

2. Every time Zoro uses the Shishi Sonson he blitzes the opponent. The manga has clearly shown Zoro amps his speed with some of his attacks regardless of the validity of the statement the manga backs it up 100%

Very good points.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Also, simple question, is Monet feat going to be accepted? Cuz I disagree with it, thats not death manip, its just freezing someone to death, its like saying that I have death manip cuz I can stabb someone to death

 

[joshpiece]

Also, simple question, is Monet feat going to be accepted? Cuz I disagree with it, thats not death manip, its just freezing someone to death, its like saying that I have death manip cuz I can stabb someone to death

No I think Tempest dropped that

 

[Antvasima]

To be perfectly honest, if I remember correctly, we do tend to consider databooks, or at least Marvel handbooks, unreliable on their own, and usually only use the information within them if they are supported by the stories themselves.

@Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @DarkDragonMedeus @DemonGodMitchAubin

What do you think about this?