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Nuking Yogiri's plot manipulation and more (instant death)

Dark_Soul20189

Dark_Soul20189

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Hello and welcome back to the never-ending quest to make Instant Death get to the place it deserves to be. Today we will be looking over Plot manipulation and the rest of the abilities in that section

Verse - Instant death
Profile - Yogiri

The following is the justification for Plot Manipulation Yogiri's profile, as well as the verse itself.

Click to expand...

Problem is, that whole "meta-story" stuff is only a metaphor and an analogy Aoi used. You can see the dialogue in the novel here. No mention of "meta-story" either, also.

(People with high "fate value" are protected by a Meta-Story that makes them essentially become the protagonists of the world.
Click to expand...
Yogiri isn't protected by a Meta-Story, as explained above since it straight up doesn't exist, he's just the one standing at the end of all fate, hence all fates converge toward him.
"It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke.

それ は 袋小路 だっ た。 　 全て の 運命 の 行き着く 先 で あり、 そこ から 先 には 何 も ない。 全て の 終わり が そこ で 人 の 形 を 取っ て い た。 　 それ は 終焉 で ある から こそ、 最後 まで 立っ て いる 者 だ。 何者 も それ より 先 に 行く こと など でき は し ない。 　 そんな 者 を 相手 に、 運命 だの、 筋書き だの 戯れ言 にも なら ない"
Click to expand...

Aoi saw that every future and possibility leads to Yogiri's victory.
Click to expand...
It's more so that he's the destination of fate, so perhaps it gives a resistance, possibly.

Those with a lot of fate can't be killed even if their opponent is overwhelmingly stronger.
Click to expand...
Again, this one has nothing to do with Yogiri.

We should therefore remove Plot Manipulation from Yogiri's profile.

Next, let's start with the actual hard part to debunk, the feat of Yogiri resisting Yukimasa's power, but before we get into that, I think it's necessary for us to understand his power.
Plot Manipulation, Text Manipulation, & Fate Manipulation (Yukimasa's class is the Reader and according to the narration, the novel is a manifestation of his power that tells the story from the past into the future in first person perspective from Yukimasa's perspective as the "main character." There are other stories pertaining to other characters as "side characters" under the section of "side stories" written in third person perspective. Writing into his novel allows Yukimasa to erase or alter future events at his convenience, much like a writer
Click to expand...
To summarize his power, Yukimasa can see the past and future as a "story", and can alter it to a limited extent, to which he can change his own actions and events happening around him.

There are many limitations to his power, such as he can't contradict himself, and he has to hope that his own powers accept his writing.

Moreover, his power is straight up manipulating Fate, nothing more, nothing less.

So to conclude, his power has clear limitations and conditions to work, and he has no proof of suddenly making people stronger or making him able to defeat enemies that are much stronger than him, "Gods".

Now with that down the way, we can see clear limitations of his power, both in what they can and can't do, but also what they can actually do and how it works.

So let's take a closer look at Yogiri's resistance, shall we?
Yogiri resisted Yukimasa's power, and not only that but overwhelmed it to the point that the text written in the novel turned against Yukimasa himself and detailed his demise to Yogiri instead)
Click to expand...
This is all good and all, but that's simply a consequence of either Yogiri being the destination of all fates or Yogiri being stronger than him, more or less. Yogiri never interact directly with Yukimasa's power. Similarly, Yogiri's text manipulation should be removed since there is no such a thing happening.

TLDR - Removal of this entire section since it is based on a misunderstanding of how Yukimasa's ability works and what actually happens, and the other scans have no correlation to Yogiri at all.


Votes
Agree - @SweetDao, @The_golden_and_silver_house94, @BestMGQScalerEver, @Grabbing_dragon, @Mr. Bambu (Removal of plot Manipulation, and text manipulation from Yogiri. Is torn if it should be Passive fate manipulation or a resistance, leaning towards the first, but fine with both), @Hasty12345 (Plot manipulation), @Wikisource, @Astral_Trinity439, @BoastJr, @Digital_Franz, @Berga14, @Voidnether ( Everything - Resistance for fate manipulation),
Disagree -
Neutral
 
Last edited:
Yeah, obviously I'm fine with this, it was never a thing. Vehemently waiting for someone to bring up the Big Sister novels.
 
The_golden_and_silver_house94 said:
Doesn't this mean he is also the end of the plot ,plot hax exist in the fujitaka verse and he is the end of everything
Click to expand...
Proves that plot hax does exist in the verse, first and foremost.

Secondly, no, it was used simply because Fate was compared to plot, when you read under the lens of it being just "Fate" as a whole, it makes sense.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
If plot stuff is removed it should be passive fate manipulation and not resistance for being the destination all fates converge blah blah
Click to expand...
BestMGQScalerEver has shared his views, it's rover...

