Murder Drones upgrade CRT/downgrade refutation CRT

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Well greetings everyone. I’m not very active here but I’m the resident Murder Drones expert if the internet and I made this little CRT because I disapprove of the downgrade CRT(I actually debated with the person who made that CRT but they resorted to consistent fallacies and ducked me, which is why I’m making this lol. Funny how we both have “Arceus” in our name though).

With this I will not only be making arguments to debunk the downgrade but also reinstate the original large planet stats via new information from ep 6.


Now without further ado, I’m going to start with debunking the arguments for the debunk.

1. The explosion came from inside and all the

energy went into the atmosphere.

It was a core explosion, as in, the very center of the planet, and it seemed to explode more so like an erruption, blasting upwards into space, rather than being a constantly expanding erruption. This is supported by the fact that we see a shockwave move the planet's clouds for only a certain extent and then stop.




This actually isn’t the case, the “planet core collapse” in episode 1 was pure deception, it was actually caused by the most mysterious admin, Nori, escaping Cabin Fever Labs which we see in episode 6(). It was never actually an explosion from the core.(for those who need it explained, Alice is talking about Nori leaving the other experiments for dead and says”she thought imploding all them folks was pretty slick” which is very clearly talking about the humans and that lines up with how Nori is an admin and that the lack of humans is what made escape possible. Alice also mentions Nori’s yellow eyes which means that Nori is an admin and was under the control of the AbsoluteSolver with the intent to destroy Copper 9, which makes it clear that Nori was responsible for the explosion. The explosion being the exact same color as the Solvers used by admins and the [Null] string Solver ability is the final nail in the coffin)

I’d also like to add that there were numerous drones in Cabin Fever Labs in episode 6 that survived the explosions and these drones we see are very much shown to not be any stronger or more durable in physical stats in comparison to normal Workers besides Yeva and maybe S if they are in Cabin Fever Labs like I’ve been theorizing.(this would also mean that we have confirmation of drones at the epicenter surviving which means that the original large planet level yield would be valid) I’ll get to this again later.

This also supports the fact that the characters could not have tanked an explosion that didn't reach them in the first place as only the shockwave ever reached them.

Uzi’s colony yes, but there is verbal confirmation in the series of other colonies in each city “with this colony wiped we’ll make top team this quarter for sure”, “I’m kinda the leader of the squad in this city”, there is also those drones in Cabin Fever Labs(in case you don’t know how the explosion we see is episode 1 is from Cabin Fever Labs, I’d like to mention that in the picture of Nori, a Sentinel, Yeva, and a JCJenson employee, the employee is wearing the exact same hazmat uniform and the exact same monitor is shown in episode 6 except damaged and with a second warning in addition to the planet core collapse notice.)

2. In the scene right after in the place where worker drones live (the only known place where they live) we see very well that the buildings are intact and humans skeletons are very much intact as well, despite being outside.

True. They are very much outside the blast radius, as is Uzi’s colony, however they still scale above the experiments shown in episode 6 who were at the epicenter.(though I’d like to mention that we bare minimum know that Tessa is superhuman, she may be the exception to the rule instead of the rule given that she’s more durable than a normal Worker Drone which are by far more durable than humans, but if other humans are even ⅙ as durable as Tessa then that would make it much more believable to begin with[Tessa is more durable than the average Worker Drone as she was able to get bit by Uzi without losing her finger meanwhile a wounded and sedated Uzi was able to bite off Alice’s fingers , plus she’s shown above average strength at least because as a child she was able to lift N and spin him around easily even though her hands were already sore and bruised from her abusive parents chaining her up so much ])

Yep, 6-B humans anyone? I think it is pretty clear that whatever of the explosion reached them managed to kill the humans but clearly not char them or the buildings. Buildings, skeletons, bunkers..

Yeah, Uzi’s colony isn’t near the explosion at all, for reasons I already said I don’t feel like it is a smoking gun argument, but the CRT is correct in this point(though 6B humans also wouldn’t be too out of the question because again, Tessa is an absolute monster in terms of physical stats when compared to even Worker Drones.

Hell, even forests survived. Note, these trees are BIG. They've been here for a while and it hasn't been a while since the explosion happened. WDs didn't live long before the Murder Drones appeared, this happened within a short time-span as N's master from before he became a DD is only just now an adult or a young-adult.

This isn’t important for the scaling either way but since MD lore as a whole comes first to me over debating, I’d like to make a correction. These trees snap the moment Uzi lands on them in episode 4, this means that they are long dead to begin with(most likely from radiation the day of the explosion), and it’s actually been quite a long time since the explosion. We don’t have an exact timeline but Nori had plenty of time to return to the colony, warn Khan to build doors against the Murder Drones(though sadly he didn’t listen till she had already died.), and seemingly had been there for quite some time given the entire room dedicated to Nori’s kooky insane stuff.(also MD is kinda weird about time, for example there is a 9 month timeskip between episodes 3 and 4 and an unknown timeskip between episodes 2 and 3, and 4 and five).

In short, if the explosion with 6-B force hit everything within a planet's radius i think everything would begone, and yet here we are with lakes, buildings and spooky scary skeletons.

True. It definitely was concentrated and dispersed into one area mainly(with the shockwave and radiation being just enough to kill off all humans)

3. There's no evidence that there were WDs anywhere near the explosion that survived

This is simple. All Worker Drones we see live in a city and near the city we see no, you know, pacific ocean-sized burned out crater? Yeah, it is nowhere near the actual explosion site, and there's nothing to suggest that anyone tanked it there.

This however is false. As I mentioned before, Cabin Fever Labs was the site of the explosion and plenty of drones such as Alice, Beau, Nori herself, Yeva, and 029 survived the explosion just fine at the source(and of course Nori caused the explosion to escape, with even Alice saying “She thought imploding all those folks was pretty slick”). All basic Workers scale to this and even a wounded and sedated Uzi easily bit off Alice’s fingers.

4. 6-B is a MASSIVE OUTLIER.

I’ve seen this argument made more times than I can count but I strongly disagree.

There are exactly 0 AP or durability feats that are beyond tier 0 for this verse

There are zero feats besides upscaling that can be properly calced(Uzi’s railgun for example can’t really be calced because it’s not an explosion like people think, it was confirmed by her to be a “magnetically amplified photon converger” which means that it is just weaponizing photons via magnetism(standard sci-fi stuff), and the MD missiles seem to just be incredibly contained explosions like the core collapse). There was also N holding the door open and Uzi bending a microphone but those are very casual feats that don’t really matter much.

All feats are some damage to floors, missiles with small explosions and Uzi getting thrown into the clouds this one time. There is nothing that is even tier 8, much less freaking Country level.

The problem is that Uzi being thrown is an incredibly causal feat, and of course I mentioned that the missiles are more compact and seem to be fully concentrated at the epicenter like real world rockets from an RPG for example.

"But Arceus, verses without many feats can have higher tiers since it is hard to be an outlier in that case! To have an outlier they need to have a lower feat push them to their limit!"

This argument is completely valid. It goes to show that this was made in bad faith given the mocking tone despite them being exactly right. These “outliers” are the only actual feats that can logically be calced. The rest are just blatantly misunderstanding context and science as a whole.

1. It does have feats, they are just lower end tier 9 and uncalculated

*can’t be calced. A lot of these feats cannot be reliably calced because the only feats are either characters damaging each other or things like explosions which just don’t have much of an AOE.


None of which were strained or resulted in major damage. Either

2. Say hello to this. Uzi tanks an explosion and seemingly gets hurt.

Honestly I don’t get how people think that this is an explosion. Uzi’s railgun fires by amplifying photons, it just malfunctioned and fired improperly due to missing a part and the recoil(don’t really get why they gave it recoil when it’s confirmed photonic but they do show the recoil numerous times, it’s probably to do with magnetism or science things that I don’t understand) slammed the gun into her forehead hard enough to hurt her.

Calling it an explosion and trying to use an explosion formula for it was never an accurate decision and given that the show blatantly said what it was I’m a little concerned that people even approved of calling it one.

Here's the calc. It couldn't even properly nuke the bunker door. Now, one could argue that the bandages were a meaningless little thing similar to how drones always imitate humans meaninglessly (admittedly i doubt they need a cold compress) but nevertheless despite being rebellious by nature, Uzi still keeps herself bandaged up for a while which means she probably was hurt to at least some extent.

She was hurt but it wasn’t really an explosion so it can’t really be calced that way. We just know that she got hit by the recoil of a gun made out of the same metal as the Workers, which really can’t be calced unless we already assume certain stats for Worker Drones which would make the argument self contradictory.

5. True final one, the entire point of ep 1 is that DDs cannot and I repeat CANNOT get past the giant metal doors and cannot destroy the facility.

True but any metal no matter how strong it is can be blocked by a more dense and stable concentration of the same metal. All JCJenson products are just as durable as the Disassembly Drones(even things like pens and forks) “damn the well made quality assured durability of JCJenson products” which shows that they clearly have a wealth of this metal and JCJenson is the one confirmed colonizer of Copped 9 so it’s just a matter of it being the same metal. Worker Drones also very blatantly build more of each other so once again they clearly use that same metal for all of their work, which would mean that any feat related to a form of metal would by default be unusable because the metal as a whole would scale to the large planet level yields.

If they were 6-B they could have just sliced through the steel doors, ones that, you know, were never suggested to be some 6-B material and ones that can be welded into, well, doors.

These are also human made bunkers so they've no reason to be made to fight off 6-B threats.

The doors were never stated to be steel either. I get that steel is the baseline material that is safe to assume an object is made of, but that’s only if the metal doesn’t already have feats of tanking something that steel couldn’t such as the Copper 9 explosion, which means that this argument doesn’t work as it’s being used to counter usage of a feat of surviving an explosion and yet it is reliant on an assumption that disregards the feat to function.


The fact that humans could make the drones in the first place and that they can create things as advanced as Sentinels makes it so that having bunkers this durable isn’t anything particularly notable or shocking.

