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Neloth downgrade

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Matt has already explained to you why Neloth's statements aren't arrogance and are facts. You would have to justify why they aren't enough to warrant a 'possibly 2-C key' because they kind of are.
 
I have provided them, you pretending they don't exist or performing nitpick sphaggeti arguing as oppose to taking the whole thing in-context as I did in my post isn't a debunk. You're just isolating individual statements from the surrounding context that makes them work, while also ignoring all statements as "baseless claims!"

Knock it off, your personal beef and incredulity is not grounds to downgrade a profile.
 
"No you did not!"

Should I resort to your tactic and redirect you to my posts? Because all you're doing is stonewalling and refusing to acknowledge arguments.
 
@selflove not every profile needs feats to have certain keys. Some characters can be scaled from others feats and if there is any ambiguity or doubt they are given a 'possibly' key.
 
Self Love said:
No, you didn't. Name me one right now
Self Love said:
Show it to me
You: "I'm not going to respond to arguments and posts that have already been stated. Instead, I'll pretend they don't exist and keep demanding that my opponent repeat them, presumably so I can follow up with the marvelous strategy of saying they don't exist yet again!"
 
Just like the previous attempt, it's nothing but a "He is arrogant" headcanon born out of personal incredulity alone coupled with the utter dismissal of every rebuttal and counterargument through stonewalling. Not even sure why we're bothering here anymore.
 
He's not Dragonborn's superior in magic, resisting Miraak's mind control is just resistance and saying he could teach him doesn't mean anything.

"Savros? Ha! He wouldn't be fit to be my apprentice. Of course he does have a knack for wards that would be handy to learn."

Apparently the great Neloth could learn a thing or two in magic as well
 
Matt, while I do agree with you, you've dodged the fact that you still removed comments of people who did nothing but agree with the OP. He is being unreasonable, but that doesn't justify removing comments of other people for your own sake.
 
DarkGrath said:
Matt, while I do agree with you, you've dodged the fact that you still removed comments of people who did nothing but agree with the OP. He is being unreasonable, but that doesn't justify removing comments of other people for your own sake.
the comment was restored DarkGrath. It was even brought over to RV where I admitted my mistake and restored it.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
DarkGrath said:
Matt, while I do agree with you, you've dodged the fact that you still removed comments of people who did nothing but agree with the OP. He is being unreasonable, but that doesn't justify removing comments of other people for your own sake.
the comment was restored DarkGrath. It was even brought over to RV where I admitted my mistake and restored it.
My apologies, I didn't notice.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Finally, Neloth is a teacher of Enchanting in the game and his skills in magic there are >>>>>> The Dovahkiin's, and in fact he refuses to teach you any more when you're approaching his level, saying he doesn't want you to surpass him.
^

At this point, the downgrade arguments are hella weak.
 
"He's not Dragonborn's superior in magic"

He is, him teaching you magic comes up in the dialogue as does his superiority. To ignore that it to either show pure disbelief over his every claim (Which you do) or show ignorance over their existence (Which perhaps you also do in some cases

"resisting Miraak's mind control is just resistance and saying he could teach him doesn't mean anything."

Don't separate context. We have three showings / statements of Neloth in comparison to Miraak.

1. He is the only person in Solstheim to resist his magic mind control of the population. That alone establishes him as a big deal.

2. He doesn't show much concern over Miraak's threat and indeed just considers him more of a nuisance. That also shows his disposition towards Miraak in general and how he seems to be in control and above the situation. The events are beneath his notice.

3. He laments Miraak's death and muses that he could have been a wonderful apprentice had him not turned to the path he took. This also once again establishes Neloth's viewpoint of the situation as completely different to even our own. Rather than a world-ending nightmarish threat, Neloth sees Miraak as a nuisance at worst, and a curiosity at best.
 
No, his specialty is enchanting. In TES, you can specialize in a specific school in magic while being weak in others. Neloth admitted he could learn from Savos who isn't anywhere near universal.
 
Neloth is a master of all schools of magic. He has mastery over destruction, restoration, mysticism and alteration spells as we see him use them in-game. Saying he is purely an enchanter is an outright lie.

In fact, he is a scholar of Shadow Magic, of all things. An incredibly risky, dangerous, and powerful school which involves the manipulation of possibility and alternate timelines through shadows.
 
No, I said his specialty is enchanting, meaning that's what he's best at.

Cool, but we don't see him doing that, do we?

Again, I don't care what Neloth himself thinks. Fyr thinks he can defeat Princes in their own realms, and he's a lot more creditable.

His most notable feat is resisting Miraak's mind control. It's that simple.
 
It's not his only specialty, and that in by itself isn't an exclusionary argument, Self Love.

How do you expect Skyrim's Engine to demonstrate that?The point is that you are underselling himself.

"I don't care". You summed your side up pretty clearly, by ignoring all statements you throw away context out of spite.
 
Just something funny I noticed. In the gamefiles Neloth's enchanting is 15 lmao. (I disagree with the downgrade, just thought it was amusing)
 
I mean, that's the sort of idiosyncracy in gameplay that shows it isn't reliable. Like mammoths being stronger than giants and whatnot.
 
You don't get it, do you? I said the school of magic he's best at is enchanting, I didn't say he didn't know anything else.

Again, I care about individual feats one performs. His word alone is not enough.
 
Self Love said:
You don't get it, do you? I said the school of magic he's best at is enchanting, I didn't say he didn't know anything else.
Again, I care about individual feats one performs. His word alone is not enough.
I do get it, seriously. The problem is that you are recurrently implying that Neloth is just a good enchanter with a giant ego as opposed to the character he really is.
 
No, what i'm trying to say is he's a wizard of House Telvanni that specializes in enchanting and is knowledgeable in other schools of magic, but admits he can learn a thing or two from mages such as Savos, who is nowhere near universal. He does indeed resist Miraak's mind control, but doesn't have anything else. Therefore, his word alone is not enough.
 
Hmm I do agree with the Possibly rating and I do feel Matt's removal of comments is quite dodgy but I also advise that we think on this thread's requests with a clear head
 
Hellbeast1 said:
Hmm I do agree with the Possibly rating and I do feel Matt's removal of comments is quite dodgy but I also advise that we think on this thread's requests with a clear head
Matt has since undone his removal of the comments.
 
My first question would be to ask what information we have on Neloth outside of the games, as it's been shown many times over that there can be a dissonance between the surface-level appearance of the games, and the deeper cosmology and lore taking place.
 
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