Obito Uchiha tier upgrade

[Joseph619]

Obito has been put at 6B and Madara at 5C. There is no way Rikudo Madara is 20,000 times stronger than Obito, that is a huge gap. Madara hasn't shown ANY feat to suggest he is that much above Obito in any stats. Obito could do everything Madara did. Obito could replicate Madara's Chibaku Tensei feat, and also infinite tsukuyomi. Madara was better than Obito but in there's no way he's 20,000 times stronger. Not by feats, not by powerscaling, not by character statements.

Let me share some of Obito's feats. Obito was able to fire 4 juubidama at the same time[1] Juubi at a weakened state can destroy entire mountain range with a juubidama[2] Then he ripped apart Hashirama's seal which was able to contain the juubidama[3] Here he tanks 4 bijudama with his truth seeking balls, completely unharmed.[4] We all know how powerful a bijudama is, right?

And one of the most impressive feat, Obito broke out of Hashirama's Sage Art: Gate of the Great God technique with ease[5], this same gate justu was pinned down the Juubi itself when it was in it's first form.[6] If Juubi itself is put at 5-C by powerscaling, how come Obito is simply 6B? Obito definitely isn't 20000x weaker than Juubi. Jinchuuriki are always stronger than the bijuu because of better chakra control. Obito getting beaten by Naruto's talk no jutsu was a PIS just as Kaguya getting punched by Sakura despite having byakugan's 360 vision

I suggest Obito is upgraded to 6A, if not 5C. Had he not been beaten by Naruto because of plot no jutsu, Obito could have put the whole world under infinite tsukuyomi. As a juubi jinchuuriki Obito is on the same tier as the god characters, even if he's weaket than his peers. His feats are as good as Rinnegan Sasuke's if not better.

 

[Valar_Melkor_2]

Obito couldn't replicate all of Madara's feats, because he was mising the chakra of the most powerful two Bijuu and only had one Rinnegan. If one Juubidama from final form Juubi is country level as is listed on it's profile then he should be around Large Country level from being able to fire 4 at once, so maybe high 6-B.

 

[Joseph619]

That doesn't mean Madara is 20,000 stronger than Obito. That would make no sense. Madara's biggest feat was Chibaku Tensei which itself was country level only, not continent level. Madara is only moon level by powerscaling from Hagoromo, so Obito should be powerscaled as well. Madara himself doesn't have any moon level DC feat. Obito was also capable of Infinite Tsukuyomi, in fact Madara chose Obito to do it in his stead but Obito got beaten by talk no jutsu

If Obito is not upgraded, then Madara has to be downgraded to 6A. Whatever the case, madara is not 20000x stronger than Obito. Obito's feats are as impressive as Madara's (I already showed them above). We can't powerscale only Madara but ignore Obito. Both of them are country level by feats. Madara is definitely not moon level without powerscaling, and he's not 20,000 times stronger than Obito by feats or hype

 

[Antvasima]

The way that I remember, Madara actually was calculated as having a low Moon level feat. However, I agree that it doesn't make sense for Obito to be so much weaker. Perhaps level 6-A would be appropriate?

 

[Joseph619]

Of course, Obito and Madara are pretty much equal in feats. Obito was CURBSTOMPING everybody until Naruto got him beat with ******** PIS known as talk no jutsu. Obito ripped off a barried that contained a concentrated juubidama blast, tanked 4 BIJUUDAMA point blank without ANY damage, I tell you.

Obito is 6A by feats at the very least, and possibly 5C as his feats are better than Rinnegan Sasuke's (Obito's durability is monstrous if you ignore PIS). And Madara is nowhere near moon level, not even continent level. Whatever the calc was it was very faulty. Madara is not a continent buster with feats. He destroyed Frost Country, not a continent. Bambina from Toriko is a continent buster by feats

 

[SwordSlayer99]

Madara is not Moon level via powerscaling to Hagoromo.

Madara's Chibaku Tensei was calculated to be Moon level http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=22330&page=4 and since the calculation did not include all of Madara's meteors the actual result is around 29.92 Exatons and 31.07 Exatons.

 

[Joseph619]

That calc looks shoddy as hell, I saw another calc which put Madara at country level. He destroyed Frost Country, no way that is a moon level feat. People have no clue what moon level feat looks like

This is a moon level feat[1]. That is not even a continent level feat

Let me tell you what's wrong with that calc. It combined all the rock's volume and put them together. That's not how feats work. Luffy can destroy noah with several thousand punches, doesn't mean luffy is island level. If it was Luffy would be island level since fishman island arc. Collective damage is not same as one shot attack

 

[SwordSlayer99]

Madara is only Moon level in POTENTCY not AoE.

