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Nipponverse CRT: multipliers, new keys, and more.

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So this CRT will be about adding various thing to the pages that are missing and fixing things that are wrong.

1st: is a listing strength upgrade. currently pre Steller scaling to shooting an arrow so hard that is drags planets behind it. but with disgaea 5's galaxy commit we see the user pulls a galaxy up to them turns it into an arrow for their bow and fires it with ease. I think this would make the 3-Bs, to 2-As Galactic lifting strength.

2nd: laharl's scaling to alexander should be removed. while at the time it did make sense. but after resent event in disgaea rpg. Laharl loses a 1v1 fight with a casual Petta as shown here at full power she is not only confused with Zetta but is strong enough to vaporize an angered restricted Pram. Now another thing that would debunk the alexander scaling is the fact we see Mao who is been shown to be on par with a post disgaea d2 laharl is only able to stalemate a restricted pram. I think this is enough to warrants removing the alexander scaling. Though laharl and characters that scale to him should get a a post disgaea d2 key that scales to restricted Pram, while late game scales to to beating Baal.

3rd: Is a correction needed for the carnage keys for generic classes. Currently the are scaling to the carnage horsemen who speed blitzed, one shot, and Rag dolled the late game disgaea 5 cast. the issue here is disgaea 5 shows that horsemen appear to be inherently be overlord lvl as in disgaea 5's story he see a horsemen not only threatens but beats a overlord class demon to near death, Though it was a 2v1 fight as accepted here that their stats are 20 times higher than base demons. This is backed by a character that can scan stats saying that. So the base Carnage Dimension key should read (At their weakest they are on par with late game Zeroken.), And they could get a carnage overlord key should be stated at (At their weakest they are 20x stronger fodder level Carnage demons, at their strongest they are comparable to Carnage dark.)

So with this the current at least 2.348 Sextillion c that the 2-As upscale from would be upgraded and to 46.96 sextillion scaling to the carnage horsemen, and carnage overlord Prinny.

so the horsemen as shown above should have their stats changed to being 20x higher for being as strong as overlord/majin class demons baseline.

4th: the disgaea 4 cast should be strait 2-A in all their keys. as disgaea rpg goes more into Desco's feat of taking down a post disgaea 2 axel (who down scales from adell) was reduced to nothing more then charcoal that was blown away by the wind. this would put them at a solid 2-A at the start of disgaea 4. (Though axel regenerates off screen)

and lastly overlord baal. he needs a new part added to justification added for his 2-A. Do to disgaea RPG we had baal's minion unleash a weapon called the prinny bomb a weapon that can destroy the multiverse through the malice of over 10k prinnies. this is impotent as in arc 1 Anecdote has Gordon, Jennifer, Thursday, Kurtis, Almaz, Sapphire, and The Vato Bros infiltrate the prinny bomb and starts to fight the malice that powers it. (2-A) but while fighting it baal sent a part of his power into a prinny to make in a makeshift prinny baal that is stated to be the strongest thing they have ever seen yet which includes the 2-A malice they were fighting. So baal should have (Even with a small part of his power Baal is stronger then the Prinny bomb which can Destroy the multiverse) added to his page.
 
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Okay, so.

1. Lifting strength upgrade definitely seems fine.

2. Laharl is fairly inconsistent, especially since he constantly makes excuses and rarely, if ever, puts everything into a fight (like he did at the climax of his games).

I actually remember there being a statement about Laharl's power in D6, and I'd like to check back on that if possible. I also need to see which point in time D6 Laharl is supposed to he (since reusing his D1 outfit/no Sicily makes things confusing)

I'll come back to Laharl's scaling and justifications.

3. Adjusting the carnage demons scaling looks okay from what I can see.

4. I played through this in DRPG and it checks out. Will this also affect the scaling chain at all?

5. I can't comment on this as I haven't played through the act 1 anecdote fully yet.
 
2: for d6 I am not sure how they would scale. since from what I remember it is implied the Zed beat them so hard that laharl flat out admitted that he was beaten the only times he ever does that was when he gets stomped my someone. Though I do recall they put Baal in d6 above the pre-regenerated GoD. So that might keep the alexander scaling. though we find out that alexander was left in a weakened state after the events of petta mode.

4: All it will really do it make the d4 cast and those that above them go from being able to one shot late game d2 cjharacters to vaporizing them.

