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Non-Corporeal = No Soul?

LordGriffin1000

LordGriffin1000

Awakened after 1000 years
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So I just saw Kurama (Kyübi) page and it says Immunity to Soul Manipulation (All Tailed Beast lack souls since they are just a mass of chakra) and the Shinju (Jübi) page says Immunity to Soul Manipulation (The Shinju is said to be Natural Energy itself).

I'm confused here. Since when was it decided Non-Corporeal beings had no soul by default?. Or is this just in Naruto because if that's the case there should be a scan that directly states because they are made up of these energies they have no soul. Neither our Soul Manipulation or Non-Corporeal pages state Non-Corporeal beings are immune to Soul Manipulation due to not having souls, hell it legit says Soul Manip is a way to kill a Non-Corp being if they have a soul and on the Soul Manip page it states we assume characters have souls unless stated or shown otherwise.

Lastly, doesn't the fact that Minato Namikaze used the Death Reaper Seal on Kurama (which removes and seals the soul) make this reasoning faulty for the Tailed Beasts?.

1. If it's a standerd that Non-Corporeal beings are immune to soul manip because they don't have souls then this should be mentioned on the Soul Manipulation and Non-Corporeal pages.

2. If there is a scan that directly states the tailed beast have no soul because the are made up of chakra or natural energy in the 10 tails case it should be linked to the profiles.

3. If this isn't a standerd and there is no statement in the verse that says they have no soul, this should be removed from there pages.
 
One can be non-corporeal and still have a soul, so no having it is not the standard. In fact, when being immaterial one can say that the only thing they got its spirit, unless they are information or nonexistents.

Not sure about the tailed beasts, chakra its chi + aura in the conventional sense, those are life-force/vitality that its the "superset" of souls. But that is all I known, do not known much about Naruto.
 
Um no all souls aren't made out of chakra. Boruto series proved that.

Reaper death seal also effects chakra of the user when they have a physical body because it's connected to their soul anyway.
 
If I'm not mistaken...

Bijuus are basically a Juubi chakra mass, which has been divided into 9 pieces and given them a physical body through Hagoromo's Banbutsu Souzo. So the Bijuus don't have a soul.

In Naruto, Chakra is part of the soul, but not in the case of Bijuus, as far as I've seen. Shiki Fujin basically removed half of Kurama's chakra mass (If I'm not mistaken, it was said to be much smaller than it was after that), because the Bijuus themselves are basically physically fit chakras.

I think this is it.
 
A soul manipulation ability just happens to remove chakra, so the ability really doesn't affect souls or removes chakra. It can't be both.
 
Kurama is a mass of chakra like all the other bijuus. When hiruzen sealed orochimarus arms he mentioned that he is sealing part of his soul. When Minato used the same jutsu on kurama, he noted that he was sealing kuramas chakra not his soul.
 
Shiki Fujin is a technique used to sealing something in the Shinigami's stomach, in exchange for your soul.

I don't remember her being specific to just someone's soul.
 
@MostPowerfull

Them being divided parts of another being doesn't mean they don't have souls. You need actual proof they don't have a soul like a statment or a move that effects the soul not working on them, being a mass of energy is not enough.
 
@Lord

Well ... I also have my doubts about that and agreed with you.

But the fact is, Bijuus are just a mass of chakra, which had its physical form given by Hagoromo.
If a chakra mass has a soul or something, I've never heard of it either. But it seems to me like the case of "Viruses have no soul" like Alex Mercer or something.

Like, Alex Mercer is a man-shaped virus.
Bijuus are beast-shaped energy.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
@MostPowerfull
Them being divided parts of another being doesn't mean they don't have souls. You need actual proof they don't have a soul like a statment or a move that effects the soul not working on them, being a mass of energy is not enough.
Click to expand...
Can you provide proof that humans have souls?
 
AstralKing7 said:
I guess Hag should have soul manipulation then when u think about it
Click to expand...
Yes, he'd have soul manipulation, though I thought that was already on his page?.
 
Wrath Of Itachi said:
Bijuu aren't Non-Corporeal.
Click to expand...
I know, they are a mass of chakra with physical form. I'm talking about how it states on thier page because thay are made up of nothing but chakra/energy that means they don't have souls.
 
