Nagumo vs. Sasuke

[Sivaaaaa]

Yoichi Nagumo vs. Sasuke Uchiha (Part I)

JAA/The Order Nagumo and Chunin Exams Prelims Sasuke are used
Speed is equalized
Nagumo has knowledge about the Sharingan's basic functions
Battle takes place in Kyoto, Japan
They start 20m apart

Master of Disguise:

Vengeful Heir of the Uchiha:

Goku farts on both verses:

Note that this is my first ever matchup so I apologize for any mistakes.

 

[Kachon123]

Nagumo is skilled enough to clash and fight with Sasuke despite the AP disadvantage (4.22272727x). His SI deception is something that he spams and it will allow him to draw Sasuke's attention to other things in order to make use of his weapons like invisible blade, multi-tool, and dice. As well as transformation into what seems to be a civilian in an instant, which is detailed enough to be able to trick the sharingan.

With his pistols as well, I don't see how Sasuke wins this. Nagumo is far too skilled, experienced, versatile, and lethal.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

Nagumo is skilled enough to clash and fight with Sasuke despite the AP disadvantage (4.22272727x). His SI deception is something that he spams and it will allow him to draw Sasuke's attention to other things in order to make use of his weapons like invisible blade, multi-tool, and dice. As well as transformation into what seems to be a civilian in an instant, which is detailed enough to be able to trick the sharingan.

With his pistols as well, I don't see how Sasuke wins this. Nagumo is far too skilled, experienced, versatile, and lethal.

Yeah I feared that the experience diff would make this too easy for Nagumo. Should I change it to JCC Nagumo or will that not make much of a difference?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Nagumo is skilled enough to clash and fight with Sasuke despite the AP disadvantage (4.22272727x). His SI deception is something that he spams and it will allow him to draw Sasuke's attention to other things in order to make use of his weapons like invisible blade, multi-tool, and dice. As well as transformation into what seems to be a civilian in an instant, which is detailed enough to be able to trick the sharingan.

With his pistols as well, I don't see how Sasuke wins this. Nagumo is far too skilled, experienced, versatile, and lethal.

I'm seriously confused on how the ap difference is 4 times. What exactly is nagumo ap value?
Also no his deception would not work. i don't see anything on his profile that warrants it being able to trick the sharingan

Edit: yeah the ap difference is 4 times for base Sasuke. Curse mark Sasuke basically just blitzes and one shots people comparable to that ap. I fail to see how nagumo who is 4 times weaker than they are would even be able to keep up at all. He'll likely get blitzed and one shotted

 

[DavidTPPM]

As well as transformation into what seems to be a civilian in an instant, which is detailed enough to be able to trick the sharingan.

He's not really tricking the sharingan with his disguises. The sharingans sight is just waaaayyyy too broken for that

Information Analysis and Power Mimicry (The Sharingan has the ability to "discern the reality behind any technique" and then reflect it upon its caster. This enables the user to read the way a foe weaves seals and determine the change in chakra nature and the range of the attack from the color of chakra. The Sharingan's ability to acquire and decipher this information allows its user to instantly understand, memorize, and mimic the opponent's Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu with nearly perfect accuracy. The Sharingan's ability to see chakra also allows its user to assess the opponent's remaining energy levels and their next moves )

yeah the ap difference is 4 times for base Sasuke. Curse mark Sasuke basically just blitzes and one shots people comparable to that ap. I fail to see how nagumo who is 4 times weaker than they are would even be able to keep up at all. He'll likely get blitzed and one shotted

Nagumo is significantly more skilled, experienced/intelligent, and versatile. He constantly changes the shape and style of his weapon which makes it difficult to adapt and predict his plans and deception, while Nagumo himself is so good at predicting his opponents that he can perfectly mirror their moves in tandem, making them think they're looking at a mirror.

Sasuke would heavily struggle to land any deciding blows while Nagumo could probably kill Sasuke with one or two solid strikes

 

[karo_senpaii]

He's not really tricking the sharingan with his disguises. The sharingans sight is just waaaayyyy too broken for that


Nagumo is significantly more skilled, experienced/intelligent, and versatile. He constantly changes the shape and style of his weapon which makes it difficult to adapt and predict his plans and deception, while Nagumo himself is so good at predicting his opponents that he can perfectly mirror their moves in tandem, making them think they're looking at a mirror.

