Naruto Moon splitting calc

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Coming because of talk here.

The KE calc of split here is wrong, as KE is an energy of motion of a singular object. Moon does not move here, something (I don't know what, as links to the feat do not work. Maybe it’s a magical energy that splits it making KE type of calc inapplicable, idk) splitting it does. So KE would be needed to be calculated using the "something's" mass, not Moon's.

Moving the Moon part is fine though.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Ok, I kinda just clocked in on what you are saying. And I'm sorry, but you are not making a lick of sense to me at all.

You keep saying "energy of motion of a singular object" and "moon does not move" and "needed to be calculated using the "something's" mass, not Moon's." however literally none of your objections happens in the calculations.

The calculation is for the energy attack, which is the motion of a singular object.

The calculation doesn't include the speed of the Moon at all, you've made that part up entirely. The speed being used is the attack itself.

The calculation only uses the Moon's mass when referring to what is being destroyed.... because, ya know, it's the moon being destroyed!

Your arguments keep acting as though the Moon's mass is the main crux of the calculation, when it isn't. It's the distance of the Moon being used to calculate with the mass of the Moon only being applicable when it comes to the final part which is literally calculating "The moon is being destroyed at this rate of speed, how destructive is that?" which is mathematically sound. You are trying to apply completely different calculation properties to a calculation method that doesn't use or require it.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The calculation is for the energy attack, which is the motion of a singular object.

Yeah, so calculate “energy attack”’s KE, not Moon’s, using its mass, not Moon’s. Thank you very much.

The calculation doesn't include the speed of the Moon at all

Exactly my point! It doesn’t nit make any motuon, thus its KE at the moment is 0 (well, technically it does have KE by rotating, but it’s unrelated to oyr discussion so we can as well ignore that). We are on the same page here.

The speed being used is the attack itself.

Yes!

The calculation only uses the Moon's mass when referring to what is being destroyed.... because, ya know, it's the moon being destroyed!

It doesn’t work like that. If I am being annihilated, I do not have any KE. Since, yk, I do not move.


TL;DR:
Kinetic Energy of Moon = mass of the Moon * (speed of Moon)^2 / 2 = 0 (if you ignore rotation)
Speed of energy attack = mass of energy attack * (speed of energy attack)^2 / 2 = ??? (we do not have mass of energy attack, and I doubt something like this even has one)

 

[karo_senpaii]

Coming because of talk here.

The KE calc of split here is wrong, as KE is an energy of motion of a singular object. Moon does not move here, something (I don't know what, as links to the feat do not work. Maybe it’s a magical energy that splits it making KE type of calc inapplicable, idk) splitting it does. So KE would be needed to be calculated using the "something's" mass, not Moon's.

Moving the Moon part is fine though.

the moon moves. It splits into 2.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

the moon moves. It splits into 2.

1) Being split in two does not really mean motion. If I split the cheese into and it still stands, does it move? No, lol;
2) Unrelated to the feat of split itself since, even if Moon moved, it happens after the split;
3) Even if it moved, it wouldn’t move at the speed of slash, lol. You would have to calc it independently.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Coming because of talk here.

The KE calc of split here is wrong, as KE is an energy of motion of a singular object. Moon does not move here, something (I don't know what, as links to the feat do not work. Maybe it’s a magical energy that splits it making KE type of calc inapplicable, idk) splitting it does. So KE would be needed to be calculated using the "something's" mass, not Moon's.

Moving the Moon part is fine though.

The moon clearly moves, but you're saying that the movement has nothing to do with Toneri, so we can't apply kinetic energy (KE)?

For example: if I cut a tree trunk and it falls to one side, I could calculate the kinetic energy, but I wouldn't scale up to it, is that what you mean?

 

[Arkenis]

1) Being split in two does not really mean motion. If I split the cheese into and it still stands, does it move? No, lol;

So you just didn't move it with your split.

2) Unrelated to the feat of split itself since, even if Moon moved, it happens after the split;

The split has force from the sword/energy beam/strike which pushes the two halves apart.

3) Even if it moved, it wouldn’t move at the speed of slash, lol. You would have to calc it independently.

True.

 

[Arkenis]

Coming because of talk here.

Moon does not move here,

In the moment it is cut we see the halves "fall" from one another making a V like shape. That is the movement.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The moon clearly moves

Thanks for the clip!

but you're saying that the movement has nothing to do with Toneri, so we can't apply kinetic energy (KE)?

Yes, exactly. You cannot just randomly combine Toneri’s speed of splashing and Moon’s mass, those are completely different things.

So you just didn't move it with your split.

Exactly?

The split has force from the sword/energy beam/strike which pushes the two halves apart.

They move away after the split. AKA unrelated to the character’s feat you are trying to scale them to.

