Mujin Park (GoH) vs The White Queen (Blood Sign)

[Robo432343]

Mujin Park

Mujin Park (Kor: 박무봉) is a member of the National Assembly of Korea, a member of The Six and the organizer of the G.O.H Tournament. Seventeen years after the Ragnarok Arc he becomes the World President. Tier: At least 6-A, High 6-A with Longinus Hand | 4-C physically, higher with Longinus Hand |...

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vs

The White Queen (Blood Sign)

The White Queen is an Unexplored-class Material, one of the beings who lurk beyond the gods in the other world. An incarnation of benevolence, the anthropomorphism of radiance, a symbol of sanctity, holiness, justice, strength, beauty, righteousness, etc; the White Queen is at the peak of the...

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Both 3-C
SBA
Speed Equal

 

[Livinmeme]

This shit again

 

[DavidTPPM]

0 tags is crazy work ngl

 

[DavidTPPM]

Anyway so all I remember is that WQs biggest advantage is her immortality. Killing her is a pain in the ass since she has 512 forms and even killing those is not enough.

That being said Mujins fear aura should at least paralyze her and his mt Oheng should seal her away

 

[DontTalkDT]

WQ dress would fight whether she's paralyzed or not. Given, she also power nulls that and I have serious doubt that it would work.

Anyway, passive social influencing gg.

 

[DavidTPPM]

WQ dress would fight whether she's paralyzed or not. Given, she also power nulls that and I have serious doubt that it would work.

Mujin should resist power null, is it not in his profile? (ironic that we didn't give such a major profile a rework yet)

Anyway, passive social influencing gg.

The way SI is described on the wiki makes it being passive kidna impossible so you'd have to expand on that

 

[DontTalkDT]

Mujin should resist power null, is it not in his profile? (ironic that we didn't give such a major profile a rework yet)

There is also mind resistance and that the laws of the universe are her servants (which includes the laws governing the metaphysical). Also passive summoning of creatures at least one of which can (and would) give her resistance to such effects.

The way SI is described on the wiki makes it being passive kidna impossible so you'd have to expand on that

Nah, the way the wiki describes it doesn't make it impossible at all. You can have SI via beauty and beauty is passive. The WQs charisma is such and explicitely is mentioned to work even if she just stands around.

 

[DavidTPPM]

There is also mind resistance and that the laws of the universe are her servants (which includes the laws governing the metaphysical). Also passive summoning of creatures at least one of which can (and would) give her resistance to such effects.

Mind manip resistance is something else and Mujin has iirc at least 4 accepted layers for Fear manip rn so even if she does somehow get fear resistance from others she should still be cooked.

Oh and his verbal mind hax are also layered so he can just command her to commit self-genocide.

Nah, the way the wiki describes it doesn't make it impossible at all. You can have SI via beauty and beauty is passive. The WQs charisma is such and explicitely is mentioned to work even if she just stands around.

I mean if it's just her being pretty or something can't Mujin just willpower through it? He has insane willpower and simply being charming is kidna weak

 

[Livinmeme]

Mujin after the white queen tries to seduce him

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Ah yes the infamous zero scans, zero references (I dont care to update it cause I dont have too but also dont delete the profile) special.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ah yes the infamous zero scans, zero references (I dont care to update it cause I dont have too but also dont delete the profile) special.

Go to the respect thread linked in the feat section of the page when you want to see scans, dude. It exists for a reason. (And don't miss the clickable text that uncollapses the quotes)

Mind manip resistance is something else and Mujin has iirc at least 4 accepted layers for Fear manip rn so even if she does somehow get fear resistance from others she should still be cooked.

Oh and his verbal mind hax are also layered so he can just command her to commit self-genocide.

If you can't affect the mind you can't put fear in it. Resistances tend to be downward compatible like that.
And while the resistance isn't layered, the protective circle (which is what she would gain from Shigara) protects against everything, including the laws of the world themselves. So it has additional potency in terms of quality.

Honestly, what even is the range of his passive fear aura? ... is it passive?

