Mundus vs Mundus (DMC vs ABF)

[Robo432343]

Ergo Mundus

Tier: 2-C Name: Ergo Mundus. The Ultimate Monster. Dark Messiah Origin: Anima: Beyond Fantasy Gender: Male Age: Over 438 years old Classification: Unknown. Messenger Powers and Abilities: Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (One of the strongest Messengers. Strongest active being in Gaia for...

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vs

Mundus (Devil May Cry)

So sad that humans will always be humans, no more. Has the Sparda blood been spoiled over the ages?Mundus to Dante Mundus (Lat: "world") is the primary antagonist of the first Devil May Cry. According to legend, Mundus was a demon prince who consumed the fruit of the sacred tree Qliphoth in...

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SBA
Speed Equal

 

[Tanin_iver]

Mundus stomps Mundus

 

[Ang4I00]

What's Ergos starting move?

 

[Antoniofer]

Ergo do not have an starting move per ser. Arrogant as he is, he would start taking it easy and not making use of most of his abilities until the battle heats up, most likely limiting to physical and basic magic attacks before that point.

 

[Robo432343]

i heard all of Ergo's abilities negates resistances

 

[Antoniofer]

The elemental ones if any, granted his opponent have less Gnosis than him. Although, he has an spell that can decrease the resistances of people using the Destroy Resistance spell.

Gotta remember a bunch of stuff for Ergo, aside from the absorbed powers from other entities, he has access to 217 different spells.

 

[Robo432343]

i think mundus wins

 

[Ang4I00]

Ergo do not have an starting move per ser. Arrogant as he is, he would start taking it easy and not making use of most of his abilities until the battle heats up, most likely limiting to physical and basic magic attacks before that point.

Does he have layered resistances? And are his resistances all 4D?
Because Void Mundus has a shit ton of passives

 

[Robo432343]

Does he have layered resistances? And are his resistances all 4D?
Because Void Mundus has a shit ton of passives

magic in the verse is 4D

 

[Ang4I00]

magic in the verse is 4D
and anima resistances are accepted to be 16 for magic

Then this is a stomp, unless Ergo doesn't resist some of passive stuff, which I doubt judging by his resistances tabber

 

[Ang4I00]

Ig Mundus can use madness type 3, since I don't see resistance to it on Ergos profile

 

[Robo432343]

Then this is a stomp, unless Ergo doesn't resist some of passive stuff, which I doubt judging by his resistances tabber

the 16 might not apply for ergo so idk

 

[Robo432343]

Ig Mundus can use madness type 3, since I don't see resistance to it on Ergos profile

layered passive fate and probability hax might prevent the madness hax from working

also madness is resisted

Anima-Beyond Fantasy Resistances Compilations

This explanation page has the purpose to name most (not all, there's next to no limit) of the possible resistances that character (PC or NPC) from the tabletop RPG Anima: Beyond Fantasy. Take into account that this is not about the character, but various characters of the series, who can resist...

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[Ang4I00]

layered passive fate and probability hax might prevent the madness hax from working

also madness is resisted

Anima-Beyond Fantasy Resistances Compilations

This explanation page has the purpose to name most (not all, there's next to no limit) of the possible resistances that character (PC or NPC) from the tabletop RPG Anima: Beyond Fantasy. Take into account that this is not about the character, but various characters of the series, who can resist...

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It's not Type 3 tho? Can't even see what Type is it judging by the page
It sounds more like Type 2

 

[Ang4I00]

layered passive fate and probability hax might prevent the madness hax from working

Also, how does it work exactly?

 

[Robo432343]

It's not Type 3 tho? Can't even see what Type is it judging by the page
It sounds more like Type 2

yeah its probably type 2 but does it really matter what type it is? its still madness hax which is resisted

it says on the type 3 page, "physical forms are similarly complex or extreme in nature are likely to be unaffected by exposure to such a being."