In the moment it is cut we see the halves "fall" from one another making a V like shape. That is the movement.

That would scale Moon’s durability and has nothing to do with Goemon’s AP at all.

 

[Arkenis]

They move away after the split. AKA unrelated to the character’s feat you are trying to scale them to.

They move RIGHT after it.

That would scale Moon’s durability and has nothing to do with Goemon’s AP at all.

Dude what.

Before you go and type, think about the tens of calcs of cloud splits we have and pushing cloud feats we have, these don't calc the person's strike/sword/energy beams mass, they calc the movement of the clouds KE.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Snip

Just wanted to say thanks for the help Ark, since I'm new to this calculation stuff this is how it felt trying to figure out these arguments

 

[Arkenis]

And btw, idk why those Naruot calcs were linked, just go to the Naruto verse page and Arc's calc of it is linked and approved.

Tenseigan Chakra Mode Toneri Tickles The Diameter Of The Moon With A Giant Golden Sword Of Chakra But It's Kind Of Big And Kind Of Not Big At The Same Time So We Should Probably Compromise On How Big It Is

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

And btw, idk why those Naruot calcs were linked, just go to the Naruto verse page and Arc's calc of it is linked and approved.

Tenseigan Chakra Mode Toneri Tickles The Diameter Of The Moon With A Giant Golden Sword Of Chakra But It's Kind Of Big And Kind Of Not Big At The Same Time So We Should Probably Compromise On How Big It Is

vsbattles.fandom.com

I'm gonna be honest, reason why I did that (which I just checked again) is because for god knows what reason whenever I try to link it as either an internal or external link the thing just dies. The math I used though is still the one on that.

 

[Second22]

I still haven’t seen clear evidence that the moon doesn’t move, such as analyzing its pixel and confirming that the moon remains in the same spot, with only the part that was cut disappearing. That would be much more concrete evidence, because when observed with the naked eye, it still seems to be moving.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

They move RIGHT after it.

Cool. They move at completely different speed, and it's unrelated to powerscaling since it's not characters moving it.

Dude what.

Yeah, guess what? If you are not the cause of the KE of an object, you don't scale to it!

Before you go and type, think about the tens of calcs of cloud splits we have and pushing cloud feats we have, these don't calc the person's strike/sword/energy beams mass, they calc the movement of the clouds KE.

I don't really care about the consistency in calcs if the consistency is a literal ignorance of how KE and physics in general works.

 

[Arkenis]

Cool. They move at completely different speed, and it's unrelated to powerscaling since it's not characters moving it.

The character's speed doesn't matter because what's causing the movement is their force exerted on the object.

Yeah, guess what? If you are not the cause of the KE of an object, you don't scale to it!

I don't really care about the consistency in calcs if the consistency is a literal ignorance of how KE and physics in general works.

Make a crt to get these feats removed and unusable then since how these feats are calced is standard on the site.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The character's speed doesn't matter because what's causing the movement is their force exerted on the object.

Okay, let me word it better:
WHATEVER is exerting force on the Moon, slashing it in half, is the speed and mass needed to be calculated to get KE. Randomly putting Moon’s mass is NOT correct.

Make a crt to get these feats removed and unusable then since how these feats are calced is standard on the site.

That’s literally the purpose of this thread? To fix this blatant insult to physics?

 

[Arkenis]

That’s literally the purpose of this thread? To fix this blatant insult to physics?

Then ask for it to be put in staff discussion since this effects a decent amount of calcs. Also you didn't word it in any way to suggest you want this method of calcing removed at all lol

 

[Testarossa002]

The calcs linked just simplified the process.
The calcs in the OP simply added the mass of the halves together
Let's assume some values

KE for a 4 Kg object moving at 20 m/s is 800 J
KE for a 2 kg object moving at 20 m/s is 400 J
Since the latter is halved, you multiply your result by 2 (800 J)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Then ask for it to be put in staff discussion since this effects a decent amount of calcs.

I haven’t looked into other calcs and you linked none, so can’t tell whether it’s needed or not.

 

[Arkenis]

I haven’t looked into other calcs and you linked none, so can’t tell whether it’s needed or not.

So you want this method removed, didn't know others calcs do it (and are approved), yet you thought you'd go to cgm discussions to get it removed? Also I did link a calc, the Toneri moon calc which is approved and has been used on the page for a while.

And btw, idk why those Naruot calcs were linked, just go to the Naruto verse page and Arc's calc of it is linked and approved.