I still think it should be resistance tho, it's not like he's "actively" doing stuff to Fate, it's more like nothing can do shit against him, but then idk of the specificities, whatever is fine ultimtately.
 
SweetDao said:
BestMGQScalerEver has shared his views, it's rover...

I still think it should be resistance tho, it's not like he's "actively" doing stuff to Fate, it's more like nothing can do shit against him, but then idk of the specificities, whatever is fine ultimtately.
Click to expand...
I just see it as since all fates converge towards him as he’s the end of everything that there’s a sort of causal relationship between them. Just happens due to him being the end.
 
I just see it as them saying that since he is "The end of all things," All things will return to him at some point since everything has to die. So it has nothing to do with Fate manipulation or whatever.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
I just see it as since all fates converge towards him as he’s the end of everything that there’s a sort of causal relationship between them. Just happens due to him being the end.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but ultimately it does nothing if you assume it's passive fate manipulation? Like no one was "influenced" by fate converging toward him, at most Aoi was sick after learning this.

Also, if we take what UG said literally, it's more so that when around Yogiri, people able to read Fate are unable to do so:

image-2025-02-04-092035728.png
 
SweetDao said:
Yeah, but ultimately it does nothing if you assume it's passive fate manipulation? Like no one was "influenced" by fate converging toward him, at most Aoi was sick after learning this.

Also, if we take what UG said literally, it's more so that when around Yogiri, people able to read Fate are unable to do so:

image-2025-02-04-092035728.png
Click to expand...
It’d basically make him nigh undefeatable to anything that has fate as in the end they’d all return to him due to his nature as the end. Kinda weird ig I guess it’d be associated with the law instead of fate manip.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
It’d basically make him nigh undefeatable to anything that has fate as in the end they’d all return to him due to his nature as the end. Kinda weird ig I guess it’d be associated with the law instead of fate manip.
Click to expand...
Well, that is one interpretation I guess, here is my own.
Dark_Soul20189 said:
I just see it as them saying that since he is "The end of all things," All things will return to him at some point since everything has to die. So it has nothing to do with Fate manipulation or whatever.
Click to expand...
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
It’d basically make him nigh undefeatable to anything that has fate as in the end they’d all return to him due to his nature as the end. Kinda weird ig I guess it’d be associated with the law instead of fate manip.
Click to expand...
*night undefeatable to anything that has fate and operate under the rules of the World.
 
Click to expand...

Problem is, that whole "meta-story" stuff is only a metaphor and an analogy Aoi used. You can see the dialogue in the novel here. No mention of "meta-story" either, also.


(People with high "fate value" are protected by a Meta-Story that makes them essentially become the protagonists of the world.
Click to expand...
Yogiri isn't protected by a Meta-Story, as explained above since it straight up doesn't exist, he's just the one standing at the end of all fate, hence all fates converge toward him.
Click to expand...
The meta stuff here is seemingly just brought up as a means of explaining how the fate manipulation works, yeah. I agree with the removal of specifically plot manipulation.

Plot Manipulation, Text Manipulation, & Fate Manipulation (Yukimasa's class is the Reader and according to the narration, the novel is a manifestation of his power that tells the story from the past into the future in first person perspective from Yukimasa's perspective as the "main character." There are other stories pertaining to other characters as "side characters" under the section of "side stories" written in third person perspective. Writing into his novel allows Yukimasa to erase or alter future events at his convenience, much like a writer
Click to expand...
To summarize his power, Yukimasa can see the past and future as a "story", and can alter it to a limited extent, to which he can change his own actions and events happening around him.

There are many limitations to his power, such as he can't contradict himself, and he has to hope that his own powers accept his writing.

Moreover, his power is straight up manipulating Fate, nothing more, nothing less.

So to conclude, his power has clear limitations and conditions to work, and he has no proof of suddenly making people stronger or making him able to defeat enemies that are much stronger than him, "Gods".

Now with that down the way, we can see clear limitations of his power, both in what they can and can't do, but also what they can actually do and how it works.
Click to expand...
Again, I would conclude that the mentions of plot-related themes are just that, themes rather than actual mechanical functions. The distinction between plot and fate manipulation are subtle, and broadly to do with how transcendental they are of the reality they deal in. Nothing here suggests Yukimasa literally alters or reads the plot ahead of time- he just reads fate thematically as though it were a book. The presence of such extreme limitations, as you say, further suggest it isn't literally plot manipulation.

Plot Manipulation definitely can go, and Text Manipulation can go with it (for Yogiri).

As for what we list the remaining Fate stuff as... I'm not sure. I'm torn between it being a resistance or passive manipulation. At present I lean vaguely in favor of it being a passive manipulation, but either interpretation holds merit.
 
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