On accident they created an AI that can be corrupted and turned into a reality warping Eldritch nightmare. One that has destroyed multiple planets in multiple different solar systems bare minimum and is stated to be a threat to the universe. Comparably them using the same metal is very logical.

The characters need to be downgraded to 9-A and scaled from that. That is basically all

Overall I’ve raised my issues with this and come to the conclusion that not only is the downgrade unnecessary and that on top of that, the original large planet level yields can be restored to their pages.



I’d also like to address some of his arguments to Psychomaster because I also have a few counter arguments towards some of those.

Absolute Solver shouldn't really count here considering we've never see what it can do at a proper, full power. They don't create singularities left and right, it is a thing that it can technically do. Until someone tanks it face-first this doesn't support much.

This is incorrect. They very much do create singularities left and right. Uzi and Cyn both do. The only difference is that Uzi was sedated the first time and the second time Uzi’s arm was cut off, which both canceled it. Uzi actually heavily upscales Cyn’s planet level feat because in episode 5 it was revealed that Uzi managed to override Cyn’s admin status over V and N . All AbsoluteSolver admins(so far the only ones we know so far are Uzi, Nori, and Cyn though) as a whole scale by default anyway because all other admins are supposed to eventually become full puppets of The AbsoluteSolver and destroy the planet they are on, just like what happened to Cyn.

So while we haven’t seen it’s full power, we do see large planet level feats which every admin scales to and Uzi specifically upscales.

The reason others don't get hurt by anyone other than themselves is because nobody has shown up who isn't them who has tried to hurt them. So far there is literally one human in the whole thing and barely any feats of collapse or material destruction except for the one I calced so we haven't seen any threat like that either.

They have one actual feat, a bunch of upscaling, and zero anti feats to speak of with a few casual feats that don’t really prove or disprove them. Due to the lack of any anti feats and the existence of an actual feat there isn’t really anything against the scaling.. not to mention the planet destruction in ep 5.

AOE fallacy works properly when there is a clear indication that the character is beyond that feat. In this case we've never seen a proper feat beyond tier 9, the 6-B "feat" couldn't even blow up a basic-ass city made of rocks and metal and couldn't even vaporize a skeleton or two. This is a case where AoE fallacy doesn't apply imo because AoE fallacy is basically just a destructive capacity outlier, though imo the 6-B feat is the reverse of that, a feat that is calculably 6-B but doesn't actually show levels of damage near that.

I’d be inclined to agree with this if it wasn’t for Cabin Fever Labs, but inevitably there are drones who survived the explosion as revealed in episode 6 so the AOE fallacy does work, even if Uzi’s colony itself was outside of the radius in a different city.

Also I feel like addressing the gun argument.

Well I am just gonna, y'know, point out another thing where a human lady shot a gun at one of the drones and they deemed it dangerous enough to counter

This is untrue. Cyn doesn’t feel threatened, she’s annoyed. It’s like when you swipe at a mosquito or a fly that keeps getting close to you. Her expression and tone alone show that she doesn’t feel threatened and in that scene she was just being interrupted constantly mid sentence(in addition to her never showing any form of reaction that would imply she feels threatened, she also blocked things like Tessa throwing the gun as well which 100% wouldn’t have actually done anything) https://imgur.com/a/EeMDHZH.

It is also important to note that again, this is a weapon owned by the Elliot family, you can bet that the bullets would be made with the same sci-fi metal that survived the explosion in the first place given that they buy things from JCJenson(we already know that JCJenson creates things like guns anyway since Cyn was able to give MDs guns when creating them in the first place).

It was a basic freaking revolver too. I know that you could argue that she didn't know what that was and had to counter it but I sorta doubt it since they've been learning about human stuff for a while.

I’ll reiterate for the sake of it that her expressions and attitude alone show that it was more that she was annoyed that Tessa cut her off. She’s never shown to have been threatened by anything once in the episode. And it doesn’t really matter what the revolver is, we already know that it is no real world gun so we can already give a little bit more leeway, especially given that the gun isn’t what matters, but what it fires is. If they use bullets made of the same material(which Occam’s razor points towards).

I’m going to readdress some of the “counter arguments” Arceus used in our debate about this just so that he doesn’t try reusing them if he shows up and to keep other people from using arguments I’ve already refuted.

I don’t particularly like repeating myself too much so posting my rebuttals to these arguments ahead of time will prevent a headache and it will also give you a little list of things already debunked and countered so that if you have any other contentions you can skip to those.

The woman being 6-B just because of superhuman showings makes 0 sense. This is a world where science exists at least to some extent. Humans are fragile, they get vaporized in the explosion. Unless we get confirmation that she is part robot or sth there's no evidence to suggest that she is that strong. There's no logical way for her to be that strong in the verse. This isn't a shonen, it is a verse that has shown that humans are naturally weak. Some girl training for a bit isn't making her millions of times above the Tsar Bomb.

Factually incorrect. It’s shown that humans are less durable than Worker Drones(which isn’t a universal rule as Tessa herself proves), it has not been shown that humans are fragile and are baseline human. I’m not even trying to argue that they are all superhuman because it is fairly clear that Tessa is stronger than the rest, but at the very least if they are even 1/100th as strong as Tessa then suddenly the human skeleton’s surviving would make sense(not that I need to justify such given that I already agreed that Uzi’s colony was far away anyway).

The whole thing about the metal is an assumption, a theory. Unless there's good evidence to suggest that the gun is made from that metal, it stays what it is - a revolver.

it is owned by the Elliots who explicitly buy from JCJenson, and as I said it isn’t the gun that matters but the bullets. We already know that the drones are that durable(as I’ve proven those in Cabin Fever Labs tanked the explosion) and the company would have to also create guns because Cyn had access to them to create Murder Drones. The evidence is there, it’s the bullets the gun fires that matter and it makes the most sense that it’s the same metal.

Confused the names, I was talking about Doll

Doll wasn’t scared or threatened by the bullet, she knew it wasn’t even going to hit her. She was worried that the AbsoluteSolver would activate on it’s own to stop the bullet, which would expose that she has it. This is the reason Doll took the precaution of having that button eyepatch, because that very thing did happen(in the scene you can even see that the bullet swerves in mid air and even loops mid air because the Solver activated passively) and the button eyepatch covering her eye was the one thing keeping Tessa from seeing the Solver symbol and noticing it.

She however dropped the act anyway in episode 6 because Uzi showed up with V(she wanted to kill V and Uzi is still an enemy of her) which complicated it.

Doesn't mean they'd use the same metal.

Why would they use a stronger metal for pens and drones then they do for guns? I could maybe see it for the drones, but everything JCJenson makes is unilaterally as durable as them, including their pens.

-Railgun explosion had limited power as seen with it not nuking the door. We don't know how contained it is. Just because it's sci-fi we cannot just assume its AP is above its destructive capacity by default

I wanted to address this response because it is a microcosm of the straws being grasped in many MD debates and how the same arguments continue being countered but the same people keep making those arguments over and over again.

The railgun shots are not explosive. Period. It has never shown any form of AOE, just scattered light that has done no damage. It is canonically stated to be photonic https://imgur.com/a/ZVVifMu, and if it was an explosion then it would make no sense that the teacher amd front desk students weren’t hurt by the explosion and only Uzi and the door she was pointing at were.

In the case that Uzi is 9-A and/or held back the punch it is realistic enough for fiction. 6-B isn't. Don't remember the LS feat.

This isn’t really an argument that anyone will use(it wasn’t even a punch it was a bite, one that Uzi was very clearly not holding back at all and she was even shown to be capable of biting off the fingers of Alice who is a Worker Drone, despite Uzi being on sedatives already so bad that she could hardly move and couldn’t even properly use any Solver abilities other than regeneration), but the important part is the end there. “Don’t remember the lifting strength feat” i had already explained the Tessa lifting strength feat multiple times in that debate prior which means that they weren’t actually paying attention to the arguments reading and responding blindly, I’m mainly mentioning this just because I find it irritating that my arguments and evidence are being ignored rather than properly addressed. I guess that’s what happens when you debate for Murder Drones not being fodder.

Anyways let me remind you that throughout this series we also see that Uzi was scared when she was falling from the clouds (the energy of her falling down from there is tier 9)

The fall “antifeat” huh? All I have to say is that this is factually wrong because it is out of context. Uzi was “scared” because she had just hurt N and he had to throw her. She was already breaking down due to feeling isolated and alienated by the students and seeing that even Murder Drones fit in more than her, and V prior jad projected her insecurities of V moving on without her directly onto Uzi which made Uzi afraid of N potentially abandoning her.

It is very telling that she not only shows zero fear after 2 seconds of falling(except for when she asks if N is going to leave her which makes it pretty clear what it was that she feared), but that she also never tries to fly or slow her descent. It is very obvious that she was never threatened by the fall. Hell N survived the fall himself without a scratch and Solver Uzi is far physically stronger and more durable than N is.

and that at one point a murder drone got pierced by a pen. It was a hard pen but throwing a pen at such speeds and actually hurting a 6-B entity?

Can’t wait for someone else to unironically use this argument. The show itself makes fun of such an argument. J literally says “Damn the well made quality assured durability of JCJenson products” which makes it clear that all JCJenson products as a whole are just as durable as the MDs rather than that being an anti feat. That is not debatable and therefore it is absolutely unusable as an anti feat.

I went to rewatch that scene and the reason she wasn't really scared was that it was literally her type of behaviour. She was completely unphazed and coldblooded throughout her rampage in the mansion.

False. She blatantly shows fear earlier in the same episode so she very clearly can feel it. Therefore if she wasn’t afraid when Tessa shot at her then she wasn’t threatened by her. https://imgur.com/a/SnGGZ8u

Another thing we ought to understand is that Nori has the solver and we already scale people like Cyn to 5-B. A fully developed solver user shouldn't scale to the average Worker Drone, they are literally stated to be mutated

Good thing that Alice, Beau, and 029 survived and they don’t have the AbsoluteSolver

There are only 2 types of feats thus far in the series - lower end tier 9 feats or feats that are calculated to be tier 5.

