New Ability for Goku: Resistance to Time-Stop/Manipulation

[Goodyfresh]

snip

Nah.

Hmmmm. . . .indeed, I stand corrected on that.


What does this mean, then? What exactly IS Hit's time-stop power, how does it have different "levels," and what does this mean about Goku's resistance to such hax?? Obviously he does have SOME resistance to time-stop. . .but to what extent? We really don't have any way to know if his resistance would work against, say, Dio Brando's The World. Damn. . . . . .

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yeah, that's the problem. There was a moment in which he became immune to the power, but since increasing the potency of the same power made Goku vulnerable to it again, it's difficult to define as what exactly the resistance is to and to what extent it works.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

No I'd agree if Goku were not frozen in time right afterwards with no proper explanation other than showing hit freeze him.But eh it's dragon ball

 

[Goodyfresh]

I mean it would be really nice though to be able to give Goku some level of hax-resistance >_< Hahaha. You know what I mean, guys. And he obviously does have some level. But like Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said, it's very hard to tell "what exactly the resistance is to and to what extent it works."

This really doesn't even seem to make sense. How can there even be "different levels of time-stopping?" That's Akira Toriyama's writing for you. . .as usual, there's no real logic whatsoever, he always just wings it, hahaha. If it weren't always so BADASS I'd have a major problem with it, yaknow?

I'm inclined to say though that if there IS an explanation, it's something like this: Time still moves for Hit within the stopped-time space that he creates with his power, just like for Dio or Jotaro or anybody else who stops time. At first, Goku managed to break through into that space that Hit perceives, thus also moving within stopped time. So for his new-and-improved Time Stop, Hit DOUBLY stops time and enters a further layer of stopped-time-space within the original stopped-time-space, that Goku no longer has enough power to break into. Presumably, somebody with even greater levels of power than Goku, like Beerus, could have broken into the double-layered stopped-time as well, and countered Hit.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Seems most likely that rather than Goku having some time hax resistance or grace period from time attacks, that Hits time stop ability is powered by Ki and you need to use some amount of Ki relative to the Ki or physical power of the target in order to stop them. Goku pushed through it the first time because he powered up and the amount of Ki Hit was using wasn't enough anymore.. and then he increased the amount of Ki and bam suddenly it works.


So it's not a hax resistance feat rather than just another 'power level' feat.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Seems most likely that rather than Goku having some time hax resistance or grace period from time attacks, that Hits time stop ability is powered by Ki and you need to use some amount of Ki relative to the Ki or physical power of the target in order to stop them. Goku pushed through it the first time because he powered up and the amount of Ki Hit was using wasn't enough anymore.. and then he increased the amount of Ki and bam suddenly it works.

So it's not a hax resistance feat rather than just another 'power level' feat.

I mean sure it is powered by Ki, but it's still actual time-stop hax, dude. The definition of time-stop hax is that the guy can stop time for his opponent while still moving himself. Against any opponent up to a certain level of power, he can stop time.

What this also shows is something about the mechanics of powers in DBZ: That high-level (Godly) Ki can allow for time-stop hax and/or resistance to such hax!

Just because the hax is powered by a non-typical mechanismm for such hax, does not mean it isn't still hax. Nobody really even questions the fact that Hit has time-stop hax, dude.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Seems most likely that rather than Goku having some time hax resistance or grace period from time attacks, that Hits time stop ability is powered by Ki and you need to use some amount of Ki relative to the Ki or physical power of the target in order to stop them. Goku pushed through it the first time because he powered up and the amount of Ki Hit was using wasn't enough anymore.. and then he increased the amount of Ki and bam suddenly it works.

So it's not a hax resistance feat rather than just another 'power level' feat.

I mean sure it is powered by Ki, but it's still actual time-stop hax, dude. The definition of time-stop hax is that the guy can stop time for his opponent while still moving himself. Against any opponent up to a certain level of power, he can stop time.
What this also shows is something about the mechanics of powers in DBZ: That high-level (Godly) Ki can allow for time-stop hax and/or resistance to such hax!

Just because the hax is powered by a non-typical mechanismm for such hax, does not mean it isn't still hax. Nobody really even questions the fact that Hit has time-stop hax, dude.

