NEP and 4th Wall Breakers vs Higher Dimensional Voodoo?

[DaimaouAshura]

Have been to a few Arale threads and saw the argument made that unless a character also has the hax of 4th wall breaking or a feat of hitting non-existence physiology, it doesn't matter even if they are higher D or have higher D range, they still won't affect either example.
In my head and debating out there, it's always been the contrary. The true higher dimensionals, for being infinities above and more complex, can easily affect the lower ones along with their reality.
So, I'd like that question answered, discussed. Which one is it, is this a NLF, what are the rulings.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Made a humorous comparison that such would mean even a 200 D without 4th wall breaking in their powerlist can't beat Arale by that logic, and was answered that yes they'd just inconclusive.
Giving me input might earn you a soda from hell, but the delivery will take a bit of an eternity.

 

[TheGatememer]

I don't believe there are any standards that say characters that go beyond the 4th wall can't be interacted with, as that violates Reality-Fiction standards. You would just need sufficient range. How much would probably depend on the verse in question.

But, you do need feats of interacting with NEP, especially with Nature Type 2 iirc.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Daimaou You might want to reword the NEP-thingy a little. Comes off weird to people unaware of the situation.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

I don't believe there are any standards that say characters that go beyond the 4th wall can't be interacted with, as that violates Reality-Fiction standards. You would just need sufficient range. How much would probably depend on the verse in question.

But, you do need feats of interacting with NEP, especially with Nature Type 2.

Which means here, a higher dimensional would need feats of non-physical interaction that still allows them to hit non-existence of lower dimensions.
But affecting people beyond the 4th wall is possible, so long as they have the range.
For sake of example, say a 3D goes beyond the fourth wall, what range would be needed to affect them there?

 

[DaimaouAshura]

@Daimaou You might want to reword the NEP-thingy a little. Comes off weird to people unaware of the situation.

You sure? I thought it was clear. Just asking if HD = can hit NEP by default with their range and state of being. Same question to the 4th wall leaving stuff, really.

 

[Greenshifter]

Guess it’s fine. But since it’s the same sentence people might think it has to do with Arale.

 

[Greenshifter]

I don't believe there are any standards that say characters that go beyond the 4th wall can't be interacted with, as that violates Reality-Fiction standards. You would just need sufficient range. How much would probably depend on the verse in question.

That same page also mentions case-by-case, so I wouldn’t really call it a violation.

 

[Planck69]

The Arale stuff is just pure nonsense. 4th Wall Breaking doesn't actually grant anything remotely like that. At most you'd need extra range to deal with such characters. With changes depending on the specifics of the verse in question.

 

[TheGatememer]

Which means here, a higher dimensional would need feats of non-physical interaction that still allows them to hit non-existence of lower dimensions.

Yea, since NEP is a state of being, or lack thereof, and higher range wouldn't really make a difference.

But affecting people beyond the 4th wall is possible, so long as they have the range.
For sake of example, say a 3D goes beyond the fourth wall, what range would be needed to affect them there?

I don't really know tbh, but in this example, I'd say 4D range is more than enough to reach them. Not saying that it's required, but it would be more than enough.

 

[Greenshifter]

The Arale stuff is just pure nonsense. 4th Wall Breaking doesn't actually grant anything remotely like that. At most you'd need extra range to deal with such characters. With changes depending on the specifics of the verse in question.

Arale doesn’t just break the 4th wall, she can choose to stay there and affect the plot from there iirc. So while someone like Archie Sonic wouldn’t be able to pull this off, if you have enough feats you can. Also how would you determine how much “extra range” you need to affect her? The only plausible thing I could see would be seeing as fiction whatever she sees as fiction as well, which would be like 5D range in her case.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

The Arale stuff is just pure nonsense. 4th Wall Breaking doesn't actually grant anything remotely like that. At most you'd need extra range to deal with such characters. With changes depending on the specifics of the verse in question.

Range of a whole higher dimension still not reaching looked strange to hell to me
but I barely know Arale or how things work here on this topic, so figured better to make a dedicated thread and ask than to derail the thread

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Arale doesn’t just break the 4th wall, she can choose to stay there and affect the plot from there iirc. So while someone like Archie Sonic wouldn’t be able to pull this off, if you have enough feats you can. Also how would you determine how much “extra range” you need to affect her?

As I said in that thread the thing is that this space beyond the 4th wall is still within the dimensional boundaries she's in, 3 or 4D at most.
So same as the staff there said, HD power with range that can reach higher constructs or equal should do the trick.

 

[Planck69]

Arale doesn’t just break the 4th wall, she can choose to stay there and affect the plot from there iirc.

.....And?

So while someone like Archie Sonic wouldn’t be able to pull this off, if you have enough feats you can. Also how would you determine how much “extra range” you need to affect her? The only plausible thing I could see would be seeing as fiction whatever she sees as fiction as well, which would be like 5D range in her case.

That's completely unnecessary. It's borderline nauseating how much people overestimate meta abilities. It's just a non-standard way of moving beyond the conventional setting. Which doesn't mean much when another character can do the same on an equal or greater scale.

Really, I'm starting to get sour to Arale more than Bleach that one time.

 

[Greenshifter]

That's completely unnecessary. It's borderline nauseating how much people overestimate meta abilities. It's just a non-standard way of moving beyond the conventional setting. Which doesn't mean much when another character can do the same on an equal or greater scale.

I don’t like it when people wank them to omnipotence/beyond fiction either, I’m not even a fan of plot manipulation. But the way it functions should be similar to how other abilities work, abilities that I do care about.