These normal feats themselves are generally either lifting strength(which doesn’t effect AP, DC, or durability to begin with), or completely unusable via issues(such as calling a clear laser an explosion).

We know that the top tiers of the verse, the mutated drones with the absolute solver, can destroy planets and create giant singularities. Problem is we know NOTHING about them beyond what we've been shown.

We know plenty. We know that admins gain access to the [Null] string which creates black holes and that the AbsoluteSolver selects certain drones as admins who are meant to destroy the planet they are on with the [Null] string. This is common knowledge.

We don't know if Cyn could even attempt to survive what she created,

Yes we do. We see a flashback to the singularity just before Earth’s destruction in episode 4. Cyn was just fine while the blackhole started consuming everything around her.

Stretching every single bit of metal and every weapon and every character to be 6-B makes 0 sense, it is, how they call it here, wank.

Not if it is confirmed by a statement in the first episode. That’s just called canon. Anyone see why I have such a negative reaction to all arguments I’m debunking here? It’s because I’ve debunked the same arguments over and over and cited a canon statement evidencing my argument and yet all that happens is it gets ignored and then they throw some toxic nonsense.

I suggest that you wait until the first season comes out fully and we actually see what went on.

? We know exactly what went on. They weren’t exactly subtle about it. On one hand I think these are all just repeating and I think I’ve already debunked every single argument they’ve made, but on the other hand they repeat the same things so many times that I guess I can debunk some multiple times.

This simply isn't how a tier 6 verse looks like.

So a series with two large planet level feats(one that even the weakest characters can tank), an antagonist that is destroying solar systems one planet at a time systematically to root out human civilization, a complete lack of anti feats ghat can’t either be factually debunked or called into series question, isn’t what a strong verse would look like? That doesn’t make sense. However not being tier six is correct because I’ve already proven that the explosion came from Nori escaping Cabin Fever Labs and that there were other drones in Cabin Fever which means that the old large planet level value(which was only lowered to country due to distance values that were already questionable given that Uzi’s colony is not the only one. Now that we know where the explosion really was, we know that certain drones survived within the explosion(and all of them besides Yeva and the Sentinels are normal Workers stat wise given that Beau, Alice, and 029 don’t have the ability to use the AS.

This isn't a toon where characters can show tier 10-9 feats most of the time but do crazy tier 4-3 feats whenever they feel like it.

Which isn’t what happens. Most calcs done are either not relevant to AP, DC, and durability(such as lifting strength), or are factually unusable because they are inherently flawed(such as the calc calling the railgun shot an explosion and the lifting strengthen calc for Uzi via resisting Doll’s telekinesis even though that was immunity not strength).

It is a series that acknowledges science and uses at least some levels of coherent logic. Making a random human girl 6-B isn't logical at all unless you are in a shonen or JRPG.

That is exactly why the feats and lack of actual working anti feats is so obvious. It is also why it’s such a big lapse in judgment for the entire forum that people called a shot from a photon converger an explosion.

It wasn't as direct of a link as you state and yet again we scale AS drones to 5-B already, if they were in the middle of the explosion while it happened they'd be 5-B in durability and 5-B Worker Drones and 5-B Tessa makes even less sense than 6-B. If you unironically argue for that then i'll just stop discussing this with you right then and there.

Ahh yes, “It isn’t as direct as you say.” “It’s stupid that you are arguing something that I can’t debunk and if you argue it then I will run away because I can’t accept any arguments that go against what I myself say”. Good thing there is an MD expert who can actually prove arguments.

You know what? Screw it all. I am just not gonna respond any further to this. This is ridiculous. If you want to change it back then make a CRT. I ain't gonna waste my time here any longer.

The statement that made me decide to make this CRT. The little toxicity overload that made it clear that there was no argument to raise against large planet level MD when I inevitably proved it.

Now the things I want changed is simple: I bare minimum wish to reinstate the country level stats, however by all means the large planet level yields should actually be reinstated. I’m planning a secondary CRT(or can I add to this one after I already post it? Haven’t done a CRT before) about things such as hax and abilities, because for some reason it has been absolutely forever since Uzi’s page has been updated with proper recent information. A full 3 episodes worth that would really change the hax list(after all Uzi has shown telekinesis, regeneration, and matter manipulation months ago so it is strange how they are still listed as “possible”, I also seek to remove “explosion manipulation” and “energy manipulation” because Uzi’s railgun is not energy based nor is it explosive).

Overall this is the premise of my argument: The country level MD downgrade is unnecessary and inaccurate, and that the OG large planet level value should be reinstated based off new information.

It’s late where I live so I’m probably going to sleep soon. If anyone wants to raise arguments or has general questions then I’ll try to respond to them before I fall asleep. If I can’t then I’ll respond next chance I get.

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

this took forever for me to finish lol. Remember: If someone reads this(knowing my luck y’all won’t lol) and responds, I might not respond tonight and I can’t guarantee a specific time. It’s night here and I’ll be pretty busy tomorrow so please hold out if you feel that you have a really solid counter argument that you want addressed(or even if you just have any general questions about MD and it’s scaling)

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah...Considering how half of the arguments are "oh..Well it didn't destroy the entire country". It seems ******* sketchy, doesn't help how doing that would downgrade like...99% verses (that aren't china man wank, but those operate on a whole different spectrum).

Spoiler

But isn't tanking a planetary explosion from the surface, like...High 8-C, due to reverse law square shenanigans?

Also we have ******* solar system pipes, and Multiversal level guns

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Yeah...Considering how half of the arguments are "oh..Well it didn't destroy the entire country". It seems ******* sketchy, doesn't help how doing that would downgrade like...99% verses (that aren't china man wank, but those operate on a whole different spectrum).

Spoiler

But isn't tanking a planetary explosion from the surface, like...High 8-C, due to reverse law square shenanigans?

Also we have ******* solar system pipes

Yeah. Consistent arguments are hard to come by lately. I didn’t intend to get involved with the tiering of MD characters on here but when someone showed me Arceus0x’s CRT I absolutely had to get involved.

Overall what is your opinion about my arguments here? Do you agree or disagree with them as a whole?

 

[Arceus0x]

Ah not this again.

I'll respond later.

 

[Arceus0x]

I'll say two things.

One, this entire thing relies on Association fallacy. All metal by JC being 6-B relies on one feat where the MDs presumably tank the big explosion presumably point blank. There are 0 other feats to support 6-B beyond this one example. There's also nothing to suggest beyond assumptions that anything else is made out of the same metal as murder drones. Irl we don't use Titanium to build bunkers and submarines and ships even if titanium is one of the strongest metal and is used for the most durable objects.

Another thing this argument relies on is the presumption that the Cabin Fever labs were in the middle of the giant explosion and everyone inside survived. What's the issue? I've mentioned it in my final argument that actually.
It's very convenient how you kept the part about me quitting the argument and not the part where i argued aboud Cabin Fever labs. Funny. Real funny.

Cabin fever labs aren't the ones where Nori was and were not the ones Nori imploded. Hell, for all we know the implosion could have been the big hole she left in the ground that we see in ep 5 that leads into the labs.
The labs are clearly shown not to be in the planet-deep crater from which the explosion happened, they were clearly near the surface, at least relative to the big crater.
This in turn means neither the labs nor the fellas inside it died to her tanked the explosion, debunking the entire scaling argument.

This also supports a previous argument I had with you, the fact that the recording of Nori escaping was present in the CF labs despite the explosion happening elsewhere.
The labs being the CF labs from which Nori escapes makes perfect sense now since it'd make perfect sense for cctv camera recordings of the labs to be present in the labs themselves, instead of them being recordings from a base that was deep in the crater and got wiped out and thus wouldn't sensibly have survived the explosion.

 

[Shmooply]

I ain't reading allat: the thread.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Yeah...Considering how half of the arguments are "oh..Well it didn't destroy the entire country". It seems ******* sketchy, doesn't help how doing that would downgrade like...99% verses (that aren't china man wank, but those operate on a whole different spectrum).

Spoiler

But isn't tanking a planetary explosion from the surface, like...High 8-C, due to reverse law square shenanigans?

Also we have ******* solar system pipes, and Multiversal level guns

Lol, we got the low 1-C bricks and bombs

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

One, this entire thing relies on Association fallacy. All metal by JC being 6-B relies on one feat where the MDs presumably tank the big explosion presumably point blank. There are 0 other feats to support 6-B beyond this one example. There's also nothing to suggest beyond assumptions that anything else is made out of the same metal as murder drones. Irl we don't use Titanium to build bunkers and submarines and ships even if titanium is one of the strongest metal and is used for the most durable objects.

JCJenson products as a whole were stated to be incredibly durable and capable of harming MDs. That alone is enough to prove my point. A canon statement supporting me means it isn’t association fallacy. Though it’s funny how you ran away in the debate and said you weren’t arguing but came back now. Clearly you can debate more and were just running to avoid me raising more counter arguments.

Another thing this argument relies on is the presumption that the Cabin Fever labs were in the middle of the giant explosion and everyone inside survived. What's the issue? I've mentioned it in my final argument that actually.
It's very convenient how you kept the part about me quitting the argument and not the part where i argued aboud Cabin Fever labs. Funny. Real funny.

You ignore the arguments that I left out on my end.

Funny, real funny how you don’t ignore that I didn’t even list all arguments from my own side, me not mentioning one of yours is not some smoking gun point you can bring up and expect to change a thing.


