Naruto Denied Sub-Relativistic Scaling?

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Kep

I thought the thing with Kirin was brushed off because Kishi doesn't know math?

What Minato feat is that?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually am going to ask, how far away do you need to be to react to a sub-rel attack without it actually yielding sub-rel reaction?? Usually sub-rel speeds can cross even planetary distances in a second. Being 200-500 m away shouldnt make a real difference at all no?

 

[LordAizenSama]

It makes a huge difference. You're thinking in terms of what would be fast for us and not fast for character who move at mhs+. A few metres makes a big difference

As for how far away they gotta be, well, it depends on how much they move

 

[Kepekley23]

@Burning

I think it's Minato reacting to the Raikage, who is stated to be as fast as lightning, while the latter was only a few centimeters from his face, let's say 3.

0.03m/440,000m/s is 6.81818182e-8 seconds, or 0.0000000681818182s of reaction time. That, according to our speed page, is Sub-Relativistic to Sub-Relativistic+.

Even the low-end for a lightning bolt's speed (150,000m/s) would wield Sub-Relativistic reactions.

I don't think this has been discussed before.

Also, i think the japanese translation for the Kirin line simply states that it falls from a cumolonimbus at 1/1000th of a second, and that it's "faster than sound", not "hundreds of times faster" like the scanslation claims, so this could possibly validate the feat.

Using the low-end for a cumolonimbus (2000m) and subtracting it from the mountain's height (which both Lina Shields and I calc'ed at the 800m range) means that Sasuke's Kirin traveled ~1200m in 0.001 seconds. This is very, very high-end MHS+ and it lends credibility to Sub-Relativistic higher tiers, since the Mangekyo Sharingan could perceive the Kirin.

 

[LordAizenSama]

We dont accept raikage as lightning speed afaik

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

What Aizen said about the Raikage stuff.

But if the Kirin thing is legit, it'd be really nice.

 

[Kepekley23]

Well, character statements suggesting that not even the Mangekyou (which can perceive MHS blows) is a threat to him certainly support the notion of him being lightning-speed.

 

[Kepekley23]

I'm also planning on calcing and recalcing a lot of feats on Naruto. A friend of mine who is extremely well-versed in calculations in another vsdebating wiki has found and recalced a lot of nice feats from the series, and most of them have yielded better results. I think i will take those feats and calc them myself to see if i get similar results later on.

 

[Js250476]

Thanks man can't wait to see them

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Well look, getting back to The Naruto feat, Naruto reacted to Toneri's GWRE from less than 15 meters, Pixel scaling Puts Naruto at 14+ meters away before raising his hand. This was done by the same guy who calced it at Sub-Rel.

We can't use GWRE speed to calc Naruto's because that's Calc stacking, but Nothing says Naruto can't scale to it, especially considering Naruto's reaction speed ignoring Calc stacking is marginally faster.

Naruto has no anti-feats against him scaling. So why can't we scale him? It seems to me based on all of the current responses, there is no real reason not to scale him.

 

[Dark649]

I should close this thread since its against the Discussion Rules.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@FinalOrder its not calc stacking if the feat that was performed was dodged in the same scene.

Scaling to attack speed is also pretty dodgy. As attack speed is usually lower than what the chars usually move at

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Other Admin are curious also though...

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@FinalOrder its not calc stacking if the feat that was performed was dodged in the same scene.
Scaling to attack speed is also pretty dodgy. As attack speed is usually lower than what the chars usually move at

If that's the case then Naruto should scale. And if Attack Speed is Usually slower, then even more reason.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Wow epic fail. I meant attack speed is usually faster than what characters move at.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Wow epic fail. I meant attack speed is usually faster than what characters move at.

Even if that's the case, you have a person reacting to the Attack speed from 14 meters away.

It's been calced that Naruto reacting to it puts his Reaction above Toneri's Attack Speed. I just stumbled upon the Admin only thread where this was discussed but they claim calc-stacking. Gwynblieddd said Naruto shouldn't scale, but that makes no sense. I get it's Attack Speed but Naruto reacted to it from a distance where his reaction wouldn't be any less. If calcing it results in Calc stacking, there is no reason not scale him at least.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

wait, but were talking bout a base naruto's reaction speed against a flying, super trained bsm Naruto's reaction speed... how is that NOT different?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

wait, but were talking bout a base naruto's reaction speed against a flying, super trained bsm Naruto's reaction speed... how is that NOT different?