Sasuke would heavily struggle to land any deciding blows while Nagumo could probably kill Sasuke with one or two solid strikes

Would nagumo even be able to damage Sasuke significantly?
I'm also pretty sure Sasuke is faster here

And y'all are downplaying Sasuke too much. They both have the same intelligence and the skill difference isn't as much as y'all say. Sasuke is a skill genius in his own right considering his skill stands out enough to be called a genius in a world among people who are skilled in martial arts in the first place

 

[Uzukeas]

Isn't Sasuke able to keep up with Hand to Hand Geniuses like Rock Lee at this point in the story? I don't think the experience gap would be THAT much of an issue, especially when he's able to fight other experienced Ninja who have years of experience on him like Haku

 

[Kachon123]

And y'all are downplaying Sasuke too much. They both have the same intelligence and the skill difference isn't as much as y'all say. Sasuke is a skill genius in his own right considering his skill stands out enough to be called a genius in a world among people who are skilled in martial arts in the first place

You might really want to check out Sakamoto Days because the combat proficiency on these guys is really next level.

 

[karo_senpaii]

You might really want to check out Sakamoto Days because the combat proficiency on these guys is really next level.

Granted I haven't read the manga and just started the anime but like, are they a re zero type of skill level? Coz if they are welp too bad for sasuke

 

[Kachon123]

He's not really tricking the sharingan with his disguises. The sharingans sight is just waaaayyyy too broken for that

Nagumo's disguises are down to the bone structure, and likely even far beyond that considering that's what a younger Nagumo considered the very basics of a proper disguise. They'll definitely work when paired with his precog resistance, precog, SI, and Stealth Mastery.

I'm also pretty sure Sasuke is faster here

Nagumo has a lot of experience fighting people faster than he is (look at Kindaka). Nagumo should still be able to keep up with this version of Sasuke's Sharingan speed thanks to his precog and resistance to analytical prediction.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Would nagumo even be able to damage Sasuke significantly?

Probably. His AP is 4x weaker than Sasukes dura but Nagumo uses sharp objects like blades and bullets which are even rated as "higher" on his profile. So like, you can be 4x stronger than me but I could still stab you with a sword.

Plus he has higher LS so he can throw Sasuke around if it comes to that.

I'm also pretty sure Sasuke is faster here

Probably yeah

And y'all are downplaying Sasuke too much. They both have the same intelligence and the skill difference isn't as much as y'all say. Sasuke is a skill genius in his own right considering his skill stands out enough to be called a genius in a world among people who are skilled in martial arts in the first place

Granted I haven't read the manga and just started the anime but like, are they a re zero type of skill level? Coz if they are welp too bad for sasuke

Sasuke is skillful, sure, but not to this level. I wouldn't say it's re zero type skill but they get pretty crazy.

Nagumo's disguises are down to the bone structure, and likely even far beyond that considering that's what a younger Nagumo considered the very basics of a proper disguise. They'll definitely work when paired with his precog resistance, precog, SI, and Stealth Mastery.

Sharingan can see even through transformation jutsu which can straight up turn a human into a shuriken so I really don't think that'd work

 

[Kachon123]

Sharingan can see even through transformation jutsu which can straight up turn a human into a shuriken so I really don't think that'd work

Scans?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Scans?

Of what? The fact it can see through transformation jutsu is confirmed by what's in the profile

Information Analysis and Power Mimicry (The Sharingan has the ability to "discern the reality behind any technique" and then reflect it upon its caster. This enables the user to read the way a foe weaves seals and determine the change in chakra nature and the range of the attack from the color of chakra. The Sharingan's ability to acquire and decipher this information allows its user to instantly understand, memorize, and mimic the opponent's Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu with nearly perfect accuracy. The Sharingan's ability to see chakra also allows its user to assess the opponent's remaining energy levels and their next moves)

The fact that transformation jutsu can be used to mask yourself as a shuriken or a sword can be seen here

 

[Kachon123]

Of what? The fact it can see through transformation jutsu is confirmed by what's in the profile

Yes, none of the scans work. I'm asking for scans of the sharingan at Sasuke's level seeing through transformation jutsu.

The fact that transformation jutsu can be used to mask yourself as a shuriken or a sword can be seen here

Is there a scan of the sharingan seeing through it?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yes, none of the scans work. I'm asking for scans of the sharingan at Sasuke's level seeing through transformation jutsu.