I didn’t mention it because it was just yet more repetition of thebsame thing I had already established with the door and beanded pen arguments and while I said I was willing to repeat myself with some things, I’m not willing to repeat absolutely everything exact same thing: the exact same metal. Cabin Fever Labs is made out of metal so it survived the explosion and it could have logically dispersed some of the force upon it’s exit

You could argue that such would be an “assumption” but that argument would only work if the initial argument you are trying to counter was an uncertainty, which it isn’t. It takes a lot less to justify a feat when you know for sure what caused it. Furthermore if I really wanted to I could argue that Cabin Fever Labs actually is within the crater and that they were just already within the crater at that point in time given that the labs were implied to be near Camp Fever Labs which is far from Uzi’s colony.

Cabin fever labs aren't the ones where Nori was and were not the ones Nori imploded. Hell, for all we know the implosion could have been the big hole she left in the ground that we see in ep 5 that leads into the labs

Oh so Nori just so happened to create a different explosion for no reason in a different area right afterwards? The explosion happened before she got back to the colony, she escaped for the very sake of warning the colony about the Disassembly Drones Cyn was sending to Copper 9 to construct a corpse spire.

The statements are clear enough and anyone could put two and two together with how the Copper 9 explosion and this “different” implosion coincide with each other just perfectly timeline wise, especially when Nori is a Solver admin which are literally supposed to be puppets used to destroy their planet and she was even shown to be under it’s control at the time.

The labs are clearly shown not to be in the planet-deep crater from which the explosion happened, they were clearly near

Umm no? Cabin Fever Labs is naturally underground. Your entire argument falls apart if I just say “what if they were already in the crater and the hole went deeper” sure you could argue for assptioms, but given that I’ve already provided evidence for the feat itself and it’s the only thing that makes sense in the context of the very canon, I have Occam’s razor favoring my point.

The labs are clearly shown not to be in the planet-deep crater from which the explosion happened, they were clearly near the surface, at least relative to the big crater.

And when was that shown? I want an actual argument with evidence which you have yet to provide. Cabin Fever Labs is huge anyway, and could extend to other parts of the crater. I don’t care to argue these details but the fact of the matter is that the show makes it very clear that it was in fact caused by Nori and that the explosion was her method of escaping

This in turn means neither the labs nor the fellas inside it died to her tanked the explosion, debunking the entire scaling argument.

? Provide some concrete evidence like I have. Then we’ll talk, but for now you are just saying that it debunks my argument without the actual evidence to contradict anything cited

This also supports a previous argument I had with you, the fact that the recording of Nori escaping was present in the CF labs despite the explosion happening elsewhere.

“elsewhere” I don’t think you get how debating works. You need to be able to evidence your arguments as well and since I’ve already provided mine that means your counter arguments also need to have evidence.

The labs being the CF labs from which Nori escapes makes perfect sense now since it'd make perfect sense for cctv camera recordings of the labs to be present in the labs themselves, instead of them being recordings from a base that was deep in the crater and got wiped out and thus wouldn't sensibly have survived the explosion.

Did… did you just deny the canon? It was a CFL recording and the only places she has been in the series are the colony, Camp 98.7, and CFL. Her escape from CFL conveniently coinciding with a large planet level explosion that wipes out human life while she is literally under the control of an AI that wants to destroy the planet and Alice even mentions her “imploding those folks”, this is not subtle or subjectivity, it is blatant and objective.

 

[Arceus0x]

JCJenson products as a whole were stated to be incredibly durable and capable of harming MDs. That alone is enough to prove my point.

Need a source on that

A canon statement supporting me means it isn’t association fallacy.

It doesn't until you give the evidence that stuff beyond Drones and pens are made with that material.

Though it’s funny how you ran away in the debate and said you weren’t arguing but came back now. Clearly you can debate more and were just running to avoid me raising more counter arguments.

You ignore the arguments that I left out on my end.

I left because we would never reach a conclusion in PMs, we'd never concede to a specific

Funny, real funny how you don’t ignore that I didn’t even list all arguments from my own side, me not mentioning one of yours is not some smoking gun point you can bring up and expect to change a thing.

But it is a big point you didn't bring up. It's not my job not to bring up all your arguments, that is your deal. But not bringing up the bigger argument of mine to the table doesn't feel great.

I didn’t mention it because it was just yet more repetition of thebsame thing I had already established with the door and beanded pen arguments and while I said I was willing to repeat myself with some things, I’m not willing to repeat absolutely everything exact same thing: the exact same metal. Cabin Fever Labs is made out of metal so it survived the explosion and it could have logically dispersed some of the force upon it’s exit

Prove it, simple as that.

You could argue that such would be an “assumption” but that argument would only work if the initial argument you are trying to counter was an uncertainty, which it isn’t. It takes a lot less to justify a feat when you know for sure what caused it. Furthermore if I really wanted to I could argue that Cabin Fever Labs actually is within the crater and that they were just already within the crater at that point in time given that the labs were implied to be near Camp Fever Labs which is far from Uzi’s colony.

Then ARGUE THAT for goodness sake. Really there are some easy solutions to the arguments i bring up and instead you take the roundabout.

Oh so Nori just so happened to create a different explosion for no reason in a different area right afterwards? The explosion happened before she got back to the colony, she escaped for the very sake of warning the colony about the Disassembly Drones Cyn was sending to Copper 9 to construct a corpse spire.

She escaped the place and at some point did a similar feat of destruction as Cyn. We clearly see that the labs were banged up and had a lot of destruction and holes everywhere which is likely from where she escaped.

The statements are clear enough and anyone could put two and two together with how the Copper 9 explosion and this “different” implosion coincide with each other just perfectly timeline wise, especially when Nori is a Solver admin which are literally supposed to be puppets used to destroy their planet and she was even shown to be under it’s control at the time.

This isn't two and two when one place is in a different area, has a different look and it's own smaller craters and there's no few thousand mile deep crater around while there clearly is one in the place where the big explosion happened.

Umm no? Cabin Fever Labs is naturally underground. Your entire argument falls apart if I just say “what if they were already in the crater and the hole went deeper” sure you could argue for assptioms, but given that I’ve already provided evidence for the feat itself and it’s the only thing that makes sense in the context of the very canon, I have Occam’s razor favoring my point.

It's naturally underground uhhh so what lol? Where's the crater, this is the question. The whole point of your argument is, she caused an explosion and it imploded everyone and the labs survived and everyone else inside survived too. So why is the lab not in the middle of the crater? We do see the lab structure here. It's clearly not the crater, it's near the surface. Perhaps the deeper part is located near the center of the planet from which the explosion happened, but even then the explosion clearly moved in a different direction than the lab (and thus the giant crater) and didn't affect it or anyone inside.

And when was that shown? I want an actual argument with evidence which you have yet to provide. Cabin Fever Labs is huge anyway, and could extend to other parts of the crater. I don’t care to argue these details but the fact of the matter is that the show makes it very clear that it was in fact caused by Nori and that the explosion was her method of escaping

Ok, so another assumption that it is now, perhaps, in other parts of the crater, even though one, the lab isn't in the crater until more evidence is provided and it had a crater running through it and perhaps going deeper within. Someone clearly broke out of it because labs don't randomly get giant holes through them, but it is also clearly not the 6-B explosion but a smaller one. This means there's two explosions, both likely caused by Nori, but then we're left with the simple fact that either she escaped with a planet sized explosion and then randomly put a hole through CF labs later on, or the more reasonable assumption that she broke out, found a place with easy access to the core and blew it up separately.

? Provide some concrete evidence like I have. Then we’ll talk, but for now you are just saying that it debunks my argument without the actual evidence to contradict anything cited

“elsewhere” I don’t think you get how debating works. You need to be able to evidence your arguments as well and since I’ve already provided mine that means your counter arguments also need to have evidence.

Quit your snide please. This isn't reddit. Either way the evidence that the characters were located inside the labs that were near the surface was now provided in the argument above. They showed us a literal map. There's the area right below the surface of the planet, so, not near the planet's core.

Did… did you just deny the canon? It was a CFL recording and the only places she has been in the series are the colony, Camp 98.7, and CFL. Her escape from CFL conveniently coinciding with a large planet level explosion that wipes out human life while she is literally under the control of an AI that wants to destroy the planet and Alice even mentions her “imploding those folks”, this is not subtle or subjectivity, it is blatant and objective.

I'm not saying she didn't cause it, I am saying we don't know how exactly she did it and that it never destroyed the labs since the explosion expanded into a whole different area rather than the labs we see in ep 6.

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Need a source on that

.

It doesn't until you give the evidence that stuff beyond Drones and pens are made with that material.

J says “JCJenson products”, meaning it’s a statement about the products as a whole and not the pens. If you’d actually read what I’ve been saying then you’d know I pointed that distinction out

I left because we would never reach a conclusion in PMs, we'd never concede to a specific

You left because you didn’t like that I was arguing MD higher than you like. You literally said that if I argue for large planet level MD then you would leave. That’s called ducking.

But it is a big point you didn't bring up. It's not my job not to bring up all your arguments, that is your deal. But not bringing up the bigger argument of mine to the table doesn't feel great.

I can’t repeat literally everything. I was skimming through it and debunking all of your big arguments just in case you decided to show up despite running away in the debate. I’ve debunked the argument here now that you mentioned it anyway so you bringing it up in the first place to try and make me out to be withholding it has zero grounds. Besides, you yourself ignored every single argument that I’ve actually debunked in the discussion such as you claiming that Uzi somehow was holding back when she bit Tessa and you blatantly not reading the superhuman lifting strength feat I listed for Tessa. I need you to make up your mind.

Prove it, simple as that.

It’s made by JCJenson which explicitly use the same metal as MDs for products as basic as pens. Cabin Fever Labs is an important facility that explicitly contains these drones, therefore it would be the same metal as they have a clear wealth, their products are in fact stated to be extra durable to begin with, and that CFL is supposed to be properly secured for rogue drones in the first place.

Now I’ll ask you again. How about you prove your arguments for once. I’ve posted proof for numerous arguments via Imgur. I haven’t seen you post a shred of evidence(and yes, when one side has an argument backed by evidence andba logical explanation against your counter argument, you do need to give actual evidence for your arguments as well. Burden of proof isn’t the same fornthe person arguing something and the one arguing against something, but you aren’t using it at all.