5: If this turns out this is not what I think it is. We could just add the statement that he would be able to replicate the power of the prinny Bomb.
 
For scaling, you have to remember that Laharl from DD2 had defeated Petta at some point before she met Zetta since she was looking for him.

It's likely that Petta has just become stronger since DD2, as the Makai Kingdom RPG event takes place quite some time after the events of Makai Kingdom. The characters themselves acknowledge the gap in time since their last appearance.

I'm not sure if this information helps much with scaling or makes things more confusing, however. Though I'll double check Laharl in D6 soon (we may need to translate the original text in some cases if possible, though).
 
the main issue from what we know petta is far above laharl. Laharl has never been able to beat Zetta and restricted Pram has always just messed with him and toyed with laharl. So Laharl beating Petta in DD2 is clearly PiS, or a massive outlier since he has never constantly taken on characters on the level of Petta and Zetta. Heck even going with the official translation of petta mode she was not at full power until the end of the story. implying laharl never fought a full powered petta only a heavily weakened one. So he does not get scaling to her in the first place.
 
Wait, but by the Nipponverse's own rules, and how all bad/good ends basically "exist" to some extent, that means Laharl is capable of destroying Zetta's body (albeit with Baal's soul within it). So, Laharl does have high-end showings and statements that at least make him compable to the stronger of the NIS characters.

As I've said before, scaling is all over the place because of the nature of the series, but I think the fact that all the Disgaea protagonists are decently even with one another by the time DRPG rolls around, means that everyone is stronger by some extent by the time the App game takes place. Maybe they'll need another Key for DRPG just to prevent scaling from becoming a nightmare.

Even Laharl and Zed seem far more comparable in DRPG unlike in D6 where Laharl definitely got beaten. Also, from Disgaea 6's Data Shop about Laharl, it says,
"Hidden in that tiny body is a physical and magical might so brutal, it's said to rank in among the Top 5 among all Netherworld beings."

So there are statements to support that Laharl is at least comparable to the top tiers, at his strongest.
 
the issue is the even if we use that it would not be useable since it is a massive outlier as laharl never shows that level of power again or to be able to even damage zetta again, and that statement is flat out wrong though he is not the 5th strongest. their are far more stronger then him and I will list some of them them. laharl is weaker then the d2 cast, d4 cast, killia, void , Goldion, renya, Buddha, Hades, Zeus, Prince Yamato, Haephnes, Drazil, Gig, True zenon, Rutile, Hugo, Des-X, Nimo, the 3 brutes, the 4 Devas, the 7 Yakshas, the 10 overlords, god/god's part, Petta. and most of these beings live in the netherworld. so no he is not the 5th strongest. heck by disgaea RPG he might even be weaker most of the d5's main cast as well. considering flonne, and etna who are on par with him need help from the player who we see is able to stalemate Tyrant Revelio killia thanks to the character gate, and the killia vs killia vs kilia raid, and post d4 Val to be able to beat them so the PC, and Val were likely carrying them though most of that. laharls most consistent showings are within at best the mid teir of the 2-As.

heck scaling laharl to that feat with zetta would be like if we used Priere punching gig as a reason to make her god tier. when she is most consistently shown as as a high tier of the 2-As,
 
Again, my problem with your scaling is that Laharl almost never, if ever, has gone all out in the same way that he did against Lamington. He almost never fights with full killing intent, except for when he fought Lamington and that could also explain Baal/Zetta Baal. Even then, almost every postgame fight in DD2 is an outlier by your logic, solely because you don't scale Laharl that high.

Also, it's hard to refute a WoG statement. Even if he doesn't seem like it, the game itself states his power to be at that level in his character description. This isn't some hype line from a character or Laharl himself. It's the in-game description of Laharl.

I don't necessarily think that things like Character Gates should take precedence over the main/event stories in Disgaea RPG.