I will also point out that the Sword of Truth (which fights automatically to protect the WQ, doing all necessary to make her come out on top) could also just erase spacetime to make a hole/portal and toss the WQ through it well out of Mujin's range. Like, other end of the galaxy or something.

I mean if it's just her being pretty or something can't Mujin just willpower through it? He has insane willpower and simply being charming is kidna weak

Nah.
The charisma is stated to be dangerous even for Kyousuke. Now, Kyousuke is an Extraordinary Genius trained from birth by another Genius to be a "precision guided missle", i.e. to never abandon a goal once it has been set. And that was some extreme training.
Additionally, the White Queen killed his mother and sister right in front of him (not his abusive father, though). Then Kyousuke got a second family as part of a research project, which the WQ (either directly or indirectly) killed as well. Kyousuke blames it on her in any case.
So yeah, it's dangerous for someone extremely smart, specifically trained against being influenced and absolutely bloodlusted.
Mujin is not on that level against a random opponent he knows nothing about.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Ah yes the infamous zero scans, zero references, zero explanation for powers and abilities (I dont care to update it cause I dont have too but also dont delete the profile) special.

Well tbh MAYBE someone will eventually fix up the profile.
Most relevant GoH profiles sucked absolute ass just like 6 months ago but now they're slowly being fixed and reworked.

If you can't affect the mind you can't put fear in it. Resistances tend to be downward compatible like that.

Uhh no, not in this case at least. GoH fear manipulation doesn't work by directly manipulating the mind of the opponent but basically by making them instinctively shit their pants.

Fear in GoH is actually so ridiculously potent it can engrave into your DNA and even soul itself.

And while the resistance isn't layered, the protective circle (which is what she would gain from Shigara) protects against everything, including the laws of the world themselves. So it has additional potency in terms of quality.

I mean, Mori and Mujin also resisted law manip in top of fear, soul, and mind manipulation. Idk how would that make her more resistant to fear hax.

I will also point out that the Sword of Truth (which fights automatically to protect the WQ, doing all necessary to make her come out on top) could also just erase spacetime

Isn't that smurf? Since spacetimes are inherently 4D.

to make a hole/portal and toss the WQ through it well out of Mujin's range. Like, other end of the galaxy or something.

Mujins fear manipulation could affect Satan on an interdimensional scale actually.

Nah.
The charisma is stated to be dangerous even for Kyousuke. Now, Kyousuke is an Extraordinary Genius trained from birth by another Genius to be a "precision guided missle", i.e. to never abandon a goal once it has been set. And that was some extreme training. A
dditionally, the White Queen killed his mother and sister right in front of him (not his abusive father, though). Then Kyousuke got a second family as part of a research project, which the WQ (either directly or indirectly) killed as well. Kyousuke blames it on her in any case.
So yeah, it's dangerous for someone extremely smart, specifically trained against being influenced and absolutely bloodlusted.
Mujin is not on that level against a random opponent he knows nothing about.

Actually I'd say he is. Mujins entire life was basically centered around his hatred of gods, because they enslaved humanity and killed the only person he's ever loved. He literally committed a mass genocide of the entire race the moment he gained power despite them all serving him at that moment. Yet, Tathagata - the most evil god responsible for this all, could instantly make Mujin submit to him with his power.
Yet Mujin managed to overcome Tathagata and actually make him submit instead.

And after this Mujin proceeded to gain all of Tathagatas knowledge, with big T being an extraordinary genius who uncovered the truth of the universe and invented infinitely replicating and evolving weapons.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Uhh no, not in this case at least. GoH fear manipulation doesn't work by directly manipulating the mind of the opponent but basically by making them instinctively shit their pants.

Fear in GoH is actually so ridiculously potent it can engrave into your DNA and even soul itself.

But then it doesn't work because the WQ doesn't have that?
Like, if it's DNA based it doesn't work because the WQ doesn't have regular biology.
If it's soul based then you just get the mind thing again, but this time with Soul resistance (which works out to exactly the same factors).

I mean, Mori and Mujin also resisted law manip in top of fear, soul, and mind manipulation. Idk how would that make her more resistant to fear hax.