Then ARGUE THAT for goodness sake. Really there are some easy solutions to the arguments i bring up and instead you take the roundabout.

My style is I debunk every aspect of an argument. Something that is very clearly working in of itself because in the end you can’t counter the blatant statements in the show, nor can you counter me debunking the feat being an “outlier”

But regardless it’s very clear that Cabin Fever Labs and Camp 98.7 are near by given the CFL S document under the floorboards of the cabin in there, the presence of the keybug, and a sentinel claw as well as a drawn picture of a sentinel under the floorboards as well.

It is at the very least a great distance from Uzi’s colony(given that they took a field trip there on the bus) in an unknown direction with it more likely heading towards the crater to begin with given that the Camp itself has some interesting geography such as the giant hill thatis just randomly in the camp, which possibly could suggest that it is also part of the rim of the crater.

She escaped the place and at some point did a similar feat of destruction as Cyn. We clearly see that the labs were banged up and had a lot of destruction and holes everywhere which is likely from where she escaped.

Yes, which perfectly evidences my point. She killed the humans off with an explosion and then escaped.(forgot to mention as well that there was a binary code in the background of a picture of Nori using the AS in ep 6 and that binary translates to [Null] as well, yet again proving that Nori created the explosion to escape via [Null], yet again large planet level.

This isn't two and two when one place is in a different area, has a different look and it's own smaller craters and there's no few thousand mile deep crater around while there clearly is one in the place where the big explosion happened.

You claim that it’s a different place despite the JCJenson employees staffing it very blatantly wearing the exact same uniforms as the “other” place’s employees, they also have a computer with the same warning.

It's naturally underground uhhh so what lol? Where's the crater, this is the question. The whole point of your argument is, she caused an explosion and it imploded everyone and the labs survived and everyone else inside survived too. So why is the lab not in the middle of the crater? We do see the lab structure here. It's clearly not the crater, it's near the surface. Perhaps the deeper part is located near the center of the planet from which the explosion happened, but even then the explosion clearly moved in a different direction than the lab (and thus the giant crater) and didn't affect it or anyone inside.

Wow, you finally post some evidence and yet this “evidence” means nothing. We obviously couldn’t see the crater if they were already within it. The map doesn’t confirm or deny such so using it as evidence also is pointless.

Ok, so another assumption that it is now, perhaps, in other parts of the crater, even though one, the lab isn't in the crater until more evidence is provided

Depends on context. More evidence is not needed(or really any evidence) in this case because I’ve already provided evidence for what happens, that means the burden of proof falls on you here.

and it had a crater running through it and perhaps going deeper within. Someone clearly broke out of it because labs don't randomly get giant holes through them, but it is also clearly not the 6-B explosion but a smaller one. This means there's two explosions, both likely caused by Nori, but then we're left with the simple fact that either she escaped with a planet sized explosion and then randomly put a hole through CF labs later on, or the more reasonable assumption that she broke out, found a place with easy access to the core and blew it up separately.

Actually that is not more logical. She wouldn’t be able to escape before the Sentinels were released to kill her if she didn’t create the large planet level explosion that killed the humans beforehand.

If anything the logical explanation would be that Nori created the explosion which killed all humans but the metal funneled it out and she absorbed some of it into a black hole(or cut through it with her light scythe ability shown in the same episode, or even just telekinetically tore the hole.

Quit your snide please. This isn't reddit.

The person who called my arguments wank in the first place has the gall to talk about being snide? Please be consistent.

Either way the evidence that the characters were located inside the labs that were near the surface was now provided in the argument above. They showed us a literal map. There's the area right below the surface of the planet, so, not near the planet's core.

They don’t show it in relation to the land around them. The map only shows the labs themselves and the secret elevator going deeper and deeper down(also J’s map isn’t exactly complete to begin with. Otherwise they would have known where the elevator was from the start.

I'm not saying she didn't cause it, I am saying we don't know how exactly she did it and that it never destroyed the labs since the explosion expanded into a whole different area rather than the labs we see in ep 6.

i’ll just repeat for the millionth time: my entire argument is that the MDs can tank such an explosion and are such level, that cannot be countered via CFL not being destroyed because the WDs being at such level would by default mean that the labs themselves are because by all means it is the same metal.

And we do know how she did it, there is nothing vague about it, she used the admin exclusive [Null] string of the AbsoluteSolver, the same one Cyn used to destroy Earth and that the GlitchX teasers imply Uzi will use to destroy Copper 9 while under the AS control. It is even the entire point of admins to begin with, they become more powerful but fall deeper under it’s control and are eventually made to destroy the planet they live on. Nori stopped(supposedly having escaped it’s control given that she went to warn Khan) before she destroyed the planet which is why Uzi is it’s next puppet.

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Since obviously everyone knows my opinion and that of the other Arceus, what do the rest of you think? @Ikelaggan @Livinmeme Do you agree with the arguments I’ve made, disagree, or are you neutral?

 

[Arceus0x]

.


J says “JCJenson products”, meaning it’s a statement about the products as a whole and not the pens. If you’d actually read what I’ve been saying then you’d know I pointed that distinction out

Strictly speaking walls aren't products. We don't know which materials they used in everything that isn't labeled JCJenson which so far has been the drones, raptors, seemingly space ships and pens ig

You left because you didn’t like that I was arguing MD higher than you like. You literally said that if I argue for large planet level MD then you would leave. That’s called ducking.

I mean you wouldn't back down no matter what, what's the point of writing entire novels of messages in DMs instead of talking about it in a proper CRT. You are in a CRT now, so I am here to argue back. Oh and 5-A MD is still BS.

I can’t repeat literally everything. I was skimming through it and debunking all of your big arguments just in case you decided to show up despite running away in the debate. I’ve debunked the argument here now that you mentioned it anyway so you bringing it up in the first place to try and make me out to be withholding it has zero grounds. Besides, you yourself ignored every single argument that I’ve actually debunked in the discussion such as you claiming that Uzi somehow was holding back when she bit Tessa and you blatantly not reading the superhuman lifting strength feat I listed for Tessa. I need you to make up your mind.

I seriously don't care since the entire CRT hinges on two unrelated points

It’s made by JCJenson which explicitly use the same metal as MDs for products as basic as pens. Cabin Fever Labs is an important facility that explicitly contains these drones, therefore it would be the same metal as they have a clear wealth, their products are in fact stated to be extra durable to begin with, and that CFL is supposed to be properly secured for rogue drones in the first place.

Nah, that i

Now I’ll ask you again. How about you prove your arguments for once. I’ve posted proof for numerous arguments via Imgur. I haven’t seen you post a shred of evidence(and yes, when one side has an argument backed by evidence andba logical explanation against your counter argument, you do need to give actual evidence for your arguments as well. Burden of proof isn’t the same fornthe person arguing something and the one arguing against something, but you aren’t using it at all.

You posted an image of a statement of the durability of JC products, problem being, there is no other support for the 5-A durability that I asked for. The entire thing with scaling every JC pen to 5-A hinges on this one explosion and 0 other supporting feats.

My style is I debunk every aspect of an argument. Something that is very clearly working in of itself because in the end you can’t counter the blatant statements in the show, nor can you counter me debunking the feat being an “outlier”

Which makes your arguments completely unreadable considering it's long as hell even though most of it could be cut down to a few short sentences.

But regardless it’s very clear that Cabin Fever Labs and Camp 98.7 are near by given the CFL S document under the floorboards of the cabin in there, the presence of the keybug, and a sentinel claw as well as a drawn picture of a sentinel under the floorboards as well.

Oh yeah can you send a scan of that? I don't really remember that.

It is at the very least a great distance from Uzi’s colony(given that they took a field trip there on the bus) in an unknown direction with it more likely heading towards the crater to begin with given that the Camp itself has some interesting geography such as the giant hill thatis just randomly in the camp, which possibly could suggest that it is also part of the rim of the crater.

The problem is, just because it is close doesn't make it immediately in it. I think this is a bit presumptious especially considering the crater, rather than being the average crater that goes down more slowly, is very deep and seems to be extremely steep.

Yes, which perfectly evidences my point. She killed the humans off with an explosion and then escaped.(forgot to mention as well that there was a binary code in the background of a picture of Nori using the AS in ep 6 and that binary translates to [Null] as well, yet again proving that Nori created the explosion to escape via [Null], yet again large planet level.

Then how do you explain the second explosion? There was an explosion that caused the mega crater and the explosion that caused the small crater that Doll escaped into in ep 6.

You claim that it’s a different place despite the JCJenson employees staffing it very blatantly wearing the exact same uniforms as the “other” place’s employees, they also have a computer with the same warning.

You can wear the same uniform if you have a sister location workplace.

Wow, you finally post some evidence and yet this “evidence” means nothing. We obviously couldn’t see the crater if they were already within it. The map doesn’t confirm or deny such so using it as evidence also is pointless.

We would see it, actually. The crater is a hole several thousands of miles deep and wide. If we were near it's rim we'd see the rim and if we were in the center we'd see the giant walls of rock surrounding the entire area (all the rims). Meanwhile we don't see them go down, we don't see them go deeper before they enter the small hole and we see no giant crater rims even though the crater is shown to be very deep

Depends on context. More evidence is not needed(or really any evidence) in this case because I’ve already provided evidence for what happens, that means the burden of proof falls on you here.

Except for the fact that they are definitely not in the crater because one, we don't see the hole to the core of the planet or the giant hole that would lead to it, two, we don't see the rims of the crater, we only see some mountains and some trees

Actually that is not more logical. She wouldn’t be able to escape before the Sentinels were released to kill her if she didn’t create the large planet level explosion that killed the humans beforehand.

Technically we see two holes going into the depths below the labs, one of which is connected to the giant hole we see on Js map. If she caused a big explosion that ripped through the lab and went down into the depths to blow up the core the it would make sense.

