Nyx (Persona) ?

[DarkGrath]

This was an odd detail that I noticed when I was exploring some of the profiles for the Persona verse, which I'm sure there is some reason for. Why is it that the Nyx Avatar has a profile, but Nyx herself does not? It seems like Nyx, essentially being the "villain" of Persona 3 would make them quite important, especially if their far weaker avatar is considered important enough for a character page. Is there a reason she has never been added?

 

[Solacis]

1. They used to be the same thing.

2. There aren't enough details to give True Nyx a legitimate profile, afaik.

3. The pre-P4 side of this wiki is overall massively outdated. Even P4 itself is outdated, albeit to a lesser extent.

 

[DarkGrath]

Hm, I see. Well, since Nyx has been described by the likes of Igor as an "undefeatable foe", even though he has personally witnessed the likes of Philemon and Nyalarthotep, I would think that a Low 2-C rating for Nyx is the most logical.

 

[HST_Master]

I'd say Nyx is undefeatable because of being unable to die. SEES was capable of beating Nyx Avatar, but was incapable of killing him. But I do think Nyx, Makoto, Hamuko amd possibly the rest of SEES should be Low 2-C and I think Sera's Blog would cover this considering it's a verse wide overhaul.

 

[Jesterofgames]

I think SEES won't be upgraded to low 2-C even if Nyx does get upgraded.

 

[DarkGrath]

I imagine SEES as a whole wouldn't, but Makoto with the Universe Arcana managed to casually survive attacks from the true form of Nyx, so he'd probably scale (at least for having durability comparable to Nyx's AP).

 

[Jesterofgames]

Oh Minato/Makoto definitely scales if Nyx gets upgraded (it also makes Makoto/Minato vs Akira/Ren fair.)

 

[DarkGrath]

Yeah, though I agree that SEES won't scale since they only ever fought the Avatar. I have to admit though; Nyx does make the whole AP/Durability situation a bit complicated. If we assume AP and Durability to be equal, well... Makoto definitely doesn't have the AP to get past Nyx's Durability (having to rely on sealing) but he clearly has more than enough Durability to survive Nyx's AP.

 

[Zer00Negativo]

According to the databook (Persona 3 club book: world guide), Nyx is responsible for creating the Collective Unconscious that is basically the origin of all that is supernatural of the verse, people in antiquity in fear of death (Nyx) began to worship gods of their imaginations and these gods became real within the sea of souls and later gained the ability to manifest physically in the world through Persona-users, in other words Nyx is indirectly responsible for giving rise to religions, gods and other supernatural entities (this must include Nyarlathotep , Philemon and Yaldabaoth). "ah, a very good question. You see, when it originally only were hundreds or thousands of people wishing for death, the negative effect this had on the seal were only very small. After all, there are many more people than just that in the world, aren't there? The combined death-wish of these few thousand people did not suffice to break Nyx' binds. Moreover, people continued to give birth to abstract existences within the Collective Unconscious, which furthered the human evolution even more. To make it simple, this is what gave birth to mythology and religion. Certainly, you know many stories of malevolent deities or demons being defeated by benevolent deities of virtues, which protect our world? These existences we call "gods" protect the balance in the suppressed, unconscious parts of our psyche. Their providence plays an important role in strengthening the seal against Nyx." the guidebook also mentions other interesting things like.

All shadow games are a part of Nyx, including the inner Shadow of people, so Nyx exists within everyone and any thought about "death" makes Nyx strengthen within the person.

"Ikutsuki: On the previous page, I explained how Nyx was suppressed in the depths of the Collective Unconscious of all living beings, correct? In other words, Nyx is located in the deepest depths of the unconscious of the psyche of every single living being. - Now, I want you to picture the following: Assume that a certain living being, let us say, Junpei Iori-kun, for example, ends up thinking the following: "Oh man, I totally screwed up that test again~! How am I 'spossed to keep on living as such a loser?" The moment he has such thoughts on his mind, his unconscious would momentarily cease to resist Nyx. Now, what do you suppose would happen in such a case?

Aigis: If this were to happen, then the "Nyx" in Junpei-san's heart would surely emerge, even if just for a moment.