Because the laws governing supernatural powers and mental things themselves are included. If a barrier can block out the rules of what you're using themselves then the things can't get through it either, no?
Or to put it differently: These laws are the Queen's servants. You won't be able to defeat her with things governed by them. (which is why in-universe they had to create a law not controlled by the WQ to have any chance at victory)

Isn't that smurf? Since spacetimes are inherently 4D.

By that logic time manipulation is smurf.
No, unless you erase a decent chunk of the whole timeline spacetime abilities aren't considered smurf, which is why we don't give Tier 2 for such feats. This in particular is pretty similar to simply opening a wormhole.

Mujins fear manipulation could affect Satan on an interdimensional scale actually.

Interdimensional isn't universal.

Interdimensional: Attacks and abilities that can reach beyond the conventional space-time of a single universe, into external pocket realities or parts of other universes, but that can't travel a universal distance, can't affect multiple of these other realities at the same time, and can't reach into other multiverses or higher constructs.

You need separate feats of it working on someone a galaxy away. Just affecting someone in a pocket reality or different universe doesn't do it. As far as his profile goes Mujin's 3D range is just Tens of Kilometers and I don't know if that applies to his fear aura.

Actually I'd say he is. Mujins entire life was basically centered around his hatred of gods, because they enslaved humanity and killed the only person he's ever loved. He literally committed a mass genocide of the entire race the moment he gained power despite them all serving him at that moment. Yet, Tathagata - the most evil god responsible for this all, could instantly make Mujin submit to him with his power.
Yet Mujin managed to overcome Tathagata and actually make him submit instead.

And after this Mujin proceeded to gain all of Tathagatas knowledge, with big T being an extraordinary genius who uncovered the truth of the universe and invented infinitely replicating and evolving weapons.

The WQ isn't a god (and he wouldn't have knowledge anyway) so that hatred doesn't aid him against her.

And, uhhh... that submitting thing. Was that done via SI? Mujin doesn't seem to have any listed and you say "with his power". If it was done via supernatural suppression techniques, then it isn't a feat for these purposes, as it's resistance to said supernatural stuff instead.

 

[DavidTPPM]

But then it doesn't work because the WQ doesn't have that?

Doesn't have what? Instincts?

Like, if it's DNA based it doesn't work because the WQ doesn't have regular biology.

Neither do gods or demons, that doesn't really mean anything

If it's soul based then you just get the mind thing again, but this time with Soul resistance (which works out to exactly the same factors).

Again characters with mind and soul manip resistance in GoH were still affected by fear manipulation.
My point is not that it affects one or the other but that it's so potent it engraves pretty much into the persons entire being.

Because the laws governing supernatural powers and mental things themselves are included. If a barrier can block out the rules of what you're using themselves then the things can't get through it either, no?
Or to put it differently: These laws are the Queen's servants. You won't be able to defeat her with things governed by them. (which is why in-universe they had to create a law not controlled by the WQ to have any chance at victory)

Uhmmm okay? Like I said Mujin just outright resists law manipulation. Like not only was he not affected by the laws he could outright rip them apart with his bare hands.

By that logic time manipulation is smurf.

Uhhh not really? Time by itself is just 1 temporal dimension while spacetime is a whole 4D construct. I get what you're saying tho.

No, unless you erase a decent chunk of the whole timeline spacetime abilities aren't considered smurf, which is why we don't give Tier 2 for such feats. This in particular is pretty similar to simply opening a wormhole.

Idk man. It still sounds like smurf to me but idk how the non-smurf thread treats it.

Interdimensional isn't universal.

Fair ig?

You need separate feats of it working on someone a galaxy away. Just affecting someone in a pocket reality or different universe doesn't do it. As far as his profile goes Mujin's 3D range is just Tens of Kilometers and I don't know if that applies to his fear aura.

Oh yeah that's hilariously outdated. Like it literally mentioned Mujins feat of erasing 2 quintillion Satan clones across the solar system in the profile. But more importantly he scales above-mentioned SG Mori who has galactic ranges since that's how far his kick reached in an instant.

