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Naruto Speed Upgrades/Downgrades.

LlamaGod1411

LlamaGod1411

1,204
98
Should Kakashi really be placed at MHS+? The DMS does not really warrant a speed increase, and Sakura's feat of punching Kaguya is considered PIS. Why not this?
 
because he also received Obito's chakra iirc, which, well, justifies the overall boost. Not sure if that is why.
 
It's not PIS. He actually received a boost unlike the situation with Sakura. Also, when he used Kamui in tandem with Obito, they were able to teleport in time to evade Madara's attack.
 
LlamaGod1411 said:
Still does not warrant a speed increase to Mach3200+
Click to expand...
When did any author care for consistency? There are too many examples of accepted power/speed increases of ridiculous proportions. He received a boost, which made him keep up with kaguya momentarily. If you think it doesnt makes sense, well, fiction is this way, sorry.
 
@Burning, He did?

That would increase Obito's speed then, no?


@PaChi2, I know that, but the only mention about it I can find(related to speed) is

"When both eyes are used together on the same target, the teleportation process works twice as fast"
 
No. Obito and Kakashi utilized Kamui together to evade Madara's attack which is why the teleportation was faster than normal. And it's the same thing Kakashi used against Kaguya. Also like PaChi mentioned, a boost is a boost. Nevertheless, the only thing that looks fishy to me is the manner of Kakashi's powerup.
 
Good point. If Kakashi is MHS+ for using Obito chakra and eyes, then Obito should also be the same. Otherwise Kakashi should be downgraded to MHS. There is massive scaling error here
 
Obito's chakra was combined with Kakashi's increasing Kakashi's speed. What's the error there? It's simple. Neither of them are MHS+ alone. They only gained that level of speed after using Kamui in tandem with each other. Kakashi only achieved that speed after gaining both of Obito's Mangekyō Sharingan. How should it scale back to Obito in the first place?
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
Obito's chakra was combined with Kakashi's increasing Kakashi's speed. What's the error there? It's simple. Neither of them are MHS+ alone. They only gained that level of speed after using Kamui in tandem with each other. Kakashi only achieved that speed after gaining both of Obito's Mangekyō Sharingan. How should it scale back to Obito in the first place?
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Kakashi's chakra is probably 1/100000 of Obito's. Kakashi has less chakra than pre-shippuden KID Naruto. A drop of water in an ocean makes no difference
 
Well, even with Kakashi's conservative reserves, he's MHS by himself.

It's not farfetched imo that being boosted by super chakra will make him that much faster considering what the same type of chakra did for Naruto and Sasuke.
 
Gemmysaur said:
Well, even with Kakashi's conservative reserves, he's MHS by himself.
It's not farfetched imo that being boosted by super chakra will make him that much faster considering what the same type of chakra did for Naruto and Sasuke.
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Kakashi should never be faster than Obito in any sense. Kakashi didn't even receive a fraction of Obito's prime chakra as Juubi jinchuriki. Obito should be MHS+ himself at the very least. He was lolstomping all the kages and lost because of PIS talk no jutsu and mental breakdown
 
Never said he'd be faster than Obito, but the chakra he recieved temporarily boosting his own speed by at least some, and the DMS boosting his own reflexes as he was iirc, half-way blind already with his one Sharingan, it's still not far-fetched imo.
 
Gemmysaur said:
Never said he'd be faster than Obito, but the chakra he recieved temporarily boosting his own speed by at least some, and the DMS boosting his own reflexes as he was iirc, half-way blind already with his one Sharingan, it's still not far-fetched imo.
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Ok but do you agree that Obito should be upgraded to MHS+? Because seeing Kakashi MHS+ but not Obito looks very wrong. I don't even get how Obito did not get upgraded before
 
How's Obito even supposed to scale from the speed of Kamui when used with both eyes? That thing was MHS+ when used by two characters that were nowhere near 100% at the time. Kakashi got both eyes and chakra from Obito so MHS+ is fine for him. If you actually mean Obito as the Ten Tails Jinchüriki, I'm not sure as I've also asked that question before but I can't remember the answer I was given.
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
How's Obito even supposed to scale from the speed of Kamui when used with both eyes? That thing was MHS+ when used by two characters that were nowhere near 100% at the time. Kakashi got both eyes and chakra from Obito so MHS+ is fine for him. If you actually mean Obito as the Ten Tails Jinchüriki, I'm not sure as I've also asked that question before but I can't remember the answer I was given.
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Of course I am talking about ten tails jinchuriki. Kakashi should be fodder to Juubi jin Obito in every way except hax.
 
Pretty sure everyone is on the same page here that it is Juubito, not the other forms, Lol.


@Aiden, No, we're discussing if it should be a downgrade for Kakashi or an Upgrade for Obito.
 
Kakashi shouldnt be downgraded as he did that with a power boost.

Juubito should be above him in every way, tbh. As juubito > Normal obito's chakra infused Kakashi.
 
I would appreciate if somebody could inform Kkapoios and TheMightyRegulator about this thread.
 
Since people seemed to have reached an agreement, one thing.


@Joseph, the whole Kakashi has less chakra than Pre-TS Naruto has been retconned, no?

