- 3,611
- 882
Matt has already explained to you why Neloth's statements aren't arrogance and are facts. You would have to justify why they aren't enough to warrant a 'possibly 2-C key' because they kind of are.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Neloth downgrade
- Thread starter Self_Love
- Start date
-
- Tags
- neloth the elder scrolls
- Status
- 32,359
- 20,298
I have provided them, you pretending they don't exist or performing nitpick sphaggeti arguing as oppose to taking the whole thing in-context as I did in my post isn't a debunk. You're just isolating individual statements from the surrounding context that makes them work, while also ignoring all statements as "baseless claims!"
Knock it off, your personal beef and incredulity is not grounds to downgrade a profile.
Knock it off, your personal beef and incredulity is not grounds to downgrade a profile.
- 32,359
- 20,298
"No you did not!"
Should I resort to your tactic and redirect you to my posts? Because all you're doing is stonewalling and refusing to acknowledge arguments.
Should I resort to your tactic and redirect you to my posts? Because all you're doing is stonewalling and refusing to acknowledge arguments.
- 3,611
- 882
@selflove not every profile needs feats to have certain keys. Some characters can be scaled from others feats and if there is any ambiguity or doubt they are given a 'possibly' key.
- 3,611
- 882
what? are you saying you don't believe that Dova/Mirrak/Alduin are 2-C? because they are.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Self Love said:
You: "I'm not going to respond to arguments and posts that have already been stated. Instead, I'll pretend they don't exist and keep demanding that my opponent repeat them, presumably so I can follow up with the marvelous strategy of saying they don't exist yet again!"Self Love said:
- 3,611
- 882
That's not how it works @selflove do you understand what scaling is?
- 32,359
- 20,298
Being Dragonborn's superior in magic, being resistant over Miraak's power and saying he could teach him.
- 3,611
- 882
Except his in game statements are enough to justify his 'Possibly 2-C' key? we have been through this lol
- 3,611
- 882
You would have to justify why they aren't and saying 'because he is arrogant' is headcannon
- 32,359
- 20,298
Just like the previous attempt, it's nothing but a "He is arrogant" headcanon born out of personal incredulity alone coupled with the utter dismissal of every rebuttal and counterargument through stonewalling. Not even sure why we're bothering here anymore.
- 587
- 130
- Thread starter
- #56
He's not Dragonborn's superior in magic, resisting Miraak's mind control is just resistance and saying he could teach him doesn't mean anything.
"Savros? Ha! He wouldn't be fit to be my apprentice. Of course he does have a knack for wards that would be handy to learn."
Apparently the great Neloth could learn a thing or two in magic as well
"Savros? Ha! He wouldn't be fit to be my apprentice. Of course he does have a knack for wards that would be handy to learn."
Apparently the great Neloth could learn a thing or two in magic as well
- 4,604
- 6,575
Matt, while I do agree with you, you've dodged the fact that you still removed comments of people who did nothing but agree with the OP. He is being unreasonable, but that doesn't justify removing comments of other people for your own sake.
- 32,359
- 20,298
the comment was restored DarkGrath. It was even brought over to RV where I admitted my mistake and restored it.DarkGrath said:
- 12,524
- 3,492
^Matthew Schroeder said:
At this point, the downgrade arguments are hella weak.
- 32,359
- 20,298
"He's not Dragonborn's superior in magic"
He is, him teaching you magic comes up in the dialogue as does his superiority. To ignore that it to either show pure disbelief over his every claim (Which you do) or show ignorance over their existence (Which perhaps you also do in some cases
"resisting Miraak's mind control is just resistance and saying he could teach him doesn't mean anything."
Don't separate context. We have three showings / statements of Neloth in comparison to Miraak.
1. He is the only person in Solstheim to resist his magic mind control of the population. That alone establishes him as a big deal.
2. He doesn't show much concern over Miraak's threat and indeed just considers him more of a nuisance. That also shows his disposition towards Miraak in general and how he seems to be in control and above the situation. The events are beneath his notice.
3. He laments Miraak's death and muses that he could have been a wonderful apprentice had him not turned to the path he took. This also once again establishes Neloth's viewpoint of the situation as completely different to even our own. Rather than a world-ending nightmarish threat, Neloth sees Miraak as a nuisance at worst, and a curiosity at best.
