NEP Questions I need answers to

[Ss3micah]

NEP Natures 1, 2 and 3, in a VS Wiki Debate setting I would like to know

#1: How do each of these natures function?
#2: What is the benefit of each type?
#3: How can each be countered?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

NEP Natures 1, 2 and 3, in a VS Wiki Debate setting I would like to know

#1: How do each of these natures function?
#2: What is the benefit of each type?
#3: How can each be countered?

Type 2 > type 3 > type 1.

 

[Ss3micah]

Type 2 > type 3 > type 1.

Thanks but this I pretty much knew already

I was more over interested in the innate functions these types have in a Vs debate

Similar to how AE1 makes one uninteractable and AE2 basically gives one Endless Regen

And what you would have to do to counteract each type

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Thanks but this I pretty much knew already

I was more over interested in the innate functions these types have in a Vs debate

Similar to how AE1 makes one uninteractable and AE2 basically gives one Endless Regen

And what you would have to do to counteract each type

Just feats. Also you can nuke the dimension itself. If NEP character doens't have feat for surving that then they are good as dead.

AE2 can be negated if your character has Immortality type 8 negation.

For NEP you need feats for interactions.

 

[Ss3micah]

Just feats. Also you can nuke the dimension itself. If NEP character doens't have feat for surving that then they are good as dead.

WAIT!!!
So nuking the plane of existence they reside on can 360 No-Scope NEP characters
Including Type 2, cause I heard NEP 2 characters are in a state where their dimensionless (since they exist in a state where they both exist and dont exist and neither exist nor not exist) and cant be killed by nuking their plane of reality and only by feats of interaction can they be defeated

For NEP you need feats for interactions.

Yeah this pretty much works for everything tbh

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

WAIT!!!
So nuking the plane of existence they reside on can 360 No-Scope NEP characters

Yeah nuking the plane works. Check the notes in NEP explanation page

Including Type 2, cause I heard NEP 2 characters are in a state where their dimensionless (since they exist in a state where they both exist and dont exist and neither exist nor not exist) and cant be killed by nuking their plane of reality and only by feats of interaction can they be defeated

Now you mentioned it i am not sure but i still think there needs to be separate feat for surving dimensional collapse. Otherwise it kinda feels like NLF. But you should be able to neg type 1 & 3 for sure.

 

[Ss3micah]

Now you mentioned it i am not sure but i still think there needs to be separate feat for surving dimensional collapse. Otherwise it kinda feels like NLF. But you should be able to neg type 1 & 3 for sure.

Thats why I created this Q&A

I wanted to know what are the general innate functions that NEP (each type specifically) grant in battles, what benefits they have and how each can be defeated

 

[Ss3micah]

Yeah nuking the plane works. Check the notes in NEP explanation page

Now you mentioned it i am not sure but i still think there needs to be separate feat for surving dimensional collapse. Otherwise it kinda feels like NLF. But you should be able to neg type 1 & 3 for sure.

Btw Thanks for Answering

 

[Kavliaris]

Yeah nuking the plane works. Check the notes in NEP explanation page

Now you mentioned it i am not sure but i still think there needs to be separate feat for surving dimensional collapse. Otherwise it kinda feels like NLF. But you should be able to neg type 1 & 3 for sure.

Is nep type 2 superior to 1 & 3?

 

[Ss3micah]

Is nep type 2 superior to 1 & 3?

Yeah evidently

NEP 1 as I understand it is being in a state of Non-Existence (opposite to existence)
NEP 2 is being neither in a of Existence and Non-Existence
NEP 3 is being Existent but behaving in metaphysical ways as if you are nonexistent or vice versa

NEP 1 and 3 seems to share the same weakness
Those being:

Feats of interaction
Nuking Dimensional Plane of existence
Abstract Hax (Concept, Info, Plot Hax) that they don’t Lack an Aspect of
Mind and/or Soul Hax (as long as they don’t lack these Aspects)

NEP 2 however is more obscure. It seems that it can be dealt with by feats of interaction and the other weaknesses don’t apply because their deeper state of existence makes them dimensionless and uninteractable in another way even by way of abstract hax (not without feats of interaction anyways)

 

[Kavliaris]

Yeah evidently

NEP 1 as I understand it is being in a state of Non-Existence (opposite to existence)
NEP 2 is being neither in a of Existence and Non-Existence
NEP 3 is being Existent but behaving in metaphysical ways as if you are nonexistent or vice versa

NEP 1 and 3 seems to share the same weakness
Those being:

Feats of interaction
Nuking Dimensional Plane of existence
Abstract Hax (Concept, Info, Plot Hax) that they don’t Lack an Aspect of
Mind and/or Soul Hax (as long as they don’t lack these Aspects)