It's said to be a general sharingan property not assigned to a specific level.

Is there a scan of the sharingan seeing through it?

As far as I'm aware nobody was ever stupid enough to try using that since transformation jutsu is an academy level technique that literal toddlers are taught while sharingan is a high level kekkei genkai

 

[Kachon123]

It's said to be a general sharingan property not assigned to a specific level.


As far as I'm aware nobody was ever stupid enough to try using that since transformation jutsu is an academy level technique that literal toddlers are taught while sharingan is a high level kekkei genkai

Well yes, but isn't this just talking about deciphering and weaving hand signs? What does this have to do with seeing part of a giant shuriken being held by a shadow clone and figuring out via sight that it's the real Naruto using a transformation Jutsu?

So at the end of the day we don't know.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Nagumo has a lot of experience fighting people faster than he is (look at Kindaka). Nagumo should still be able to keep up with this version of Sasuke's Sharingan speed thanks to his precog and resistance to analytical prediction.

It's not even due to just the sharingan speed. It's due to Csm1 . Like Sasuke activating it proceeded to completely blitz people that could keep up with base rock lee. Mind you this same rock lee was so much faster than Sasuke that even though Sasuke could see his movements with his sharingan he could not react to them at all.

Probably. His AP is 4x weaker than Sasukes dura but Nagumo uses sharp objects like blades and bullets which are even rated as "higher" on his profile. So like, you can be 4x stronger than me but I could still stab you with a sword.

Plus he has higher LS so he can throw Sasuke around if it comes to that.

Probably yeah


Sasuke is skillful, sure, but not to this level. I wouldn't say it's re zero type skill but they get pretty crazy.

I don't think the bullet analogy is different coz it's penetrating power doesn't come from you. Like Mike Tyson in prime is probably several time stronger than me but both of us are so far below a bullets penetrating power that me using a gun just kills him. in this case the gun is just higher than his 4kt to an unknown degree.
The sword here is the same thing, it's even worse coz Sasuke would just clash with him. I don't see it making enough difference to be able to hurt Sasuke, especially curse mark Sasuke.

Sure the guy is more skilled but Sasuke is both faster and overwhelmingly stronger. A hit from Sasuke breaks the bones in his body

 

[DavidTPPM]

Well yes, but isn't this just talking about deciphering and weaving hand signs?

Uhhh no? Why would you think so? The scene of Kakashi copying handsigns didn't even happen at this point in the fight, Sasuke is just describing that sharingan can see and analyze all jutsu, something which it's accepted to be capable of in his profile.

So at the end of the day we don't know.

We do. Sasuke, a person who knows transformation jutsu, says people with sharingan can see through all jutsu.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Damn that LS difference is crazy

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't think the bullet analogy is different coz it's penetrating power doesn't come from you.

Yeah usually but Nagumos guns scale to him, the weapons used by JAA are usually custom made.

The sword here is the same thing, it's even worse coz Sasuke would just clash with him. I don't see it making enough difference to be able to hurt Sasuke, especially curse mark Sasuke.

What? Nagumo may be 4x weaker but the surface to which he's applying the force to is more than 4x smaller than a regular punch so it's still going to damage him.

Like I said the world's weakest man can still stab the world's strongest man with a sword despite them being 5-10x apart in strength because of how swords generally work.

Sure the guy is more skilled but Sasuke is both faster and overwhelmingly stronger. A hit from Sasuke breaks the bones in his body

Yeah but that hit has to land properly which is going to be really difficult, especially when avoiding Nagumos weirdass unusual weapon and deceptions

 

[karo_senpaii]

Yeah usually but Nagumos guns scale to him, the weapons used by JAA are usually custom made.

What? Nagumo may be 4x weaker but the surface to which he's applying the force to is more than 4x smaller than a regular punch so it's still going to damage him.

Like I said the world's weakest man can still stab the world's strongest man with a sword despite them being 5-10x apart in strength because of how swords generally work.

Yeah but that hit has to land properly which is going to be really difficult, especially when avoiding Nagumos weirdass unusual weapon and deceptions

Are we factoring into account that Sasuke can focus his chakra the same way he does on his feet to concentrate his durability on the spot nagumo is striking? If anything I'm more worried about his lifting strength.