Do you know what Potentcy and AoE mean?

Because you don't have to blow up a Moon to be Moon level.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the Madara calculation seems fine. He launched several meteorites at once after all, so I have no problem with adding them together.

 

[Joseph619]

Yes I know what potency means. And I already proved what's wrong with that calc. It combines the size of all the individual pieces, the same as accumulative damage. If you destroy a planet with 10 punches it doesn't make you planet buster

I see no reason why Obito is 20000 times weaker than Madara, when both of them have same feats. If Obito's Juubidama is combined similarly he would also have moon level potency

 

[Joseph619]

I think that the Madara calculation seems fine. He launched several meteorites at once after all, so I have no problem with adding them together.

That attack is the same as Luffy's noah busting attack, accumulative damage. Do you also count Fishman Island luffy as island level?

Anyway, this is about Obito, so lets focus on him. If we combine Obito's juubidama (4 in 1) he would easily have the same DC output as Madara's CT

 

[SwordSlayer99]

"Yes I know what potency means. And I already proved what's wrong with that calc. It combines the size of all the individual pieces,"

If you know what potentcy means than why are you aruging about Madara not being Moon level?Madara can not blow up a Moon, Continent, or even a Country in AoE.

The reason Madara is Moon level is because he had to put all that energy into those Meteors. Yes the combined result is Moon level, but Madara still had to pour all that energy into those meteors.

Heck Moon level starts at 20 Exatons of TNT and Madara's Chibaku Tensei resulted in roughly 30 Exatons of TNT. Madara is 10 Exatons above Moon level.

Also, Madara's Chibaku Tensei was very casual. Madara himself called them "Raindrops".

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if I remember correctly Madara was stated to be far stronger than Obito, and we are not going to downgrade Madara. However, unless somebody else objects, you are free to upgrade Obito to level 6-A via power-scaling if you wish.

 

[Joseph619]

Well, if I remember correctly Madara was stated to be far stronger than Obito, and we are not going to downgrade Madara. However, unless somebody else objects, you are free to upgrade Obito to level 6-A via power-scaling if you wish.

Alright, I don't see how Madara is 20,000 stronger than Obito when both have the same DC output and similar durability. Obito was also more impressive with the TSB than Madara.

 

[SwordSlayer99]

Only Madara's Chibaku Tensei is "20,000" times stronger than Obito. Madara is only Moon level with CT, and he is Continent level+ otherwise.

 

[Non-Bias]

I agree with Joseph619. While Madara was "stronger", both of them were running on the same power, which was the Juubi's power. There's no way that Madara is vastly more superior to someone who literally had the same power as him.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, the difference between High end Continent level and low end Moon level is only 20 times, not 20000 times.

 

[Antvasima]

10^18 Tons of TNT versus 2x10^19 Tons of TNT.

 

[Joseph619]

That's exactly why Obito needs to be upgraded, otherwise the descrepancies in tiers don't make any sense. Obito and Madara are very close featwise

 

[Joseph619]

Also, the difference between High end Continent level and low end Moon level is only 20 times, not 20000 times.

Obito was 6B previously, which is only country level...

 

[Joseph619]

I agree with Joseph619. While Madara was "stronger", both of them were running on the same power, which was the Juubi's power. There's no way that Madara is vastly more superior to someone who literally had the same power as him.

Finally someone who gets it

 

[SwordSlayer99]

Well if were powerscaling Obito to Madara then shouldn't he get a speed upgrade as well?

RM Naruto is Mach 449+. Bm Naruto is way, way faster than RM (Probably around the Mach 500+ range). BSM Naruto is even faster than BM Naruto (Senjutsu roughly increases your power 10 fold) and Obito was capable of keeping up with BSM Naruto and Sasuke in his Susanoo.

Based on that Obito is probably around the Mach 600+ range. Madara is Mach 4,124.6+.

I doubt that Madara is 6.8+ times faster than Obito is. I have no doubt that Madara is faster than Obito is, but almost 7 times faster? No way.

Obito should be MHS+ via powerscaling to Madara.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Obito had serious troubles controlling the power, and was nearly torn to pieces in the attempt, whereas Madara easily managed the same feat.