NEP 2 however is more obscure. It seems that it can be dealt with by feats of interaction and the other weaknesses don’t apply because their deeper state of existence makes them dimensionless and uninteractable in another way even by way of abstract hax (not without feats of interaction anyways)

I thought nep type 2 & 3 were similar seen in the explanation of transduality, where for type 3 it has weird subjective reality(?) and is more complex.

btw does any nep charcater have "presence" when compared to nonexitence or deeper non dual nonextience itself

 

[Ss3micah]

I thought nep type 2 & 3 were similar seen in the explanation of transduality, where for type 3 it has weird subjective reality(?) and is more complex.

It really isn’t similar
NEP 2 is neither being existent nor nonexistent
NEP 3 is being existent but having some facet of being behaves as if it doesn’t exist.

Only NEP 2 is the only thing compared with Transduality

btw does any nep charcater have "presence" when compared to nonexitence or deeper non dual nonextience itself

Really Subjective there
NEP3 characters will have presence but will behave as if they dont
NEP1 don’t have presence as they don’t exist
NEP 2 characters neither have presence nor don’t have presence as they exist in a state that is neither existent nor non existent

If your asking for character specific examples not sure because I’m not too familiar with NEP characters

 

[Kavliaris]

It really isn’t similar
NEP 2 is neither being existent nor nonexistent
NEP 3 is being existent but having some facet of being behaves as if it doesn’t exist.

Only NEP 2 is the only thing compared with Transduality

Really Subjective there
NEP3 characters will have presence but will behave as if they dont
NEP1 don’t have presence as they don’t exist
NEP 2 characters neither have presence nor don’t have presence as they exist in a state that is neither existent nor non existent

If your asking for character specific examples not sure because I’m not too familiar with NEP characters

I'm also not familiar with nep characters, sometimes I find normal incorporeality in some verses has more solid evidence of absence of existence, described as observing rather than exist as an immaterial state of that place.

 

[Ss3micah]

I'm also not familiar with nep characters, sometimes I find normal incorporeality in some verses has more solid evidence of absence of existence, described as observing rather than exist as an immaterial state of that place.

Well as far as I know
The NEP aspects cover what facet of Existence they lack. Wether it be Mind, Concept, Soul, Information, History, Plot, etc

For those NEP characters who have no PHYSICAL existence (so physically (as in a body/vessel) non-existent)
We would attach Incorporeality along with the NEP

Such like cases like Monika

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Well Nature Type 1 is your basic Void/Nothingness/Nonexistence/Fantasy/Unreality or Illusionary thing. Because their nonexistent you can't interact with them, but they can be affected by Void Manipulation and any kind of NPI interacting with things I've listed above can work on them.

Nature Type 2 is just a more complex version of Nature Type 1, it has all the same benefits and has its own special spot for verses that have layers of nonexistence. For example.

Character A: "Creation and the Void are opposites, one is all that is and can be and the other is all that is not and will never be, existence and nonexistence, a balance of two oppositions. God is more than nothing, they exist a state beyond such things, transcending Creation and the Void equally."

In this case "God" is still nothing, but just to a weirder higher extent. As such normal Void Manipulation won't work on them, and neither will the ability to effect things that are just plainly nonexistent like before.

Nature Type 3 normally refers to quantum possibility stuff such as Schrodinger's Cat. They can be both existent and nonexistence at the same time, but they can also be only one depending on the situation. Due to this, even if you destroy their nothingness, they can simply be existent, and if you destroy their existence, they will still be nothingness. So basically, to deal with you both Void Manipulation & Existence Erasure or some way of destroying/hurting nothingness is a must.

Besides all of that, they all have the weakness of being tied to their dimension. The nothingness of one dimension is not the nothingness of a higher dimension, so destroying their dimension can theoretically kill a nonexistent being unless their NEP covers that weakness.

It should be noted that they have no flat-out superiority to one another. Nature Type 1 is more basic then Type 3, and Type 3 is more basic then Type 2, but someone with Type 1 can see lack more aspects than someone with Type 2 and therefor be harder to affect. For example, lacking the aspect of interaction with Nature Type 1 could mean even someone with interaction feats against Type 2 can't necessarily touch you.

Anyway, that's about it.

 

[Ss3micah]

Well Nature Type 1 is your basic Void/Nothingness/Nonexistence/Fantasy/Unreality or Illusionary thing. Because their nonexistent you can't interact with them, but they can be affected by Void Manipulation and any kind of NPI interacting with things I've listed above can work on them.