Kakashi could barely use Sharingan for extended periods of time Pre-TS.

Post-TS he could only use Kamui once or twice.

War, he was spamming everything.
 
At this state Kakashi should be scaled to Obito's speed.Which in my opinion should be MHS+ for surprizing Six Paths Madara, but most people didn't share the same opinion so Obito is MHS even in his most powerful forms.

So i guess Kakashi should be MHS.
 
Technically the bodily modifications made by the gaining of the sage of sixth paths chakra would explain why his speed would in base would be so close to when he was using his much stronger forms. The war arc however was ridiculously inconsistent and his showings were usually much less than what would be implied later on.

I would prefer a downgrade as well.
 
@Kkapoios, Why did people not want the MHS+ Obito? What were the reasons?


@TheMightyRegulator, won't it be inconsistent not to upgrade Obito? He was blitzing all the Hokage iirc, and Kakashi is here with MHS+ stats, that should scale to him too.

Most characters could do nothing against Juubi Jinchuriki.

And if Kakashi's stats are downgraded, won't it affect Gai's too?
 
I personally do not have an opinion, but am fine with what Kkapoios, TheMightyRegulator, and Dark649 agree about.
 
LlamaGod1411 said:
@TheMightyRegulator, won't it be inconsistent not to upgrade Obito? He was blitzing all the Hokage iirc, and Kakashi is here with MHS+ stats, that should scale to him too.

Most characters could do nothing against Juubi Jinchuriki.

And if Kakashi's stats are downgraded, won't it affect Gai's too?
Click to expand...
Sasuke intercepted his attack, whilst Minato and Naruto thwarted his attempted blitz,though this was still when he was unstable, admittedly.

Even afterwards though they were still comparable to him.

I'm worried they'll be circular powerscaling resulting from this, considering they've been outsped from far less.

DMS Kakashi has no relation to Gai's ratings.
 
Not sure why Kakashi should be downgraded. If Obito is upgraded, it might indeed result in circular scaling as BSM Naruto was able to react to him. Kakashi is only MHS+ with Double Kamui which was MHS+ in its first induction (or something). It was what he used to blitz Kaguya and I don't see anything wrong with it as it has been used to evade Madara's attack before.
 
Kakashi and Obito (After he lost the ten tails) are no way to be comparable in power and speed to Kaguya or Madara, him blitzing Madara and Kaguya is a big PIS.
 
I'm not talking about Kakashi's speed physically. I'm referring to his speed with Double Kamui because LlamaGod said the DMS does not warrant a speed increase which is not true because it was stated that the speed of the teleportation is drastically increased when the user uses both eyes in tandem before Obito and Kakashi used it together. And if I'm not wrong, after Obito used it to evade Madara's attack, Madara himself said something about it. And it was used a second time against Kaguya. The only thing that seems like PIS to me is the manner in which Kakashi got the powerup and not the speed of the Kamui as the impressiveness of the speed has been stated right from its inception. I also don't think it's PIS because Kakashi got both eyes and extra chakra (unlike the case with Sakura) and again, the speed of Kamui when used with both eyes has been stated to be impressive before. With both eyes and extra chakra (plus one showing before), how exactly is it PIS? If Kakashi had blitzed Kaguya without the usage of Double Kamui, you could have been on to something, but he didn't so I don't still understand the problem with his current speed rating.
 
@Burning, My Second post talks about the fact that the speed of teleportation is increased.

The PhysicalSpeed isn't. Shouldn't really be able to react to Kaguya.
 
Okay. I must have missed that as I was referring to the original post.

I'm not sure. When did Kakashi react to Kaguya physically? Wasn't it the teleportation he used to intercept her when she used her ash bones on Naruto? If you're referring to him becoming intangible to evade Kaguya's attack, he did it just barely as the bones cracked his Susanoo before he became intangible just in time for the attack to phase through him. And again, nothing's strange about it because he just received the Mangekyō Sharingan that grants increased visual perception and chakra from Obito to boost his physical parameters. Obito was able to become intangible in time to evade BM Naruto's attacks despite the fact he should logically be faster than Obito after fully synchronizing with Kurama. If anything, it's Obito that should be upgraded but that's not possible as it will cause circular scaling.
 
Why? That's not the first or last time that Naruto reacted to someone that's supposed to be faster than him and as far as I know, nobody else scales to his reaction speed. But I guess it can be regarded as an inconsistency if necessary.
 
Kakashi recieved a boost by SO6P chakra, which is more than justified for his current standing which is MHS+

And keeping up with kaguya in speed is not an outlier, considering he did this more than once

1- Saved sakura from kaguya's attack

2- turns intangible before Kaguya's attack touches him

3- Attacks her before she could react in the very next page

4- Kamui's her ash killing bones before it could pierce naruto or sasuke

Considering it was only usable for few chapters , this is more than enough to prove Kakashi was in Naruto's league in terms of Speed
 
^ I think the argument is that Juubito should be ahead in stats, when compared to DMS Kakashi. If Juubito isn't MHS+, how can Kakashi be MHS+?
 
Juubito was never stable while kakashi was able to spam kamui indicating he had control over his SO6P powers. So comparing kakashi to Juubito doesnt make any sense
 
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