Tenseigan Chakra Mode Toneri Tickles The Diameter Of The Moon With A Giant Golden Sword Of Chakra But It's Kind Of Big And Kind Of Not Big At The Same Time So We Should Probably Compromise On How Big It Is

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's another one also approved

Lü Bu cuts the sky (Record of Ragnarok)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Arkenis]

Just wanted to say thanks for the help Ark, since I'm new to this calculation stuff this is how it felt trying to figure out these arguments

I will say, you shouldn't have done the cut's measurement at the top, that isn't exactly the distance it got pushed away. I'd say putting it at center would be more appropriate since we see the distance isn't equal after its been split.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The calcs linked just simplified the process.
The calcs in the OP simply added the mass of the halves together
Let's assume some values

KE for a 4 Kg object moving at 20 m/s is 800 J
KE for a 2 kg object moving at 20 m/s is 400 J
Since the latter is halved, you multiply your result by 2 (800 J)

The issue is not that.

Let’s consider object A with mass A1 kg moving at speed A2 m/s and it splits the object B in half
Object B has mass B1 and then both halves after the cut fall down at speed B2 m/s

Object A’s KE for the feat would be: A1 * (A2)^2 / 2 Joules. This would scale to object A since it is the feat it did. It would not scale to object B since it got split in half by that energy + did not undergo through such KE.
Object B’s halves KE for the feat would be: B1 * (B2)^2 / 2 Joules. This would scale to object B (halves) since it is the feat they did. It would not scale to object A since object A never underwent through such KE, object B did.

Put whatever caused the split instead of “object A” and Moon instead of “object B”.

So you want this method removed, didn't know others calcs do it (and are approved), yet you thought you'd go to cgm discussions to get it removed?

All I want is to stop practicing the breaking of laws of physics by calculating kinetic energy for movement of A by using mass of B and speed of A.
Just because object B (Moon) moved after that does not mean anything, since it is not the character moving them specifically after the split, it’s just what happens. And you use speed of character anyways so it’s wrong either way.

Why do I have to explain 7th grade physics?

Also I did link a calc, the Toneri moon calc which is approved and has been used on the page for a while.

Here's another one also approved

Lü Bu cuts the sky (Record of Ragnarok)

vsbattles.fandom.com

I’m fine with making it a staff discussion then.

 

[Arkenis]

All I want is to stop practicing the breaking of laws of physics by calculating kinetic energy for movement of A by using mass of B and speed of A.
Just because object B (Moon) moved after that does not mean anything, since it is not the character moving them specifically after the split, it’s just what happens. And you use speed of character anyways so it’s wrong either way.

Why do I have to explain 7th grade physics?

Yeah I don't think you're wrong, but I disagreed with how you framed it before. I thought you were arguing that you can't get scaling from the movement of the moon. I'm not sure if I got confused on the two different calc but yeah you don't calc the character's speed with the objects mass to get the KE.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Yeah I don't think you're wrong, but I disagreed with how you framed it before. I thought you were arguing that you can't get scaling from the movement of the moon. I'm not sure if I got confused on the two different calc but yeah you don't calc the character's speed with the objects mass to get the KE.

Oh, sorry for confusion then. I tried to say it in OP but maybe I didn’t put emphasis on it much…

Coming because of talk here.

The KE calc of split here is wrong, as KE is an energy of motion of a singular object. Moon does not move here, something (I don't know what, as links to the feat do not work. Maybe it’s a magical energy that splits it making KE type of calc inapplicable, idk) splitting it does. So KE would be needed to be calculated using the "something's" mass, not Moon's.

Moving the Moon part is fine though.

AKA, Naruto being 5-C due to moving the Moon feat is completely fine by me, my only issue is how “splitting the Moon KE” is gotten here (arbitrarily multiply character’s speed by Moon’s mass).

It’s supposed to be a destruction calc rather than a KE calc tbh.

(I hope this time we’re on the same page)

 

[Vzearr]

Splitting the moon KE = Toneri’s AP is wrong. What else is being debated here?

 

[Arkenis]

AKA, Naruto being 5-C due to moving the Moon feat is completely fine by me, my only issue is how “splitting the Moon KE” is gotten here (arbitrarily multiply character’s speed by Moon’s mass).

It’s supposed to be a destruction calc rather than a KE calc tbh.

(I hope this time we’re on the same page)

See this is where I'm disagreeing. Are you saying that this calc is wrong? He doesn't calc the character's speed, he calcs the moon's mass and the speed which it moved which Toneri's cut caused.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

I will say, you shouldn't have done the cut's measurement at the top, that isn't exactly the distance it got pushed away. I'd say putting it at center would be more appropriate since we see the distance isn't equal after its been split.

Will do

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The Kinetic Energy of the moon being split scales to Toneri via conservation of energy. That energy has to come from somewhere, it isn’t just spontaneously created to push the halves apart. That energy comes from Toneri’s attack.

It seems like some people don’t understand the calc at all. I read here that someone thinks that we “arbitrarily multiply a character’s speed by the moon’s mass”. We don’t do that lmao. We multiply the speed at which the moon moves by its mass, as per the usual for any KE calc.