Now idk if that applies to his aura but if it could affect people in a whole different dimension/universe I don't see why couldn't he just do the same within a single universe.

The WQ isn't a god (and he wouldn't have knowledge anyway) so that hatred doesn't aid him against her.

That's not my point. My point is that Tathagatas power was so insanely potent it completely overwhelmed Mujin despite his hatred.
Also Mujin is just racist towards anyone who's not a generation X human. So not being a god won't save you from his hyper-racism lmao

And, uhhh... that submitting thing. Was that done via SI? Mujin doesn't seem to have any listed and you say "with his power". If it was done via supernatural suppression techniques, then it isn't a feat for these purposes, as it's resistance to said supernatural stuff instead.

It doesn't really matter. Him overcoming supernatural powers that make him submit to someone via willpower is a way better feat than overcoming regular SI that does something extremely similar, meaning he should have no issues overcoming SI. Her blog even notes this

humans like Kyousuke and others who possess incredible wills can stand against her

Meaning willpower can negate it and Mujins willpower is more than insane enough.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Go to the respect thread linked in the feat section of the page when you want to see scans, dude. It exists for a reason. (And don't miss the clickable text that uncollapses the quotes)

The thread pages look ass. Majority of the abilities doesn't even have scans and reference.

Also voting for Mujin via his mind manip and ungodly stats amps.

 

[DontTalkDT]

The thread pages look ass. Majority of the abilities doesn't even have scans and reference.

And don't miss the clickable text that uncollapses the quote

You missed it, didn't you?

Doesn't have what? Instincts?

Those particular instincts, yeah. She wouldn't have a specific instinct for fearing whatever Mujin is in particular.
Heck, considering how casual she was while getting her ass handed to her, I dare say she probably doesn't even have an instinctual fear of death. Death in itself is kinda below her, after all.

Neither do gods or demons, that doesn't really mean anything

Yeah well, the statement that the fear is on a genetic level doesn't really mean anything if there are no genetics. Like, either it works like that or not. You can't bring it up as a selling point at then say it has no influence.

Again characters with mind and soul manip resistance in GoH were still affected by fear manipulation.
My point is not that it affects one or the other but that it's so potent it engraves pretty much into the persons entire being.

Yeah, but as each aspect it digs into is shielded just as much as the mind alone was that doesn't add to your argument.

Uhmmm okay? Like I said Mujin just outright resists law manipulation. Like not only was he not affected by the laws he could outright rip them apart with his bare hands.

Do his abilities resist laws? Like, do they not operate under them? This one in particular? Also, laws on which level? The laws of the queen govern the universe as a whole.
If sound doesn't exists can he speak?

Idk man. It still sounds like smurf to me but idk how the non-smurf thread treats it.

It really isn't.

Oh yeah that's hilariously outdated. Like it literally mentioned Mujins feat of erasing 2 quintillion Satan clones across the solar system in the profile. But more importantly he scales above-mentioned SG Mori who has galactic ranges since that's how far his kick reached in an instant.

Now idk if that applies to his aura but if it could affect people in a whole different dimension/universe I don't see why couldn't he just do the same within a single universe.

Because, from what I see, he has no feats of it affecting anything that far away. And for something like an aura you really need that, especially if you claim it's a passive aura that spreads over that distance instantly.
You don't really automatically powerscale range. Just because he scales to Mori in power doesn't mean he has the same range. (Given, can't find galactic range on Mori's profile either, but I might be looking at the wrong one or something)

Is it even properly passive? Like, does he keep everyone on planet Earth paralyzed more than 50% of all time? Sounds like this would imply he keeps the whole setting permanently frozen, which would be rather impractical.

That's not my point. My point is that Tathagatas power was so insanely potent it completely overwhelmed Mujin despite his hatred.
Also Mujin is just racist towards anyone who's not a generation X human. So not being a god won't save you from his hyper-racism lmao

Yeah, but my point is that Mujin was aided by his hatred while overcoming Tathagatas power, which is a supporting factor on that occasion that he lacks here.