I'm not arguing about whether Hit has time stop hax, I'm arguing that breaking out of it is based on overpowering a Ki technique with your own Ki output, and thus it isn't a time hax related resistance feat and doesn't translate at all over to resisting time hax that have nothing to do with Ki, like magic powers or whatever.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Seems most likely that rather than Goku having some time hax resistance or grace period from time attacks, that Hits time stop ability is powered by Ki and you need to use some amount of Ki relative to the Ki or physical power of the target in order to stop them. Goku pushed through it the first time because he powered up and the amount of Ki Hit was using wasn't enough anymore.. and then he increased the amount of Ki and bam suddenly it works.

So it's not a hax resistance feat rather than just another 'power level' feat.

I mean sure it is powered by Ki, but it's still actual time-stop hax, dude. The definition of time-stop hax is that the guy can stop time for his opponent while still moving himself. Against any opponent up to a certain level of power, he can stop time.
What this also shows is something about the mechanics of powers in DBZ: That high-level (Godly) Ki can allow for time-stop hax and/or resistance to such hax!

Just because the hax is powered by a non-typical mechanismm for such hax, does not mean it isn't still hax. Nobody really even questions the fact that Hit has time-stop hax, dude.

I'm not arguing about whether Hit has time stop hax, I'm arguing that breaking out of it is based on overpowering a Ki technique with your own Ki output, and thus it isn't a time hax related resistance feat and doesn't translate at all over to resisting time hax that have nothing to do with Ki, like magic powers or whatever.

Except don't most systems of magic in fiction, as well, utilize "energy from within the body?" For example, Stand Powers like The World in Jojo. So I don't see why if Ki from Dragon Ball can overcome time-based techniques, it couldn't be used to break through those techniques as well as long as Goku has much, much more energy within him than the person using the time-stop.

 

[Antvasima]

So do other staff members think that "Possibly very limited resistance to time-stopping" might be an acceptable addition?

 

[FictionalBlade101]

There are many characters in fiction that are able to move during time stop as well Goku doing it this time isnt the first time it has been done.

Zeref from Fairy Tail can move during a time stop. I dont see him getting either Infinite Speed or resistance to Time Stop

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Ant I don't know how we're going to gauge the effectiveness of a users timestop but I guess as a possibly it's ok?

 

[Aimenaltair]

Let's make it an outlier guys and never mention it again, because I can see this debate goi'g on forever.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Ant I don't know how we're going to gauge the effectiveness of a users timestop but I guess as a possibly it's ok?

I'm sort-of okay with that, but it probably would be best to state that it's practically useless in a fight against a time-manipulator.

 

[Goodyfresh]

So do other staff members think that "Possibly very limited resistance to time-stopping" might be an acceptable addition?

I'm not a staff member of course but that wording for it does sound most appropriate to me as the one who proposed the change.

Pretty cool that Dragon Ball is finally getting some actual hax besides a giant rabbit who can turn people into carrots or a pink wad of bubblegum who can turn folks into candy. Haha.

Speaking of the new hax, I did just notice something. In Hit's power-list and under his time-leap power, on his page here, it says "can freeze time for 0.5 seconds." That does definitely need to be revised to say "at least 1 second," as he evolved the technique to a new level during his battle with Goku, and only midway through the battle reached 1 second duration. That seems to have increased even further later in the battle once Goku was using Kaio-Ken, but no number was put to it so we can't say with certainty.

 

[Antvasima]

Was it explicitly stated that he could stop time for 1 second or more?

 

[Goodyfresh]

Was it explicitly stated that he could stop time for 1 second or more?

Ahhhh dang, just looked it up and unfortunately no. The last evolution of the time-leap that was actually stated was 0.5 seconds. It clearly evolved beyond that point, and all the previous evolutions of the technique were about a doubling (first from 0.1 seconds to 0.2, then 0.2 to 0.5) so people had surmised that the final duration was at least a second. But it turns out that the actual statement of one second, instead of 0.5 seconds, was from a inaccurate translation I had watched.

I did just go and rewatch those scenes (with a proper translation) and confirmed that a duration of one second is never explicitly stated. Why do writers have to go and make things so difficult for us geeks by implying rather than stating things? >_< Hahaha.

All we have to do is wait, though, and he probably will get upgraded eventually. After all, Hit will be participating in the Omni-King's Tournament

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.