If anything the logical explanation would be that Nori created the explosion which killed all humans but the metal funneled it out and she absorbed some of it into a black hole(or cut through it with her light scythe ability shown in the same episode, or even just telekinetically tore the hole.

That requires a lot more logical leaps than causing a small explosion in the labs to get out, escaping to the core and then blowing that thing up

The person who called my arguments wank in the first place has the gall to talk about being snide? Please be consistent.

Calling out arguments and calling out people themselves are two different things

They don’t show it in relation to the land around them. The map only shows the labs themselves and the secret elevator going deeper and deeper down(also J’s map isn’t exactly complete to begin with. Otherwise they would have known where the elevator was from the start.

But we don't see anything beyond mountains and trees around this place. They are unaffected and fine, there's no proof that they were in the crater at any point.

i’ll just repeat for the millionth time: my entire argument is that the MDs can tank such an explosion and are such level, that cannot be countered via CFL not being destroyed because the WDs being at such level would by default mean that the labs themselves are because by all means it is the same metal.

Except i will also repeat for the millionth time that you are just basing it all on the assumption that JCJason uses the exact same metal for literally everything even though that isn't realistic even for real life companies. Just look at real life man, just because Nasa will use some of the strongest metal in the world for their spacecrafts doesn't mean they use it for literally everything they have.

And we do know how she did it, there is nothing vague about it, she used the admin exclusive [Null] string of the AbsoluteSolver, the same one Cyn used to destroy Earth and that the GlitchX teasers imply Uzi will use to destroy Copper 9 while under the AS control. It is even the entire point of admins to begin with, they become more powerful but fall deeper under it’s control and are eventually made to destroy the planet they live on. Nori stopped(supposedly having escaped it’s control given that she went to warn Khan) before she destroyed the planet which is why Uzi is it’s next puppet.

What exactly suggests she wouldn't use it to a limited extent to clear the way? Like can you provide proof that the string of code automatically causes the same type of destruction? Cause so far it seems to me that it doesn't since Cyn has destroyed earth with a giant black hole while Nori used an explosion.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Since obviously everyone knows my opinion and that of the other Arceus, what do the rest of you think? @Ikelaggan @Livinmeme Do you agree with the arguments I’ve made, disagree, or are you neutral?

I'm in agreement so far

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah. Consistent arguments are hard to come by lately. I didn’t intend to get involved with the tiering of MD characters on here but when someone showed me Arceus0x’s CRT I absolutely had to get involved.

Overall what is your opinion about my arguments here? Do you agree or disagree with them as a whole?

Yeah I agree

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Strictly speaking walls aren't products. We don't know which materials they used in everything that isn't labeled JCJenson which so far has been the drones, raptors, seemingly space ships and pens ig

If they used a different metal(since we’ve factually established that the pens and Workers are made out of a strong metal) then the Worker drones trapped would have been able to physically escape themselves and break holes in it.

Also yet again, you can’t dismiss it and say that it’s only some specific products, those aren’t the exceptions ti the rule, it is the rule that everything JCJenson makes is this durable.

I mean you wouldn't back down no matter what, what's the point of writing entire novels of messages in DMs instead of talking about it in a proper CRT. You are in a CRT now, so I am here to argue back. Oh and 5-A MD is still BS.

Cool, raise an actual proper counter argument if it is bs.

I seriously don't care since the entire CRT hinges on two unrelated points

My argument actually is substantiated by numerous things but whatever, keep saying that.

Nah, that i

Did you forget to complete this sentence? I can debunk your arguments all day, but only if you actually post them. An incomplete paragraph is not something I’m wasting my time on

You posted an image of a statement of the durability of JC products, problem being, there is no other support for the 5-A durability that I asked for. The entire thing with scaling every JC pen to 5-A hinges on this one explosion and 0 other supporting feats.

It doesn’t need any other statement because it’s already been established. They already are exploring plenty within these episodes, taking extra time to reiterate the same exact thing that was already established would be pointless.

You can’t name a single non supporting feat given that I’ve debunked every single anti feat you tried to use and every lower end calced feat that didn’t blatantly get the science wrong was only lifting strength anyway which has zero correlation. Cyn also destroyed Earth so that’s 2 large planet level feats compared to a grand total of zero non debunked anti feats.

Which makes your arguments completely unreadable considering it's long as hell even though most of it could be cut down to a few short sentences.

Spoiler alert, the less detailed an argument is the less trustworthy it is. An argument that isn’t founded on a basis of objectively looking through every detail and putting all evidence together is a bad argument. Especially in a show that emphasizes every little detail and foreshadows major plot points in background text.

Oh yeah can you send a scan of that? I don't really remember that.

this is from episode 4 Cabin Fever while Uzi is in the giant cabin right after V scratches her and before she leaves to show the keybug to N(speaking of which she got the keybug because it was on that document)

The problem is, just because it is close doesn't make it immediately in it. I think this is a bit presumptious especially considering the crater, rather than being the average crater that goes down more slowly, is very deep and seems to be extremely steep.

You could argue that it’s a presumption, but given the very clear concrete roots of my argument and the context of the series, it’s still favored by Occam’s razor here whereas you have equally presumptuous arguments(even more presumptuous in some cases) without such backing.

Then how do you explain the second explosion? There was an explosion that caused the mega crater and the explosion that caused the small crater that Doll escaped into in ep 6.

You mean the hole in the CFL roof? We already established that explosions cause implosions. If anything we could just say that the resulting implosion blasted that hole in it, however that isn’t even needed because regardless it is another presumption that an explosion caused the hole there, which is once again without the same evidence that mine have.

You can wear the same uniform if you have a sister location workplace.

The exact same hazmat suits that demonstrably nobody else on the planet wears? Not even Tessa wears that, she wears an astronaut suit.

We would see it, actually. The crater is a hole several thousands of miles deep and wide. If we were near it's rim we'd see the rim and if we were in the center we'd see the giant walls of rock surrounding the entire area (all the rims).

Not exactly. Someone’s ability to see things reaching above them at a distance is very inconsistent. If you were at the center of such a giant crater you certainly wouldn’t be able to see to the other sides and you at the very least are unlikely to be able to see the rim at the center given that someone’s ability to see something above them at greater distances isn’t very consistent. Especially in a perspective based situation like that. The image was zoomed in and due to being at the base of the hole in the roof their POV due to being so close would make the building block the rim from their perspective anyway.

Meanwhile we don't see them go down, we don't see them go deeper before they enter the small hole and we see no giant crater rims even though the crater is shown to be very deep

There has been a nuclear Winter for a while, it could easily have been covered up in snow, or they could already be in the crater when they meet up and it’s just been filled with snow, whether we go by presumptions or factual lore statements and details, both sides favor my argument.

Except for the fact that they are definitely not in the crater because one, we don't see the hole to the core of the planet or the giant hole that would lead to it, two, we don't see the rims of the crater, we only see some mountains and some trees

I think you are still making the mistake of believing that the “planet core collapse” is actually that, but it isn’t. It was just more redirection, just like episode 1 also led us to believe that JCJenson created and sent the MDs when that was actually Cyn. The explosion had nothing to do with the core, that’s what the readings said, but the explosion had nothing to due with the core given that we see in an episode 4 N flashback(when he touched the Zombie Drone VHS) that when Cyn used [Null] to destroy Earth it started in the air.

Technically we see two holes going into the depths below the labs, one of which is connected to the giant hole we see on Js map. If she caused a big explosion that ripped through the lab and went down into the depths to blow up the core the it would make sense.

Not really. [Null] wasn’t used that way when Cyn destroyed Earth and Nori was under the AS’ control just like she was. The only difference was that Nori managed to resist destroying the planet and only killed all humans, her going to the core would make no sense, it would just be extra steps.

Also how the **** would she even get down there? Heat kills her. She’s a Zombie Drone, she would overheat before she even got close to the core.

That requires a lot more logical leaps than causing a small explosion in the labs to get out, escaping to the core and then blowing that thing up

How is it anymore logical to say that she created a second explosion and that she went all the way into the core to do the exact same thing anyway rather than the explosion that she used to kill the humans and escape being set off within the labs(the humans would have activsted the Sentinels if she didn’t kill them before she left in the first place and she’d have no need to go to the core to do the exact same thing) and the hole in the roof just being from a [Null] blackhole which we know is a go-to ability for admins while under the AS’ control and that they show in episode 6 can be used in that exact way when Uzi uses it under the control of the AS and it eats through the metal wall and even turns it into fleshy organic matter.

Calling out arguments and calling out people themselves are two different things

If I called your arguments stupid, biased, or anything worse then you’d be irritated, don’t act like it is any better.

But we don't see anything beyond mountains and trees around this place. They are unaffected and fine, there's no proof that they were in the crater at any point.

Mountains/hills(really more just hills) could always be a result of some uneven destruction within the crater, as for the trees the most likely situation is that they were spread from a good bit away and grew there, but they actually aren’t even fine, these trees very clearly died from the nuclear winter as Solver Uzi perches on one of those trees in ep 4 and they immediately snap which would only happen if they were already dead.

Except i will also repeat for the millionth time that you are just basing it all on the assumption that JCJason uses the exact same metal for literally everything even though that isn't realistic even for real life companies. Just look at real life man, just because Nasa will use some of the strongest metal in the world for their spacecrafts doesn't mean they use it for literally everything they have.

But JCJenson very blatantly does. J didn’t state “Damn the well made quality assured durability of JCJenson pens” she said “Damn the well made quality assured durability of JCJenson products”, so it is very blatantly a universally true detail for things they make, and it wouldn’t make any sense for them to try to contain the drones in a facility made out of a weaker metal than the drones themselves are made out of, otherwise a normal WD could escape and a non admin Solver user like Yeva could have easily escaped on their own even before Nori did anything.