As far as Mujin knows the WQ is a borrowed power user (she actually basically has that ability). He has no way to really decern her as something else in the first second of the match.

It doesn't really matter. Him overcoming supernatural powers that make him submit to someone via willpower is a way better feat than overcoming regular SI that does something extremely similar, meaning he should have no issues overcoming SI. Her blog even notes this

Meaning willpower can negate it and Mujins willpower is more than insane enough.

Overcoming supernatural mind control is mind control resistance, not a showing of willpower at all. Especially if you, like Mujin, already have a resistance to mind manip.
SI is useful exactly because it works despite such resistances, as it doesn't interfere with the mind at all. Feats of shacking off a mental interference are meaningless against an ability that causes none.
So yeah, you need feats resisting actual SI here.

And as said, you Kyousuke level willpower can resist it. Mujin has no feats of having the kind of willpower Kyousuke has against the WQ, as that's made from all the impressive factors I listed earlier.

---

Regardless of the charisma, as it stands the Sword of Truth automatically spams a trillion automatically fighting spacetime, law and soul erasing weapons at Mujin to keep him briefly occupied and then teleports the WQ to the other end of the galaxy, where the aura has no feats of working. Afterwards the WQ just changes the past to make him die as an infant or hits him with her instant death curse or something.

Honestly, the information difference also needs consideration. Mujin doesn't know which of his stuff is meaningful against the WQ while the WQ can use her cosmic info gathering to learn exactly how to win. So even of Mujin had some opportunity it's not like he would necessarily take it, but the reverse isn't the case.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

You missed it, didn't you?

Some doesn't have any quote, collapseable or not.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Some doesn't have any quote, collapseable or not.

Which ones?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Which ones?

White Queen's Respect Thread

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DontTalkDT]

White Queen's Respect Thread

vsbattles.fandom.com

Yeah, I was aware you are talking about the respect thread. My question was which of the abilities listed in the respect thread have no quotes?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Yeah, I was aware you are talking about the respect thread. My question was which of the abilities listed in the respect thread have no quotes?

My bad, I was on phone.

There was none.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Those particular instincts, yeah. She wouldn't have a specific instinct for fearing whatever Mujin is in particular.
Heck, considering how casual she was while getting her ass handed to her, I dare say she probably doesn't even have an instinctual fear of death. Death in itself is kinda below her, after all.

Yeah imma have to call BS on that one. I don't see any immunity towards fear manipulation anywhere on her profile and generally nothing suggesting she would have it.

Yeah well, the statement that the fear is on a genetic level doesn't really mean anything if there are no genetics. Like, either it works like that or not. You can't bring it up as a selling point at then say it has no influence.

What? I never said it works specifically on genes alone. I said the fear is so potent it can imprint on the genes and soul of a target as a side effect. And are you saying WQ has inorganic physiology? Because she doesn't have it listened in neither her profile nor blog, and seems very much organic.

Yeah, but as each aspect it digs into is shielded just as much as the mind alone was that doesn't add to your argument.

Yeah again no, what are you even talking about? Every time you try to make an argument it ends up being a more and more vague generalization of fear.

Fear manipulation ≠ mind manipulation, biological manipulation, or whatever else you're trying to connect it to. It's a completely different, separate ability that works on a completely different basis and resisting any of the others things mentioned does not give you resistance to the fear hax.

Do his abilities resist laws?

Yeah he should have been completely incapable of interacting with humans and he just straight up beat up Mori before ripping the law to shreds. He also killed a punch of people as shit.
Hell his resistance expands so much that the mini gods created by Mujin becoming a god could turn humans into vapor with their abilities as well.

This one in particular? Also, laws on which level? The laws of the queen govern the universe as a whole.

CM2 laws that govern reality across 3+ universes.

Because, from what I see, he has no feats of it affecting anything that far away. And for something like an aura you really need that, especially if you claim it's a passive aura that spreads over that distance instantly.

Well he can supposedly "reveal the universe" using his weapons so worst case scenario he uses that.