He is, him teaching you magic comes up in the dialogue as does his superiority. To ignore that it to either show pure disbelief over his every claim (Which you do) or show ignorance over their existence (Which perhaps you also do in some cases
"resisting Miraak's mind control is just resistance and saying he could teach him doesn't mean anything."
Don't separate context. We have three showings / statements of Neloth in comparison to Miraak.
1. He is the only person in Solstheim to resist his magic mind control of the population. That alone establishes him as a big deal.
2. He doesn't show much concern over Miraak's threat and indeed just considers him more of a nuisance. That also shows his disposition towards Miraak in general and how he seems to be in control and above the situation. The events are beneath his notice.
3. He laments Miraak's death and muses that he could have been a wonderful apprentice had him not turned to the path he took. This also once again establishes Neloth's viewpoint of the situation as completely different to even our own. Rather than a world-ending nightmarish threat, Neloth sees Miraak as a nuisance at worst, and a curiosity at best.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Neloth is a master of all schools of magic. He has mastery over destruction, restoration, mysticism and alteration spells as we see him use them in-game. Saying he is purely an enchanter is an outright lie.
In fact, he is a scholar of Shadow Magic, of all things. An incredibly risky, dangerous, and powerful school which involves the manipulation of possibility and alternate timelines through shadows.
In fact, he is a scholar of Shadow Magic, of all things. An incredibly risky, dangerous, and powerful school which involves the manipulation of possibility and alternate timelines through shadows.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Yeah, I don't think it'll go anywhere.ShadowWarrior1999 said:
- 587
- 130
- Thread starter
- #65
No, I said his specialty is enchanting, meaning that's what he's best at.
Cool, but we don't see him doing that, do we?
Again, I don't care what Neloth himself thinks. Fyr thinks he can defeat Princes in their own realms, and he's a lot more creditable.
His most notable feat is resisting Miraak's mind control. It's that simple.
Cool, but we don't see him doing that, do we?
Again, I don't care what Neloth himself thinks. Fyr thinks he can defeat Princes in their own realms, and he's a lot more creditable.
His most notable feat is resisting Miraak's mind control. It's that simple.
- 32,359
- 20,298
It's not his only specialty, and that in by itself isn't an exclusionary argument, Self Love.
How do you expect Skyrim's Engine to demonstrate that?The point is that you are underselling himself.
"I don't care". You summed your side up pretty clearly, by ignoring all statements you throw away context out of spite.
How do you expect Skyrim's Engine to demonstrate that?The point is that you are underselling himself.
"I don't care". You summed your side up pretty clearly, by ignoring all statements you throw away context out of spite.
- 3,611
- 882
Just something funny I noticed. In the gamefiles Neloth's enchanting is 15 lmao. (I disagree with the downgrade, just thought it was amusing)
- 32,359
- 20,298
I mean, that's the sort of idiosyncracy in gameplay that shows it isn't reliable. Like mammoths being stronger than giants and whatnot.
- 3,611
- 882
Yeah of course. In game stats are rarely accurrate to the lore and unusable to justify anything, just made me laugh when I read it.
- 32,359
- 20,298
I do get it, seriously. The problem is that you are recurrently implying that Neloth is just a good enchanter with a giant ego as opposed to the character he really is.Self Love said:
- 587
- 130
- Thread starter
- #72
No, what i'm trying to say is he's a wizard of House Telvanni that specializes in enchanting and is knowledgeable in other schools of magic, but admits he can learn a thing or two from mages such as Savos, who is nowhere near universal. He does indeed resist Miraak's mind control, but doesn't have anything else. Therefore, his word alone is not enough.
- 3,611
- 882
Considering magic in Elderscrolls is reality warping, resisting 2-C mindhax with magic is almost an AP feat.
- 32,359
- 20,298
One must also consider the correlation between the Magicka, the Animus and the soul
- 3,611
- 882
That reminds me, I should probably try re-reading your Elderscrolls Philosophy blog lol.
- 5,510
- 718
Hmm I do agree with the Possibly rating and I do feel Matt's removal of comments is quite dodgy but I also advise that we think on this thread's requests with a clear head
- 15,637
- 5,392
My first question would be to ask what information we have on Neloth outside of the games, as it's been shown many times over that there can be a dissonance between the surface-level appearance of the games, and the deeper cosmology and lore taking place.
- 5,510
- 718
@Dark I notice that but it still deserves to be noted.
- Status
Similar threads