Mundus has a similar and complex form to Mundus lol

 

[Ang4I00]

yeah its probably type 2

but it says on the type 3 page, "physical forms are similarly complex or extreme in nature are likely to be unaffected by exposure to such a being."

Mundus has a similar and complex form to Mundus

And how exactly is it similar?

 

[Robo432343]

And how exactly is it similar?

they both have a true form

but i don't think madness type 3 would really do anything because the effects are still the same

 

[Ang4I00]

they both have a true form

So? That quote was more so in reference to beings that have Madness Type 3 too due to complexity of their form, and this is Void Mundus, who exists as an empty void and nexus of DW energy

but i don't think madness type 3 would really do anything because the effects are still the same

If you don't resist Type 3, you don't resist Type 3, doesn't matter if effects are similar to Type 2, by that logic characters with resistance to Fate Manip could resist most of the Plot Haxes, which is just wrong
I vote Mundus for now due to Madness Hax which makes Ergo end himself

 

[Robo432343]

So? That quote was more so in reference to beings that have Madness Type 3 too due to complexity of their form, and this is Void Mundus, who exists as an empty void and nexus of DW energy

yes

If you don't resist Type 3, you don't resist Type 3, doesn't matter if effects are similar to Type 2, by that logic characters with resistance to Fate Manip could resist most of the Plot Haxes, which is just wrong

No. fate manip and plot hax are completely different to madness types, you can't just compare haxes that are completely different from each other using my logic
also fate manip and plot hax doesn't have types so wtf is the point in making that comparison?
Mundus's effects of madness type 3 is causing despair, fear and insanity. These are effects mundus already resists

also probability and fate hax would prevent the chances of madness even happening, not sure how it works but as long as its passive its fine

 

[Ang4I00]

No. fate manip and plot hax are completely different to madness types, you can't just compare haxes that are completely different from each other using my logic
also fate manip and plot hax doesn't have types so wtf is the point in making that comparison?
Mundus's effects of madness type 3 is causing despair, fear and insanity. These are effects mundus already resists

Okay, lets takes Fate Manip vs Causality Manip/Probability Manip, which are types of Fate Manip. You don't resist Causality Manip/Probability Manip just by resisting some Fat Manip and vice versa. Madness Type 2 is based on directly affecting ones mind, while Type 3 is Self-Cognition, these are vastly different things. Having same effects literally doesn't matter at all, like If I kill someone that doesn't mean I have Death Manipulation, even if it has the same effect, that's just plainly wrong.

also probability and fate hax would prevent the chances of madness even happening, not sure how it works but as long as its passive its fine

We can't just assume its a win condition if we don't know how it works, its better to call someone knowledgable on Ergo and the verse

 

[Robo432343]

Okay, lets takes Fate Manip vs Causality Manip/Probability Manip, which are types of Fate Manip. You don't resist Causality Manip/Probability Manip just by resisting some Fat Manip and vice versa.

bro i disagree with this
if i resist fate manipulation then im definitely bypassing probability. fate encompasses probability

Madness Type 2 is based on directly affecting ones mind, while Type 3 is Self-Cognition, these are vastly different things. Having same effects literally doesn't matter at all, like If I kill someone that doesn't mean I have Death Manipulation, even if it has the same effect, that's just plainly wrong.

what the fk is this example bro. you are using death manipulation effects and madness effects as a comparison. and i know you killing something doesn't mean you have death manip, its a case by case basis.
why are we even talking about madness type 2 in the first place? we don't even know if the madness hax Mundus resist is madness type 1, 2 or 3
the madness type 3 DMC mundus has causes despair, fear and insanity
ABF mundus resist despair, fear and insanity. its as simple as that

We can't just assume its a win condition if we don't know how it works, its better to call someone knowledgable on Ergo and the verse

i never said its a win condition
i just said it would stop the madness hax from happening

 

[Antoniofer]

also probability and fate hax would prevent the chances of madness even happening, not sure how it works but as long as its passive its fine

I believe you are refering to the Auspice power, right? Auspice does not interact with Resistance checks, what it does it is making the user succeed in every skill check as long: a) it does not involve knowledge, b) the difficult to meet is not Inhuman or Zen, and c) is not opposed to another action. In case its an opposed action (that also involves combat), the user will receive a bonus to every action against its target, depending of the Gnosis difference between both fighters.