 

[Joseph619]

Well if were powerscaling Obito to Madara shouldn't he get a speed upgrade as well?
RM Naruto is Mach 449+. Bm Naruto is way, way faster than RM (Probably around the Mach 500+ range). BSM Naruto is even faster than BM Naruto (Senjutsu roughly increases your power 10 fold) and Obito was capable of keeping up with BSM Naruto and Sasuke in his Susanoo.

Based on that Obito is probably around the Mach 600+ range. Madara is Mach 4,124.6+.

I doubt that Madara is 6.8+ times faster than Obito is. I have no doubt that Madara is faster than Obito is, but almost 7 times faster? No way.

Obito should be MHS+ via powerscaling to Madara.

Of course, don't forget Obito was blitzing the hell out of Minato, hashirama, Tobirama and BM Naruto, all of whom are either speedstars or have MHS reaction themselves (Hashirama dodged a TBB point blank IIRC). Obito was noted for his speed, he blitz more characters than anyone else

 

[Joseph619]

Well, Obito had serious troubles controlling the power, and was nearly torn to pieces in the attempt, whereas Madara easily managed the same feat.

Obito stomped everybody after he stabilized. Only reason he lost was because of CIS and PIS. Obito was chosen by Madara himself for the IT plan, no way Obito is that weak. Remember with a fraction of Obito's power Kakashi was able to blitz Kaguya. Obito was a tough cockroach and a victim of PIS

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you can change his speed to MHS+ as well, if you wish.

 

[Joseph619]

Well, you can change his speed to MHS+ as well, if you wish.

Will Obito blitzing Hashirama suffice? To blitz someone you need to be at least 3 times faster than than your opponent IIRC. Hashirama dodged a Mach 450+ bijudama with ease. Obito was leagues above Hashirama and Hashi was stunned by Obito's speed

 

[Antvasima]

Given that MHS+ only takes Mach 1000, and Madara was over Mach 4000, I think that it is safe to say that Obito is within the same level, even if he was a bit slower.

 

[Quincy_Emperor]

Wait a minute. Madara is not pouring energy into the meteors at all. He is creating something with gravitational pull and letting them form the meteors which do damage via dropping the rock with gravity.

I'm no expert, but to calculate Madara's actual potency. Wouldn't you need to find out the energy required to pull that much matter up, like Yhwach did to the Wandenreich? Because the act of dropping them taking no obvious energy from Madara, he simply allows it to drop, which is not his energy in the meteors.

I could be completely wrong like.

 

[Joseph619]

Given that MHS+ only takes Mach 1000, and Madara was over Mach 4000, I think that it is safe to say that Obito is within the same level, even if he was a bit slower.

Difference in speed should be minor. Madara wasn't that fast himself (he got blitzed by Sasuke, Naruto's lava FRS, and Might Gai literally manhandled him). Obito was doing really good until he became delusional and got owned by flashback and tnj

 

[Joseph619]

Wait a minute. Madara is not pouring energy into the meteors at all. He is creating something with gravitational pull and letting them form the meteors which do damage via dropping the rock with gravity.
I'm no expert, but to calculate Madara's actual potency. Wouldn't you need to find out the energy required to pull that much matter up, like Yhwach did to the Wandenreich? Because the act of dropping them taking no obvious energy from Madara, he simply allows it to drop, which is not his energy in the meteors.

I could be completely wrong like.

You're probably right. Chibaku Tensei keeps on growing by itself as it seems. I do believe all CT can become moon level if it's allowed to grow long enough. Pain was exerting energy on his Chibaku Tensei only because he was trying to contain Kurama, and Kurama was desperately trying to break out.

You can make a discussion thread about it if you want...

 

[SwordSlayer99]

"Wait a minute. Madara is not pouring energy into the meteors at all. He is creating something with gravitational pull and letting them form the meteors which do damage via dropping the rock with gravity.

I'm no expert, but to calculate Madara's actual potency. Wouldn't you need to find out the energy required to pull that much matter up, like Yhwach did to the Wandenreich? Because the act of dropping them taking no obvious energy from Madara, he simply allows it to drop, which is not his energy in the meteors.

I could be completely wrong like."

Yes but Madara himself is still putting energy into them.

If the user of the CT was not pouring energy into them, than all the CT would be the same. If you look at Nagato's CT and then Madara's you see that Madara's are literally thousands of times bigger than Nagato's. Which makes sense because Madara is far, far more powerful

The way I understand the CT is that the more Chakra / Energy you put into the graviational orbs, the bigger than CT's themself will be. Bigger CT = More energy to make.

 

[Joseph619]

Well I feel this thread should be locked, there's not much to discuss anymore. We don't wanna go off topic...