What exactly suggests she wouldn't use it to a limited extent to clear the way? Like can you provide proof that the string of code automatically causes the same type of destruction? Cause so far it seems to me that it doesn't since Cyn has destroyed earth with a giant black hole while Nori used an explosion.

The application is different but both were with the intent to destroy the planet, Nori just managed to break free of control and only kill the humans rather than properly destroying the planet. We blatantly see that the AS took control of Nori right before she escaped and the only way that this all logically makes sense in the timeline is if she did the explosion to kill everyone, exited CFL, and went straight to the colony. If you want to argue that she’d be able to use a weaker version and that she specifically would use that weaker version rather than the real one for no reason just to later on use the exact same one full power(that’s an SSJ4 level presumption that Goku would be afraid of) just because [Null] has multiple abilities then you’d also need to subject your own arguments to that same scrutiny because you can’t prove that Nori’s method involves approaching the core at all(which wasn’t the case for Cyn and would kill Nori)

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

I'm in agreement so far

Alright so with you and…

Yeah I agree

You, together that means two in agreement and one person who disagrees.(and one person who ain’t readin’ allat a bit above). I admit I’m new to actually making CRTs because I’m lazy, how many people need to agree before it can added again?(i should probably reread but I gotta spend some being lazy)

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Alright so with you and…

You, together that means two in agreement and one person who disagrees.(and one person who ain’t readin’ allat a bit above). I admit I’m new to actually making CRTs because I’m lazy, how many people need to agree before it can added again?(i should probably reread but I gotta spend some being lazy)

blue names (non staff) have no rights, you have to seek the approval of the colored ones (threadmods, admins)

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

blue names (non staff) have no rights, you have to seek the approval of the colored ones (threadmods, admins)

Oh alright. Can these staff members be pinged or do I just have to hope that I luck out and one sees this?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Oh alright. Can these staff members be pinged or do I just have to hope that I luck out and one sees this?

you can contact them on their walls

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

you can contact them on their walls

Alright, thanks for all the help man(also even if non staff don’t influence what gets accepted, would you like to share your opinions or thoughts here?)

 

[InfiniteDay]

Just to be clear, this is supposed to confirm that Murder Drones is 6-B?

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Just to be clear, this is supposed to confirm that Murder Drones is 6-B?

Not exactly. That’s the bare minimum I’m arguing. For reasons I stated I’m also arguing for the original large planet level keys to be put in place again, but yeah, this is about proving that at the very least they do reach 6B(with proving 5-A to be valid again being my true main argument)

 

[InfiniteDay]

Not exactly. That’s the bare minimum I’m arguing. For reasons I stated I’m also arguing for the original large planet level keys to be put in place again, but yeah, this is about proving that at the very least they do reach 6B(with proving 5-A to be valid again being my true main argument)

Going to have to disagree with that if you're arguing the drones anywhere above tier 8-9. Having watched the series, I haven't seen any evidence even close to 5-A, except for Earth being destroyed by unknown means.

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Going to have to disagree with that if you're arguing the drones anywhere above tier 8-9. Having watched the series, I haven't seen any evidence even close to 5-A, except for Earth being destroyed by unknown means.

You haven’t seen Psychomaster’s old calc of the explosion in ep 1? It was calced at six ronnatons before being downgraded to country due to lack of evidence that anyone was close enough to the explosion(which is why I’m arguing to restore 5-A, there is now proper evidence)

 

[MrCricket8464]

Alright so with you and…

You, together that means two in agreement and one person who disagrees.(and one person who ain’t readin’ allat a bit above). I admit I’m new to actually making CRTs because I’m lazy, how many people need to agree before it can added again?(i should probably reread but I gotta spend some being lazy)

I'd also like to agree.

 

[InfiniteDay]

You haven’t seen Psychomaster’s old calc of the explosion in ep 1? It was calced at six ronnatons before being downgraded to country due to lack of evidence that anyone was close enough to the explosion(which is why I’m arguing to restore 5-A, there is now proper evidence)

Not only is this a massive outlier, I'm more inclined to Arceus's evidence than what you have presented, so I'm still disagreeing.

 

[Livinmeme]

Not only is this a massive outlier, I'm more inclined to Arceus's evidence than what you have presented, so I'm still disagreeing.

You don't know what an outlier is

 

[InfiniteDay]

You don't know what an outlier is

Insulting my knowledge doesn't help convince me you're right

 

[DanTheEyeMan01]

This is a pretty big leap.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Not only is this a massive outlier, I'm more inclined to Arceus's evidence than what you have presented, so I'm still disagreeing.

My question is "What outlier?" Cause nothing in Arceus's evidence just can't be upscaled to the planetary explosion since he still failed to debunk the environment let alone the MDs scale in any fashion to the planetary explosion in terms of durability.

 

[Arceus0x]

I've gotten sick so I will reply tomorrow.

Once I reply I think I'll just stop talking and let mods share their opinions. I'll just clarify stuff if they need any clarification.

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Not only is this a massive outlier, I'm more inclined to Arceus's evidence than what you have presented, so I'm still disagreeing.

But how is it an outlier when the only set in stone fully quantifiable AP feats(which I’ve proven basic Workers scale to) are this level. Something can only be an outlier if there is a more significant amount of lower feats by comparison which I have proven is not the case here(ignoring lifting strength feats because those have nothing to do with AP, DC, striking strength, or durability.)

 

[Livinmeme]

Insulting my knowledge doesn't help convince me you're right

Outlier refers to a feat, contradacting another feat (A guy blowing a mountain with his pinky, then running like a coward against an elephant). This is just ONE (1) (UNO) feat, being far above the rest, without being contradicted

 

[InfiniteDay]

Outlier refers to a feat, contradacting another feat (A guy blowing a mountain with his pinky, then running like a coward against an elephant). This is just ONE (1) (UNO) feat, being far above the rest, without being contradicted

...you've got to be joking. This one feat is so beyond ridiculously above anything else in the series sans the Earth being destroyed by unknown means that's it's not even funny. You also just admitted there is only 1 feat to provide evidence, when everything in the series contradicts anybody being even close to 5-A.

Let's put it this way: Even if Nori was at the explosion's source, which I highly doubt, they wouldn't be taking the full-brunt of the explosion due to inverse-square law, so she can't be 5-A.

Edit: I don't feel like responding anymore, so I'd recommend getting some mods to evaluate this.

 

[Livinmeme]

...you've got to be joking. This one feat is so beyond ridiculously above anything else in the series sans the Earth being destroyed by unknown means that's it's not even funny. You also just admitted there is only 1 feat to provide evidence, when everything in the series contradicts anybody being even close to 5-A.

Let's put it this way: Even if Nori was at the explosion's source, which I highly doubt, they wouldn't be taking the full-brunt of the explosion due to inverse-square law, so she can't be 5-A.

Not an outlier, LITERALLY, it doesn't fit with the definition of one...

 

[Livinmeme]

You also just admitted there is only 1 feat to provide evidence, when everything in the series contradicts anybody being even close to 5-A.

Megaman (classic atleast)...They are basically the same

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

...you've got to be joking. This one feat is so beyond ridiculously above anything else in the series sans the Earth being destroyed by unknown means that's it's not even funny.

The Earth wasn’t destroyed by “unknown means” we blatantly get a flashback to Cyn destroying the Earth with the [Null] string in episode 4 before Cyn even gets mentioned, we just never fully saw the destruction until ep 6. Also two feats, Nori’s Copper 9 explosion and Cyn destroying Earth. Name a single anti feat that I haven’t debunked and I’ll debunk it as wel.

You also just admitted there is only 1 feat to provide evidence, when everything in the series contradicts anybody being even close to 5-A.

Nothing contradicts it. Name a single anti feat that I myself haven’t already debunked. It feels like you know you are wrong when I already asked this and you skipped straight to respond to Livinmeme(who responded after I did) without addressing what I said.

Let's put it this way: Even if Nori was at the explosion's source, which I highly doubt, they wouldn't be taking the full-brunt of the explosion due to inverse-square law, so she can't be 5-A.

… it’s confirmed. You literally didn’t read the CRT at all. I literally proved that not only were even mormal Worker Drones within the blast radius, but that Nori herself created the explosion.

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Bump

 

[Arceus0x]

If they used a different metal(since we’ve factually established that the pens and Workers are made out of a strong metal) then the Worker drones trapped would have been able to physically escape themselves and break holes in it.

Also yet again, you can’t dismiss it and say that it’s only some specific products, those aren’t the exceptions ti the rule, it is the rule that everything JCJenson makes is this durable.

Even if it is the rule that stuff JCJenson makes is durable doesn't mean that the walls are made by them without proof. All of the scaling comes from one feat and there's nothing that supports it beyond that, thus causing ridiculous stuff like 5-A pens. This essentially causes circular scaling since you try to explain away the anti-feat of MDs not breaking through walls by saying that it all backscales to them, when that isn't the case.

Cool, raise an actual proper counter argument if it is bs.

I am

My argument actually is substantiated by numerous things but whatever, keep saying that.

Sure

Did you forget to complete this sentence? I can debunk your arguments all day, but only if you actually post them. An incomplete paragraph is not something I’m wasting my time on

You could've just ignored it but ig being toxic about it was a better option for you

It doesn’t need any other statement because it’s already been established. They already are exploring plenty within these episodes, taking extra time to reiterate the same exact thing that was already established would be pointless.

You can’t name a single non supporting feat given that I’ve debunked every single anti feat you tried to use and every lower end calced feat that didn’t blatantly get the science wrong was only lifting strength anyway which has zero correlation. Cyn also destroyed Earth so that’s 2 large planet level feats compared to a grand total of zero non debunked anti feats.

you relied on what I mentioned above for every anti-feat except for the Uzi gun thing on which I concede since it is a weird feat. Otherwise every counterfeat is basically "oh they are 5-A to cause JCJensons" despite having no evidence beyond assumptions that they make literally everything.