Now, I don't have much to say about the entire madness thing debating; personally I think madness is madness, a mental induced, regardless of the method used. Although, depending of the nature of the power itself then a different resistance may be used: as a mental inducement, the Psychic Resistance (PsR) is the one used, but is also possible that Magic Resistance (MR) and Physical Resistance (PhR) can be used as well. For example, Dementia (as well as few others entities without sheets, like the ginnungaus) madness inducement is a MR check, so mental fortitude has no room in this as it depends more of the Presence and Soul of the affected one. Meanwhile, Zemial's Blood of Insanity uses Venom Resistance (VR) to avoid its effects, so neither the soul or willpower are relevant here.

As for Ergo's layers, just as we agreed in the Layer thread, every +5 above 20 is a layer, and Ergo has a PhR, MR and PsR equal to 140, 160 and 140, respectively, meaning that his layers are 24, 28 and 24 (although, if you are familiarized with Anima, you will notice that those numbers do not fit, because considering his CON, POW and WIL values, his resistances should be more 145, 150 and 135 respectively. I, however, will not argue whenever the author forgot to write potential bonuses/penalties to resistances, or these values are slightly mistaken). Those are Ergo's base resistances, and he may increase them through to use of spells or by mimicrying other monster's powers).

 

[Robo432343]

As for Ergo's layers, just as we agreed in the Layer thread, every +5 above 20 is a layer, and Ergo has a PhR, MR and PsR equal to 140, 160 and 140, respectively, meaning that his layers are 24, 28 and 24 (although, if you are familiarized with Anima, you will notice that those numbers do not fit, because considering his CON, POW and WIL values, his resistances should be more 145, 150 and 135 respectively. I, however, will not argue whenever the author forgot to write potential bonuses/penalties to resistances, or these values are slightly mistaken). Those are Ergo's base resistances, and he may increase them through to use of spells or by mimicrying other monster's powers).

man im so confused about anima layers
i thought gnosis layers come in multiples of 5
so if someone had 35 gnosis he would have 7 layers, 40 gnosis would be 8 layers and 45 gnosis is 9 layers
the hax layer thread says that magic layers is 16, why?

 

[Antoniofer]

Gnosis do not interact with Resistances except in few instances: elemental attacks, venoms and poisons. For general rule, someone resistent/immune to a specific element (either halving the damage or being straight up immune) can get their powers ignored by someone of superior Gnosis (i.e, a fire elemental of Gn 25 can be harmed normally by the flames produced by someone of Gn 30 or higher). Note that the Gnosis difference do not ignore other forms of protection, either granted by armor, magic, psychic powers, or ki, and only cover the immunities granted by innate powers.

Likewise, immunity to poisons and disease is bypassed if the poison/disease is produced by someone whose Gnosis is at least 30, or the substance was created by magical means (i.e, the immunity only apply to natural poisons and diseases).

Beyond that, Gnosis does not interfere much. It generally grants some form of protection against variants of fate/causality manipulation, and allows the user to ignore some reality rules to some extend (like summoning), but supernatural effects work as usual. That is, if someone have a power that is like "immunity to death inducement effects unless the power was executed by someone with higher Gnosis", then no matter how high the Resistance check difficulty may be, as long the death inducing effect is produced by someone of lower Gnosis, then the effect will simply not work.

the hax layer thread says that magic layers is 16, why?

Don't remember giving an exact number, but I recall Glass saying the limit is up to 100 (or 80 above 20, that would 16 layers due the method agreed). If that's the case, then that number is not accurate (depending of the character, it may be lower or higher), and perhaps you may clear that up in the layer thread.

 

[Robo432343]

okay

it looks like ABF mundus just layer stomps