Noctis vs Bayonetta

[Bware1]

Bayonetta FRA

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[Theglassman12]

@Crimson jesus you're not reading what I'm saying. I said that the cutscenes show what she starts off with in character. In character she starts off with witch time and using her guns. Where did she ever use the items that negates and reflects attacks in character, AKA something that she would lead with early on in a fight rather than leave it as a last resort?

@Weekly and where in the fight did he try to use the timestop again to affect her while using the lolipop, only it failed?

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Nd yes you are only taking cutscenes into consideration, that doesnt work for rpg characters like noctis and bayo who have such a wide variety of equipment that they logicslly could not use all of it in a limited timeframe of the story and still have a coherent storyline,the same goes for characters like dante and sora

@glass

 

[Theglassman12]

>>>RPG characters

>>>Bayonetta


I didn't know that Bayonetta was an RPG.

So we're just going to ignore that whole thing with "what the character uses in character" and just say that whole "they can't use everything in the story" argument despite both Noctis and Bayonetta have shown what their preferred abilities and mindset is time and time again throughout the story. Fantastic.

Dante is not even a good example to use when the series has shown time and time again what his in character mindset and abilities are.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

So because they don't "lead with it" It's useless and doesn't matter so since bayo never uses this stuff in cutscenes so bayo can only use her guns and time slow is basically what you're saying

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bayonetta is technically an rpg yes

And yes, for rpg characters we do ignore it, we also do so for characters from veses like soulsborne and pokemon

 

[HST_Master]

I'd argue the charge time for Alterna can be negated via his own summons protecting him, since he can either summon them or they appear independent like Shiva or Garuda and his Death Spell is very viable as well. Also Noctis does indeed use several weapons on the fly. That's his schtick and even his Armigir shows that when he switches out of each royal arm for each strike automatically. Even his own boss fight has him switch out weapons throughout. And Bayo and Dante are not even RPG characters. They have a clear showing of what they start with in cutscenes.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Crimson Nice another strawman.

I never said she never leads with it. I said Where did she ever use the items that negates and reflects attacks in character, AKA something that she would lead with early on in a fight rather than leave it as a last resort?

Using something as a last resort is not related to never using it

@Weekly Yeah here's the thing, Pokemon and Soulsbourne are not the same thing as Final Fantasy, where the characters in that verse has a clear mindset of what they use in battle based off what's shown in their own stories as opposed to the former two who has self inserts that leads off with whatever they choose.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

We do the same thing for final Fantasy as well my guy

 

[Theglassman12]

like who, Noctis? The same guy who has a defined in character ability that's shown in his story and has used so many times in the game?

 

[Modernmyrmidon]

Bayonetta FRA

 

[WeeklyBattles]

like who, Noctis? The same guy who has a defined in character ability that's shown in his story and has used so many times in the game?

Yes, every character in ff gets rhis treatment

 

[Theglassman12]

No they don't. Characters that have shown in their own storylines what their mindset and in character moves are do not get that treatment since we know what they start off in character and what they save for last.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They...do though, look through any thread with cloud or lightning or sephiroth, they all get that treatment

 

[Theglassman12]

And I can point to the villains in FF1, the villains in FF3 and the main cast in FF3 as them showing to have a canon mindset of what they do in battle. So again they all do not get the same treatment, only a handful, and Noctis is part of the group that doesn't get that treatment.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'd make a crt for this as asking around they do in fact currently get this treatment

 

[Theglassman12]

Only if no one knows what they do in character. Fortunately I'm going through the series as we speak so I'll know what it is the characters do and do not do in character.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Cool, that contradicts our current rules for rpg characters, so i would recommend making a crt about this if you want your argument to even be considered.

 

[Theglassman12]

and which rule would that be, cause I can't seem to find it in the versus thread rules

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

There's no rule for that, at all. We treat them like that if we don't know their in-fight mindset. If we do, we use it, simple as that.

 

[HST_Master]

^ This. If they don't have a clear showing of what they do in character, then then we do that. Bayonetta and Noctis both have a clear showing of what they do.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Then what is the issue here? Bayo in character spams all of her weapons

 

[Theglassman12]

not the ones you listed like Attack Negation or Reflection since those aren't what she uses right off the bat. She uses her guns and witch time at the start and eventually works her ways with the other weapons. Which isn't going to help her against a dude who's whole mindset is swap weapons on the fly, and some of those weapons have effects she does not resist at all.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Bayo in character starts with Time Slow and Scarborough Fair/summons afaik. Where does the "she spams all of her weapons in character" comes from?

Also, OP links to Bayonetta (Verse) instead of Bayonetta (Character). Someone should fix that.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because she canonically switches weapons when she sees Scarborough Fair isn't working

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

if only people would accept Dante from DMC uses other weapons that easily

 

[Theglassman12]

Noctis canonically swaps weapons out on the fly, which is just faster than Bayonetta's swapping.

 

[NostalgiaTrip]

I have to agree. Noctis weapons do change quickly, sometimes immediately (If your holding down the attack buttong) or less than a second if your just switching randomley.

Although sometimes, if he's going for a crit, time does appear to slow down when he's switching to a second weapon.

 

[NostalgiaTrip]

Armiger allows for almost instant spamming of Noctis's 13 Royal Arms. I don't know how fast it is... just that he never stays in one place for more than half a second.

Kind of looks a bit like Minato's Hirashin.

 

[Bware1]

Bump

 

[Amexim]

Bayo doesn't seem to lead off with the stuff that would help her resist Noctis's Hax. The argument isn't that she doesn't use them, it is that she doesn't start with them, like Weekly is claiming for Alterna and Death against Noctis. I vote Noctis for better win cons. This is a good fight tho

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Just looking for now.

 

[Bware1]

Bayo doesn't seem to lead off with the stuff that would help her resist Noctis's Hax. The argument isn't that she doesn't use them, it is that she doesn't start with them, like Weekly is claiming for Alterna and Death against Noctis. I vote Noctis for better win cons. This is a good fight tho

Vote Counted

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Grace period has passed btw, this can be added

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bayo doesn't seem to lead off with the stuff that would help her resist Noctis's Hax. The argument isn't that she doesn't use them, it is that she doesn't start with them, like Weekly is claiming for Alterna and Death against Noctis. I vote Noctis for better win cons. This is a good fight tho

She leads with the Yellow Moon Lollipop which nopes everything in his arsenal

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Noctis canonically swaps weapons out on the fly, which is just faster than Bayonetta's swapping.

Bayo's weapons switch with a thought my guy, he doesnt switch them faster

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Hold on, when has she lead with that?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There is a mechanic specifically built into the game that lets you lead with a lollipop pre-activated after every cutscene

 

[Amexim]

Even the claim that she uses the lollipops in cutscenes is dubiously Bull. She eats normal lollipops all the time, yeah. Also, no. She doesn't lead with that. She doesn't even know his power set to go for that off the bat. What's worse is that you conveniently want to shut down the conversation to have this be added... Yikes. Whatever.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Weekly Firstly I'm still arguing here so it shouldn't be added.

Secondly no she hasn't lead with Yellow lolipop at all over witch time and gun legs.

Thirdly, Noctis swaps out with a thought too, difference is he does this a lot more than Bayonetta so again that's a moot point there.