Naruto began raising his arm while still transformed. And even then, as I stated in the OP, Naruto in base has Reaction speed capable of reacting to Sasuke and Enhanced Momoshiki, both who are faster than Toneri and KCSM Naruto.

 

[Blanked]

They are faster than Toneri, but Toneri has that one attack that moves faster.

Drop the stronger = faster logic.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

They are faster than Toneri, but Toneri has that one attack that moves faster.

Drop the stronger = faster logic.

SPSM is is vastly faster than BSM which is vastly faster than KCSM. SPSM gives Naruto Reaction and Sensing >= that of Madara at his strongest. So...I'm not wrong, and a weaker form should be scaling but isn't for no good reasons.

 

[Blanked]

Toneri attack speed feat >>Any Naruto and Madara attack speed feats. Feats are feats deal with it.

That said instead of complaining and bashing your own theories around here find someone to do the calc for Naruto's reaction on Toneri and than with actual proofs try to upgrade the said characters.

I won't bother with this further.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Sighs....

A mod can close this. Hopefully UMR goes over the feat again whenever he gets around to the revisions...

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Toneri attack speed feat >>Any Naruto and Madara attack speed feats. Feats are feats deal with it.

Yeah, and a weaker form on Naruto's has a feat that scales him to Sub-Rel. But too many people against it without good reasoning.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Blanked

There is a calc, by the same person who calced GWRE at SR.

The calc for Naruto was rejected due to Calc Stacking, but at the distance Naruto was at, he should at least scale to GWRE.

But no mod or admin who voted gave a good reason why at his distance, he shouldn't scale. Infact, they all ignored Naruto being 14m away before reacting. The thread was kinda left open ended on that.

 

[Omimi]

Well, character statements suggesting that not even the Mangekyou (which can perceive MHS blows) is a threat to him certainly support the notion of him being lightning-speed.

yes i agree with u

dying ms itachi could perceive Kirin but ms sasuke fail to perceive raikage

 

[Mobzzzzz5]

Yeah Naruto should have Sub-Rel Reactions, in Base, given that he reacted to the sub-rel attack

 

[Rocker1189]

Wait, so do people have any actual reasonings against this, or is it just going to be ignored and closed again?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Its against the thread rules, so yeah to the later

 

[Rocker1189]

So, there is not discussion because it is agaist rules that do not specify any actual issues with discussing it..alright lol. I am sorry but rules against discussion are the worst rules.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

^Unless they've been discussed before countless amount of times and the result always the same ....

 

[Blanked]

Let's not complicate this further. There is a revision being done and you have calc member that said he will take care of this, so we just wait.

The thread can be closed.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Light Fang

Well, the manga explicitly showed Naruto dodging Madara's headswing, not the possible lightspeed beam extending.

Re: Mooncutter speed

1. Cinematic time; there are scene cuts in that particular feat that muddle the results somehow

2. Calc stacking; the calced mooncutter, disregarding cinematic time, showed great speed, sure, but our rules clearly indicate that we can't use the speed taken from one calc to use on another unless they happened simultaneously (like Rasenshuriken crossing the crater and Pain dodging it). The feat in question is one calc, Naruto actually raising his hand to block it is another scene entirely.

 

[DodoNova2]

Oh, it's about my calculation from what I read

 

[Rocker1189]

Discussed multiple times with the same great "reasoning" such as outlier, wow. Definitely debunked it there..

 

[DodoNova2]

Well, according to my opinion, Naruto could possibly have evolved with the speed of attack because:

• The guy had time to start running

• Removed her bijuu Mode

• raised his hand

after the attack has started less than 15 meters

 

[Gemmysaur]

Did you not see the points mentioned on why it was debunked? Cinematic time? Calc stacking?

Wow.

The reason it's deliberately ignored at this point is because, despite what the newer posters say otherwise, it's still the same old thing that's being repeated.

 

[Burstchaos]

I'm pretty sure the lightspeed thing was accepted but not reaction speed because Toneri attacked from so far away but that wouldn't work because Toneri swung his arms, meaning he can clearly swing his arms at that speed.

 

[Rocker1189]

I dont understand why it will be specified that the light fang goes at light speed if it was not to imply that Naruto could dodge it. Also cinematic timing is something that is completely speculated and not proven.

 

[Dark649]

Lightspeed Naruto was discussed and rejected countless of times in all versions of it hence why it's against the discussion rules, it's a basic fact here.

 

[Kepekley23]

Discussing prohibited topics when new evidence is found is not against the rules, however.