That's not the only reason, I stated above the main reason why they don't have souls. Minato's reaper death seal was stated to seal off kuramas chakra, while Hiruzen stated he was going to seal Orochimarus soul. Same with when he resurrected the Five Kage.
 
Just because it sealed of its chakra doesn't mean it didn't get it's soul. It never states they have no soul, this just means the Death Reaper Seal can effect chakra and the soul.
 
Again, him sealing Kurama's chakra doesn't mean Tailed Beast have no soul. This just means one can seal chakra and the soul with the technique. It would need to specifically state they have no soul.
 
Yes it does. Like I said above the jutsu makes a clear distinction between the two. The author doesn't need to spell everything out for use, he has the jutsu sealing both chakra and souls.
 
But that doesn't prove they don't have souls!, it just means you can seal the soul and chakra with that technique and yes, the author does need to spell it out when it comes to things like this since I still see no evidence of them not having souls.

You're evidence is simply that the user can seal the soul and chakra, Tailed Beast are chakra with a physical form. How does that prove they don't have souls?. Minato did not state he only could seal Kurama's chakra because he had no soul. He sealed Kurama's chakra because the technique could also seal chakra.
 
My evidence is that Hiruzen stated that he was sealing Orochimaru's soul, while Minato stated that he was sealing Kuramas chakra. If Kurama really did have a soul like you claim, why was Minato's statement different from Hiruzens? You're bringing nothing to this conversation at all. You should try and to provide evidence that they do have a soul if you want this discussion to go anywhere.

>yes, the author does need to spell it out when it comes to things like this

It's funny that you bring this up since I could go through majority of these profiles that only have statements backing up feats, not to mention this was already accepted based off the evidence I have provided in the thread I linked above. If you haven't read the thread I would encourage you do so.
 
For one the bijus don't have souls because u can prove it by the jins. People think chakra and souls are always connected. Naruot was supposed to have died with Kurama was extracted because it was connected to his soul and Naruto was dying but his soul didn't get taken also.

Minato is another example. When he gave Naruto the other Kurama his soul didn't leave his body even tho him and Kurama were connected.

Biju are only chakra they don't have any souls.
 
Despite Bijuu being "mass of Chakra", they aren't just a mass of Chakra.

They have a conscious. They think, they bleed, they have bones, they can be affected by soul based abilities like the Reaper Death Seal and have biological functions. They're living beings.

I don't see how they have immunity to soul manipulation when a soul manipulation ability works on them.
 
Several other characters think and have a physical body, with common physical functions and have no soul. Take Sam Winchester as an example, he is a living being who still has no soul for several episodes.

Having a physical body and physical functions does not mean that it has soul. I have my doubts about Bijuus having no soul, but this argument is basically ridiculous. And Shiki Fujin is a sealing technique, not soul specific.

The fact is ... Just like a usual robot, Bijuus are made of pure energy. Energy has soul? Not usually ... Does a robot have a soul? Usually not.
 
Eh, robot aren't made of energy, and made of energy do not means that the character have no soul. Take this into account: soul its the immaterial and immortal essence of the livings, the principle behind though and feelings, it may also makes one to discern between good and evil; so a being without it is apathic that do not act beyond its nature and instincts.
 
@Antoniofer

I thought I had written that robots are made of technology, metal and so on. But I think you could understand!

Thoughts and mind have nothing to do with the soul itself. In fact, half of my doubts about whether or not Bijuus have a soul come from the fact that they have feelings and so on, but I've seen examples of robots and soulless characters that have feelings, like Wall-E and Alex Mercer. Sam Winchester not only did he act instinctively or according to his nature, he was apathetic, but in fact he thought and felt. However, the Bijuus are still made of pure energy.

So I don't know what to really think! On the one hand, we have feelings and so on. On the other, we have characters made of pure energy.
 
Juubi itself is natural energy of the world. That's all it's made of. The tailed beasts are nothing but split portions of the juubi with conscious.

Anyone who can split the tailed beasts should have soul manipulation since some people believe they have souls even tho Juubi itself doesn't have a soul. When Kaguya and Obito were defeated they tailed beasts got split out of the juubi. When Naruto cut Obito the tailed beasts started to split...now that I think about it that's soul Manipulation for the same reason as hag who split them
 
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