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Non-Gigantic Sword Range downgrades
- Thread starter ShadowWhoWalks
- Start date
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- Tags
- range
- 167,823
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I will handle it.
@AKM sama @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @SomebodyData @Andytrenom
What do you think should be done here?
@AKM sama @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @SomebodyData @Andytrenom
What do you think should be done here?
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Is just to not complicate the ratings, people is not going to pixel scale or investigate the length of any weapon they see; by writing melee range (uses x weapon) should be enough. Either way, that one character uses a bastard sword and another uses twin knives is rarely an advantage to one or another
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Shouldn't be that hard to determine a weapon's length by figuring out the weapon type tho, especially if we qualify which weapons qualify for which range, which we already do in the range page.
Pixel scaling should be a last resort for measuring weapon types IMHO.
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It is a huge advantage in range though. Dude with the knives is going to have to deal with the disadvantage of never being able to scratch the guy with the bastard sword without being in range, while the guy with the bastard sword has a nice sweetspot of 30 cm or so where he can safely attack without feat of retribution (relatively ofc).
Also, it's incredibly easy. Knives or short daggers, and possibly small maces = Melee Range, Literally anything else that isn't freakishly huge = Extended Melee Range
Also, it's incredibly easy. Knives or short daggers, and possibly small maces = Melee Range, Literally anything else that isn't freakishly huge = Extended Melee Range
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Pretty much this.
BTW, I think hatchets and tomahawks might also qualify for standard melee range, doesn't hurt to add as many examples as possible.
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A tomahawk is 60 cm long, definitely enough for extended melee range. Hatchet is around 45, which I still feel would be Extended. We definitely need to find a specific length to use as the threshold between Melee Range and Extended Melee Range, assuming it's being used by an adult of average build. A 210 cm tall dude could probably get EMR with a slightly smaller weapon.
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Really? I used to think wakizashi were longer than tomahawks.
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Wazikachi can go from 30 to 60 cm, so about the same at best. Then again, I just looked it up on Google, could be horribly wrong.
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Nah, wikipedia gives me the same thing.
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So EMR = 1 to 3 meters, and Several Meters = 3 to 10 meters?
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Yeah
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Got it.
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Personally, I consider standard melee range to apply mostly to punches and kicks. I definitely agree knives and daggers should still be standard and not extended. But I think it's important to note that when characters use swords, axes, clubs, and maces, we take the length of their arms and the length of their weapons into account. Which most standard swords would still be extended melee range by that logic. The high end Cloud's Buster Sword and Sephiroth's Masamune should be seen as extended melee range rather than several meters. So I don't mind extending Extended Melee Range's high end to 3 meters and thus several meters upgraded baseline that high.
And just a heads up, I would especially consider Pikes, Claymores, and Halberds to be Extended melee range as opposed to standard, but as I said, the current baseline of one meter and the fact that both the arm and weapon should be taken into account would mean most average sized swords would be extended melee range. Which honestly makes sense, considering that nearly every sword training class is teaching their students to "Think of the sword as an extension of themselves" which makes "Extended melee range" sound like a fitting name.
And just a heads up, I would especially consider Pikes, Claymores, and Halberds to be Extended melee range as opposed to standard, but as I said, the current baseline of one meter and the fact that both the arm and weapon should be taken into account would mean most average sized swords would be extended melee range. Which honestly makes sense, considering that nearly every sword training class is teaching their students to "Think of the sword as an extension of themselves" which makes "Extended melee range" sound like a fitting name.
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I agree however I would say that in Kingdom Hearts the Masamune is probably Several Meters, look at this thing.
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So is somebody willing to update our definitions accordingly then?
Also, please remember to link to this thread in the edit summary.
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Before that, it'd be nice to find the average arm length of an adult, so that we can subtract that from our baseline for EMR and SM.
For example:
Standard Melee Range: 50 cm - 1 m
For example:
Standard Melee Range: 50 cm - 1 m
- Applies to fighters using mostly their arms and legs as weapons.
- This includes short melee weapons, such as daggers, knives, knuckledusters, etcetera.
- Applies to fighters who utilize long melee weaponry or have otherwise short-ranged attacks that extend beyond normal human reach.
- It is measured, in the case of melee weaponry, by summing the arm's length to the weapon's length. In the case of an average adult, whose arm length is around 75 cm, the weapon must at least be 25 cm (almost 10 inches) to qualify for Extended melee range.
- Applies to weapons such as swords, flails, spears, axes, halberds and rifle bayonets.
- Applies to weapons that are designed to be utilized as throwing weapons such as shuriken, bombs, grenades, and chakrams.
- It can also apply to extremely long melee weaponry, such as the Macedonian Sarissa or Sephiroth (Kingdom Hearts)'s Masamune. When wielded by an average adult, a weapon must be at least 225 cm (88'5 inches) long to qualify for this level of range. It should also be kept in mind that unless shown otherwise, a polearm is not held by its very end, and as such its full length should not be used for this range.
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Those proposals look solid to me.
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Average arm length seems to be in the 75 cm range, so the weapon should have to be 25 cm long for EMR and 225 cm for SM. Edited that in my previous post.
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Ye, arm length is usually 43-44% that of body height (Percentages are rounded off but you get the drift)
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A really tall person could probably reach EMR by kicking, which feels really weird, but not incorrect, I suppose.
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Yeah well tall people be tall I guess
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I was thinking we could increase the threshold to 110 cm, that way the possibility of non-superhumanly tall people reaching EMS is more or less eliminated and weaponry needs to be longer to qualify, which I find more satisfying, but I don't really care one way or the other. Just wanted to put that out there.
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It's just an issue of copy/pasting my segment, right? Unless someone can think of a better rewording.
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Does anyone have any opinions on 100 cm vs 110 cm?
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100 cm seems better IMHO, you obviously don't hit people with your fingertips, you hit them with your fist closed, which would obviously take centimeters away from your total arm length even if you're a tall dude.
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I agree on the 100cm instead of 110cm
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Yeah, including finger tips looks weird, so I'd stick to 100 cm or 1 meter as the extended melee range baseline. And I think the proposal can be applied if it hasn't already.
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Range is locked. I'd ask for it to be unlocked, but with how trivial the edit is I feel like whoever does that can just edit that in instead.
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Wait hold on, if arm length normally counts fingertips the minimum weapon length should by raised by 5 cm or so to compensate.
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With regards to a weapon, depending on your grip style your fingers may extend to the full length to compensate for how you swing it around so I don't think it's necessary.
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Well, it's not like the entire hilt of a sword is also used either, but Unlocked range
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I also think putting it at 100cm; 1m will look more simple and cleaner than 105cm, or 1.05m
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I would suggest to consider fingertips and such as negligible.