Ikutsuki: Exactly. The part of him that is "Nyx" would emerge from his unconscious into his conscious mind. These fragments of Nyx' psyche resting in our own are what Shadows truly are."

> shadow can not interact with the physical world being the only way to do this is to create their own space-time with different laws of time and space (Dark hour, midnight channel, mementos, etc.)

"Ikutsuki: es. Once a certain amount of Shadows has fused into a sufficiently powerful Shadow, it becomes able to access this potential. This power allows Shadows to manipulate space-time. As I have already explained to you earlier, Shadows gather in order to unite and return Nyx to power. However, unlike living beings, Shadows are existences of pure thought and emotion and do not possess a physical body. Thus, they usually cannot move or act freely in our world. In accordance with this, they need to create a sort of space outside of time, independent of the usual laws of space-time, in which, instead of human beings, Shadows can move freely. This can be accomplished with their ability to manipulate space-time.

Junpei: And that's the Dark Hour, huh?

Ikutsuki: Exactly! Created by the Shadow's latent abilities, the Dark Hour is a special state of space and time, that can not be interfered with by the usual laws of time and space. In return, this also means that the Shadows are unable to interfere with the living beings existing within normal space-time."

> Persona-users' abilities come from shadows

> Persona-users need to manipulate the space-time to enter the dimensions of the shadows.

"Aigis: In other words, the one ones who adapt, the ones with the "Potential", are those who are able to use the Shadow's power to time-space-manipulation for themselves?"

https://ask-persona.tumblr.com/post/99861586798/persona-3-club-book-world-guide-qa-translation/amp

https://ask-persona.tumblr.com/post/100095369103/persona-3-club-book-world-guide-qa-translation/amp

 

[Solacis]

-snip-

We already know this. All of us do. If people really want Nyx to be upgraded so badly then make a CRT. Just know that Nyx will be undergoing even more revisions even after the hypothetical CRT is concluded. The only reason she hasn't been revised already is because us knowledgeables are preparing for verse-wide revisions that'll affect not just Nyx, but every other Persona character on the wiki, plus any that we add later on.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Honestly slightly off topic. But out of all the character's getting revised I'm curious where all of SEES aside from Door-kun and the investigation team lands.

There are a ton of issue's with there stats (persona 4 gets hit hardest with this.) and they are missing hax and abilities.

 

[Solacis]

P3 and P4 cast in PQ2 should scale to Enlil, who scales to Yaldabaoth, Philemon and Nyarlathotep due to all of them being Administrators of the Collective Unconscious. Erebus, Izanami and Chronos would also scale due to sharing the exact same origins. Elizabeth would scale due to stomping Erebus and being comparable to Lavenza, who is superior to Caroline and Justine, who scale to stomping early Low 2-C Ren.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Interesting... wait does that mean universal SEES and Investigation team? Also what would there pre P2Q stats look like? (Out of curiosity would this make Door kun the strongest modern (post 2) persona protagonist or does joker still hold that spot? Probably best if you answer this question on my message wall to make sure we aren't derailing.)

 

[DarkGrath]

I'd imagine that, at an absolute minimum, the Persona 3 protagonist would have to be comparable to Ren. Ren stomped Yaldabaoth, Makoto survived attacks from Nyx though was otherwise seemingly not quite as powerful, and Nyx should be far, far more powerful than Yaldabaoth. The scaling chain here is a bit vague, admittedly, but I'm pretty sure Makoto would be considered stronger than Ren.

 

[Zer00Negativo]

I think it would be possible to classify as at least 2-B, because Persona 1 has a multiverse and uses the "theory of many worlds" and all share the same collective unconscious

 

[DarkGrath]

My apologies; though I consider myself to be quite knowledgeable on the Persona verse, I've never played Persona 1 and don't know much about it compared to every other game. I can't really provide an educated opinion on the "multiverse" thing, though if I'm being honest that doesn't sound like 2-B to me.

 

[Zer00Negativo]

is quoted openly the existence of a multiverse




kandori had power over all dimensions of it, and would create its own reality (and Pandora would destroy it).



and kandori was just a puppet of Nyarlathotep

 

[Solacis]

Should probably continue this on this thread, so we don't derail any further.