If I have to read through the DRPG story I will, but as of right now you're trying to argue against the most recent in-series statement, made well after everything except for the events in DRPG. For that reason alone, I disagree with scaling Laharl that low.
 
it is not a WoG statement. it flat out says it is said he is the 5th. meaning it is nothing but hearsay. also he goes all out a lot of the time. so this looks to be you wanting him to be stronger then he is. he has gotten his ass kicked regularly by most and is consistently shown to be the weakest disgaea lead next to mao. Also your "WoG" is easily debunked by D6 itself. the d6 cast is on par with zed who stomped him. that is 7 characters stronger then him. not including list i gave you.

also on this site WoG statements are not taken as face value. if it contradicts what is consistently shown it is disregarded. and laharl being the 5th strongest in the verse is not constants with his shown to being a best mid level of the 2-As. as well does not follow with what would go on. that would make him stronger then gig, true zenon, and characters like drizel. characters who would stomp every disgaea characters with ease. Heck base renya who is 11th strongest stomped laharl to the point laharl said he lost. something he says when he known he can't win. this is a laharl at the strongest we have seen him and he is stomped by a guy that is only slightly stronger then post d4 Val in power. Flat out laharl is no where close to that claim.
 
If this was about me wanting my favorites to be stronger, I'd be arguing Fuka and Desco are the strongest in the verse lol

I don't know when I'll have the time to respond, but there's plenty of examples of how circular and confusing Disgaea scaling is. Hell, scaling between 2, 4, and 1 alone is a nightmare because everyone defeats one another or gets wrecked in cameos only to apparently do better against someone more impressive the next time.

Like I said, I'd like to go more in-depth into my reasoning, but I simply do not have the time right now.
 
also their is a newer WoG for DRPG JP. with Primeval Overlord Killia stating he is the strongest of the d1-d5 leads. which would make him 12 strongest in the verse. so in laharl is 5th strongest then why is he stated to also be weaker then the 12th strongest?
 
What is the OP seems fine; the statement being top 5 is necessarily a word of God, and it does seem like it is proven wrong. Though, I am open to waiting for OverlordDonnelly's new arguments.
 
Also upon looking as the scaling chain. the laharl downgrade is not even as massive as I thought, going from link 60 on the chain to like 53. Basically putting him from stronger then all of maki kingdom's supporting cast. to still being in their power range at his highest. this going by his base form. we know in JP DRPG that he has a new transformation but we do not know where it puts him yet. and it would be a new key. heck all 6 leads will need keys for their new forms. as we get info on them.

Edit: Also just going by the boosts from Nether Enhancement, and killia's training. would make laharl's DRPG self at least 2.4 times stronger than his late game dd2 self.
 
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I will get back to this, I'll just need a day or two since I've had bad luck with my drafts getting erased while linking things in the past. Due to that, I'll have to get my ancient laptop running to make a proper response.

I strongly appreciate your patience.
 
it is fine take your time.
Though after rewatching the zed vs laharl fight. it does seem closer to what I remembered it being while laharl did say he was beaten it does support him beating alexander since Zed is far stronger the then GoD who is stronger then alexander. So on second though his late game key can go unchanged as there was not a big power boost going from D1 to DD2.

and if we go with a DRPG key considering the PC's training, killia's training, adell's training, NE, reincarnation, and later on every one getting super reincarnation. would explain any big power boosts given. since from what they claim the PC is really good at untapping their potential.
 
Also we should add what zed's super reincarnation grants. since basically every character after the carnage demons would scale. it can great an +4 movement which going by what has been accepted here, and here are stat boosts to speed by 20% for a +1 to movement. that would make it a 80% boost to speed, making the 46.96 sextillion into 84.528 sextillion c.as well granting a 3x damage boost
 
so another thing I forgot to add for more speed stuff. The chara world which lets characters 3-A to 2-A boost their stats by going though the chara world. the most notable boost is the +2 Movement which would give them an extra 40% to speed. making that 84.528 sextillion c into 118.339 Sextillion C. and other pure flonne from DD2. this is a form where she temperately archangel lvl power. We do find out this form in disgaea 5 grants a 30% boost to all stats. and everyone in DD2 can scale to this. making the 118.339 Sextillion C to 153.84 Sextillion C.
 
so another thing I forgot to add for more speed stuff. The chara world which lets characters 3-A to 2-A boost their stats by going though the chara world. the most notable boost is the +2 Movement which would give them an extra 40% to speed. making that 84.528 sextillion c into 118.339 Sextillion C. and other pure flonne from DD2. this is a form where she temperately archangel lvl power. We do find out this form in disgaea 5 grants a 30% boost to all stats. and everyone in DD2 can scale to this. making the 118.339 Sextillion C to 153.84 Sextillion C.
This speeds sem fine.
Since there have been no reply for a while, I would fine if the agreed changes were applied.
 
Alright. So with all the pages being effected by this. it will be a bit of a slow prosses. but I will try to be as fast as I can.
 
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