Also Sasuke would be as hard to hit as nagumo will because while he isn't as skilled, he is faster, better reactions and can use substitution

 

[Kachon123]

Uhhh no? Why would you think so? The scene of Kakashi copying handsigns didn't even happen at this point in the fight, Sasuke is just describing that sharingan can see and analyze all jutsu, something which it's accepted to be capable of in his profile.

We do. Sasuke, a person who knows transformation jutsu, says people with sharingan can see through all jutsu.

The issue is that we never see that in practice so how do we know how it works? Especially the "reflect" part?

 

[DavidTPPM]

The issue is that we never see that in practice so how do we know how it works?

We know how it works because it's literally explained to us…

Like idk man, I showed you the ability accepted on the profile and even went out of my way to show you a scan explaining it, I think I cleared out any reasonable scepticism.

Especially the "reflect" part?

We see that part specifically many times, Sasuke is literally shown copying Lees martial arts with his sharingan.

 

[Kachon123]

We know how it works because it's literally explained to us…

Like idk man, I showed you the ability accepted on the profile and even went out of my way to show you a scan explaining it, I think I cleared out any reasonable scepticism.

We see that part specifically many times, Sasuke is literally shown copying Lees martial arts with his sharingan.

The issue is that there's nothing about Nagumo that Sasuke can be used to determine its him immediately by eyesight. Nothing that you sent really proves that he can.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Are we factoring into account that Sasuke can focus his chakra the same way he does on his feet to concentrate his durability on the spot nagumo is striking?

Yeah but Sasuke has literally never done that in character and at this point doing this to a significant level requires handsigns (since Sakura who's more skilled in chakra control needed to wave signs to do so)

Also Sasuke would be as hard to hit as nagumo will because while he isn't as skilled, he is faster, better reactions and can use substitution

Sure, that's where the deception and versatility come into play.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The issue is that there's nothing about Nagumo that Sasuke can be used to determine its him immediately by eyesight.

Except his real body under the disguise (since sharingan sees through solid obstacles), Nagumos chakra (since sharingan can see individuals chakra), Nagumos bloodlust (since shinobi can generally sense bloodlust), and much more.

Nothing that you sent really proves that he can.

That is just straight a lie… I sent you accepted evidence that Sasuke can see through disguises that straight up alter your body into the shape and size of a shuriken and you're saying that's not enough to see through a wig and a fake mustache? That's wild man

 

[Kachon123]

Except his real body under the disguise (since sharingan sees through solid obstacles), Nagumos chakra (since sharingan can see individuals chakra), Nagumos bloodlust (since shinobi can generally sense bloodlust), and much more.

If Sasuke senses Nagumo's bloodlust, he's getting KO'd instantly. Nagumo is literally changing his bone structure. There's no him "under" the disguise. Nagumo doesn't have chakra, but regardless, he'd likely have a resistance to that as well.

That is just straight a lie… I sent you accepted evidence that Sasuke can see through disguises that straight up alter your body into the shape and size of a shuriken and you're saying that's not enough to see through a wig and a fake mustache? That's wild man

Not if he's pulling misdirection at the same time. By the time he looks back it's going to be as if Nagumo is gone.

 

[Nierre]

to answer the Sharingan being able to see through transformation jutsu: No it cannot. Kakashi wasn't able to tell Naruto turned into a Giant Shuriken against Zabuza and he had his Sharingan active. Usually a way to tell if a character is transformed is through the inconsistencies of said transformation jutsu (if there's marks on it when there shouldn't be or vice versa, someone with exceptional observation skills or good doujutsu would be able to spot it, like Sasuke did in the Forest of Death).

 

[KingTempest]

Thank you Nierre cause I was boutta say that
Even the Rinnegan has superior vision than a 2 tomoe sharingan literally being formed from it and couldn't see Naruto disguised as a rasenshuriken
It's just saying it sees past illusions, aka through genjutsu, not trickery

Nagumo is an unnecessarily cracked character in skill, 2nd strongest in the order. He's on a different level than BOS Sasuke. He has the strength of Lee with the skill of a jonin.

Put me for Nagumo

 

[KingTempest]

I literally forgot Nagumo's killing intent. He's doing Sasuke like Orochimaru did

 

[KingTempest]

I just noticed this can't be added actually. The AP values are way too far off. Revisions haven't finished yet, Nagumo is still High 8-C on the profile

 

[Sivaaaaa]

Alr, guess this is done then