Spoiler alert, the less detailed an argument is the less trustworthy it is. An argument that isn’t founded on a basis of objectively looking through every detail and putting all evidence together is a bad argument. Especially in a show that emphasizes every little detail and foreshadows major plot points in background text.

Being long and being detailed aren't mutually inclusive. You can make a proper argument with good details with a far better structure without relying on walls of text. You also seriously misunderstand how this site works. People often skim through arguments if there's too much text which ends up causing FRA trains and bad judgements. It is a thing that happens with smaller verses. It's also why some CRTs end up dying. If you were writing a proper paper or a thesis on something I'd agree with you wholeheartedly but here we're making arguments for others to judge on a verse with barely any supporters who care enough to comment on the matter.

this is from episode 4 Cabin Fever while Uzi is in the giant cabin right after V scratches her and before she leaves to show the keybug to N(speaking of which she got the keybug because it was on that document)

That doesn't really prove that they are near each other though. This proves they are related but unless they're literally connected there's no reason to believe that this proves they are near each other.

You could argue that it’s a presumption, but given the very clear concrete roots of my argument and the context of the series, it’s still favored by Occam’s razor here whereas you have equally presumptuous arguments(even more presumptuous in some cases) without such backing.

I can and I will argue that it is far more presumptious. 5-A bots already relies on a feat we have never gotten clarifications for (which could very likely come out in the next episodes which is why I proposed waiting, though Ig that isn't something y'all like) and here we add another assumption which relies on even further assumptions. I cannot agree with that.

You mean the hole in the CFL roof? We already established that explosions cause implosions. If anything we could just say that the resulting implosion blasted that hole in it, however that isn’t even needed because regardless it is another presumption that an explosion caused the hole there, which is once again without the same evidence that mine have.

but then we have a random undexplained hole. If the implosion caused it it would've blasted right through the entire building since it could blast through parts of it like its nothing. This also ruins the whole idea that the building is 5-A since it wouldn't make sense that parts of it would get disintegrated into nothing while the rest just magically survived, even though the explosion covered thousands of miles

The exact same hazmat suits that demonstrably nobody else on the planet wears? Not even Tessa wears that, she wears an astronaut suit.

Ok and? Just because a mcdonalds employee wears the same suit in US and UK doesn't make them come from the same place lol.

Not exactly. Someone’s ability to see things reaching above them at a distance is very inconsistent. If you were at the center of such a giant crater you certainly wouldn’t be able to see to the other sides and you at the very least are unlikely to be able to see the rim at the center given that someone’s ability to see something above them at greater distances isn’t very consistent. Especially in a perspective based situation like that. The image was zoomed in and due to being at the base of the hole in the roof their POV due to being so close would make the building block the rim from their perspective anyway.

Actually you would see them very much. Your argument would make sense if we were on the surface, but we're not. On the surface we can't see faraway mountains due to curvature, but here the curvature not only doesn't exist but also isn't nearly big enough to make the rims invisible.

As you can see you need to be pretty much near the surface or on the level of the mantle to not see the rims and that is if we assume there is some curvature.
Without curvature there'd be even less of a chance to not see the rims since you would either be right next to the rims or at the very bottom of the hole with the holes extending forward.

There has been a nuclear Winter for a while, it could easily have been covered up in snow, or they could already be in the crater when they meet up and it’s just been filled with snow, whether we go by presumptions or factual lore statements and details, both sides favor my argument.

Please understand that if we took every ocean on earth and placed it into the hole in the planet it would probably not fill it up even close to half way. Copper 9 has no confirmation of being filled with water more than earth and so even the strongest snow storms would take ages to fill up the hole to the extent that you're suggesting. Also, yet again, it is a big assumption and no, i very much disagree on it being in your favor.

I think you are still making the mistake of believing that the “planet core collapse” is actually that, but it isn’t. It was just more redirection, just like episode 1 also led us to believe that JCJenson created and sent the MDs when that was actually Cyn. The explosion had nothing to do with the core, that’s what the readings said, but the explosion had nothing to due with the core given that we see in an episode 4 N flashback(when he touched the Zombie Drone VHS) that when Cyn used [Null] to destroy Earth it started in the air.

Not really. [Null] wasn’t used that way when Cyn destroyed Earth and Nori was under the AS’ control just like she was. The only difference was that Nori managed to resist destroying the planet and only killed all humans, her going to the core would make no sense, it would just be extra steps.

If it had nothing to do with the core then the core wouldn't be snuffed out and the planet wouldn't have been frozen over. Additionally a good amount of reason why humans died off is because the explosion caused the destabilization of the planet's atmosphere which caused a global ice age.
I understand that Nori was the one who caused everything but it also doesn't make sense how she destroyed it. This would also conflict with your argument that the lab is at the bottom of the crater since the bottom of the crater is at the core.

Also how the **** would she even get down there? Heat kills her. She’s a Zombie Drone, she would overheat before she even got close to the core.

Oh so NOW they are weak heat-unresistant bots who would die to the earth's core? This conflicts with your assumption that they survived the explosion since on average TNT explosions can reach temperatures of 3500 Kelvin which is more than enough to melt through even titanium. Here we have an explosion big enough to pulverize the moon. It might not reach temperatures of 100 million C like it does in Nuclear Explosions but it would reach high temperatures none the less and being even near it would cause heavy damage to metal. If Nori isn't heatproof enough to go to the planet core then she isn't heatproof enough to take a blast of that size.

How is it anymore logical to say that she created a second explosion and that she went all the way into the core to do the exact same thing anyway rather than the explosion that she used to kill the humans and escape being set off within the labs(the humans would have activsted the Sentinels if she didn’t kill them before she left in the first place and she’d have no need to go to the core to do the exact same thing) and the hole in the roof just being from a [Null] blackhole which we know is a go-to ability for admins while under the AS’ control and that they show in episode 6 can be used in that exact way when Uzi uses it under the control of the AS and it eats through the metal wall and even turns it into fleshy organic matter.

If I called your arguments stupid, biased, or anything worse then you’d be irritated, don’t act like it is any better.

It is better. If you called my arguments that then I'd be irritated but I wouldn't go and insult you personally. If you insulted me directly enough times I'd report you to the rule violations report thread and you'd get a warning for unnecessary rudenesss. A smart person can make a stupid argument and calling the argument stupid doesn't mean that the person is stupid. Calling a person stupid though is a direct insult.

Mountains/hills(really more just hills) could always be a result of some uneven destruction within the crater, as for the trees the most likely situation is that they were spread from a good bit away and grew there, but they actually aren’t even fine, these trees very clearly died from the nuclear winter as Solver Uzi perches on one of those trees in ep 4 and they immediately snap which would only happen if they were already dead.

we don't actually see the trees being dead btw. I never adressed that argument since it was irrelevant before but i think the perching part is more of a show of her physical strength rather a show of them being dead. When trees die they always drop their leaves and if they don't at first then they will with any touch. These trees we see both near the labs and in the forest are very clearly full of their needles and leaves and are very much fine. This might be anecdotal evidence but last year we got a live christmas tree and put it up. By the end of winter it fully died and it would lose its needles at the tap of a finger, which made it a pain in the ass to remove it from the apartment without covering it in needles. The trees on this planet are under constant snowstorms and high winds which would've blown any dead leaves and needles away and yet they don't, which means they're still alive somehow. Also even if they are dead, being that close to the explosion that caused a crater of that size would have them vaporized. You are just assuming things to be something that they aren't shown to be so that it fits the narrative you're building even though it's not it.

But JCJenson very blatantly does. J didn’t state “Damn the well made quality assured durability of JCJenson pens” she said “Damn the well made quality assured durability of JCJenson products”, so it is very blatantly a universally true detail for things they make, and it wouldn’t make any sense for them to try to contain the drones in a facility made out of a weaker metal than the drones themselves are made out of, otherwise a normal WD could escape and a non admin Solver user like Yeva could have easily escaped on their own even before Nori did anything.

not everything they make, the products they make. Even then the durability can vary. This is proven by the fact that a pen could pierce J's face monitor even though both are made by JCJenson. In short to prove that it is that durable you'd also need to prove that they were indeed made with the fines quality material that JCJenson have and that they are just as durable and more durable than the Murder Drones, though that kinda falls apart if we consider Nori pulverizing a hole in the labs but not getting pulverized herself according to your arguments.

The application is different but both were with the intent to destroy the planet, Nori just managed to break free of control and only kill the humans rather than properly destroying the planet. We blatantly see that the AS took control of Nori right before she escaped and the only way that this all logically makes sense in the timeline is if she did the explosion to kill everyone, exited CFL, and went straight to the colony. If you want to argue that she’d be able to use a weaker version and that she specifically would use that weaker version rather than the real one for no reason just to later on use the exact same one full power(that’s an SSJ4 level presumption that Goku would be afraid of) just because [Null] has multiple abilities then you’d also need to subject your own arguments to that same scrutiny because you can’t prove that Nori’s method involves approaching the core at all(which wasn’t the case for Cyn and would kill Nori)

She didn't just kill the humans. She caused an explosion which set off not only a shockwave but also an enviromental collapse which is why humans died off while non-biological drones were able to live.
I can prove the explosion was at the core with the simple fact that the ground zero was clearly there. If she were to create that level of an explosion on the surface the crater wouldn't be so rugged since the explosion would equally affect all sides without any unequal interferance and it would also be flatter. Additionally we see the rugged area around the crater, pieces of the land essentially moving upwards due to the force moving upwards from the bottom. We have an explosion that reaches the core of the earth, we have rugged terrain moving upwards with the explosion, we have the video with the explosion coming from inside the planet and we have the fact that the core was snuffed out and that's why everything is so cold and humans died off.
Nori caused the explosion in the lab to escape, then left to the place which is directly connected to the core and there she caused an explosion. Option 2 is her creating what is essentially an escape path for herself so she can get out after she sets of the explosion. You are heavily relying on the assumption that the lab is at the bottom of the crater for my argument not to work.