Nature Type 2 is just a more complex version of Nature Type 1, it has all the same benefits and has its own special spot for verses that have layers of nonexistence. For example.

Character A: "Creation and the Void are opposites, one is all that is and can be and the other is all that is not and will never be, existence and nonexistence, a balance of two oppositions. God is more than nothing, they exist a state beyond such things, transcending Creation and the Void equally."

In this case "God" is still nothing, but just to a weirder higher extent. As such normal Void Manipulation won't work on them, and neither will the ability to effect things that are just plainly nonexistent like before.

Nature Type 3 normally refers to quantum possibility stuff such as Schrodinger's Cat. They can be both existent and nonexistence at the same time, but they can also be only one depending on the situation. Due to this, even if you destroy their nothingness, they can simply be existent, and if you destroy their existence, they will still be nothingness. So basically, to deal with you both Void Manipulation & Existence Erasure or some way of destroying/hurting nothingness is a must.

Besides all of that, they all have the weakness of being tied to their dimension. The nothingness of one dimension is not the nothingness of a higher dimension, so destroying their dimension can theoretically kill a nonexistent being unless their NEP covers that weakness.

It should be noted that they have no flat-out superiority to one another. Nature Type 1 is more basic then Type 3, and Type 3 is more basic then Type 2, but someone with Type 1 can see lack more aspects than someone with Type 2 and therefor be harder to affect. For example, lacking the aspect of interaction with Nature Type 1 could mean even someone with interaction feats against Type 2 can't necessarily touch you.

Anyway, that's about it.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!

 

[ImmortalDread]

Is nep type 2 superior to 1 & 3?

Yes. It is not even bound by any dimensions while NEP 1 and NEP 3 are.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Yes. It is not even bound by any dimensions while NEP 1 and NEP 3 are.

Isn't Type 2 still bound to its plane of existence, it's not stated to be different in that regard on the abilities page.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Isn't Type 2 still bound to its plane of existence, it's not stated to be different in that regard on the abilities page.

wait no? I heard NEP 2 is not bounded by any dimensions. Unless it is changed again but I am not informed.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

wait no? I heard NEP 2 is not bounded by any dimensions. Unless it is changed again but I am not informed.

I thought it required evidence, idk of DontTalk or somebody stated otherwise.

A consequence of that is that feats or special reasoning are required for a character with this ability to survive the complete erasure of their plane of existence, as one needs to confirm that they are able to still display some existent properties on a different plane of existence.

 

[Ss3micah]

Isn't Type 2 still bound to its plane of existence, it's not stated to be different in that regard on the abilities page.

wait no? I heard NEP 2 is not bounded by any dimensions. Unless it is changed again but I am not informed.

...
Should we probably ask DontTalkDT for clarification?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I thought it required evidence, idk of DontTalk or somebody stated otherwise.

^He's right. Nature Type 2 needs evidence for manifesting on higher planes, just like the other types do.

 

[ImmortalDread]

^He's right. Nature Type 2 needs evidence for manifesting on higher planes, just like the other types do.

Oh thanks for information, lol. It seems I am outdated.

 

[Sniper670]

^He's right. Nature Type 2 needs evidence for manifesting on higher planes, just like the other types do.

Hold up. I disagree.

I don't exists in a 3D plane means I'd exist in a 4D plane? How does being uncountably infinite above lower plane nonexistent entity make the lower plane entity existent?

The one thing you cannot tie to dimensionality is not existing

 

[ImmortalDread]

I had the same concerns, hence I know that NEP 2 is not bound by any dimensions and that's what it makes nature so particular.

 

[Sniper670]

Same. Let's wait to here what he got to say.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Well then that raises a question. Are versus that say a lower realms nonexistence is inferior to a higher realm's nonexistence weaker than just plain old nonexistence?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Hold up. I disagree.

I don't exists in a 3D plane means I'd exist in a 4D plane? How does being uncountably infinite above lower plane nonexistent entity make the lower plane entity existent?

The one thing you cannot tie to dimensionality is not existing

Well, as the note says

Note: The aspects in which a character is not nonexistent in the common sense are what makes them into a 'living' character. As such, if a character with this power is reduced to a state in which they can't display any properties of something that exists (e.g. becomes unable to take any actions), they are effectively dead/erased. A consequence of that is that feats or special reasoning are required for a character with this ability to survive the complete erasure of their plane of existence, as one needs to confirm that they are able to still display some existent properties on a different plane of existence.

Unless you can reach 4D, the nonexistence of a 3D plane means you have nowhere you can do anything. You can call it incapacitated instead of dead, if you like, but you are definitely defeated.