(Given, can't find galactic range on Mori's profile either, but I might be looking at the wrong one or something)

It's a relatively new calc so I didn't really have time for it and only focused on AP so far. The accepted range is 2.4030255e+22

Is it even properly passive? Like, does he keep everyone on planet Earth paralyzed more than 50% of all time? Sounds like this would imply he keeps the whole setting permanently frozen, which would be rather impractical.

It's passive but has to be activated by basically "putting up your guard". It pretty much activates based on hostility.
So you could pretty much pass casual Mujin on the street without noticing him but the moment he decides to fight someone you'd freeze in fear.

Yeah, but my point is that Mujin was aided by his hatred while overcoming Tathagatas power, which is a supporting factor on that occasion that he lacks here.

No, he was aided by the 3 prophets that protect him who helped him snap out of it. Mind you these 3 prophets passively protect him as pretty much a part of his soul and mind.

And Tathagatas power specifically made Mujin feel peaceful, negating any sort of hatred he might have towards him and making Mujin submit his body to Tathagata.

As far as Mujin knows the WQ is a borrowed power user (she actually basically has that ability). He has no way to really decern her as something else in the first second of the match.

Uhh actually he kidna does. He has the same fiery red eyes and golden pupils as Mori which specifically allow you to see and analyze flow of energy, substances, whether someone is a BP user, and basically grant x-ray vision. He also has a 6th sense for power, and info analysis that allows him to essentially read your mind based on how you attack so yeah, he definitely has the means to analyze WQ.

Overcoming supernatural mind control is mind control resistance, not a showing of willpower at all.

That's just blatantly wrong wtf? Those 2 are not mutually exclusive. Overcoming mind and sleep manipulation that is shown to visibly affect you through sheer willpower IS an insane willpower feat.

Especially if you, like Mujin, already have a resistance to mind manip.

Mujin had no mind manip resistances back then. He gained it from becoming a supreme god and Tathagata was literally the roadblock to becoming a SG.

SI is useful exactly because it works despite such resistances, as it doesn't interfere with the mind at all. Feats of shacking off a mental interference are meaningless against an ability that causes none. So yeah, you need feats resisting actual SI here.

Quite the opposite. Social Influence is literally just poor man's mind manipulation as it's far easier to counter by just being smart enough and having enough willpower. You can't "resist social influence" because it's not an actual power. There's nothing to resist, you're literally not being affected by something that needs resistance

If actual magic can't make Mujin submit because of his willpower and the prophets then some random girl being pretty sure as hell isn't. Especially when he's now an extraordinary genius.

And as said, you Kyousuke level willpower can resist it. Mujin has no feats of having the kind of willpower Kyousuke has against the WQ, as that's made from all the impressive factors I listed earlier.

Yeah Mujin doesn't have willpower feats of resisting someone being pretty but instead actual magical powers making him submit his body to someone.

Regardless of the charisma, as it stands the Sword of Truth automatically spams a trillion automatically fighting spacetime, law and soul erasing weapons at Mujin to keep him briefly occupied

Is it actually canonically a trillion? Because if so Mujin one taps them immediately and cripples WQ at the same time by spawning spikes inside of them

and then teleports the WQ to the other end of the galaxy,

How does the teleportation work? Did she ever teleport across a galactic range?

where the aura has no feats of working. Afterwards the WQ just changes the past to make him die as an infant or hits him with her instant death curse or something.

Has WQ ever done that across a galactic distance? Because her range is only "possibly" galactic which more so seems to be tied towards her "possibly" 3-C AP rating rather than the range of her hax.

Honestly, the information difference also needs consideration. Mujin doesn't know which of his stuff is meaningful against the WQ while the WQ can use her cosmic info gathering to learn exactly how to win. So even of Mujin had some opportunity it's not like he would necessarily take it, but the reverse isn't the case.

Mujins go-to opening moves would be to paralyze her with a single word, then command her to kill herself with his layered mind manipulation. So even if we assume Mujin doesn't instantly decipher her using his info analysis and eyes his opening moves would still be the exact things that work on her.

 

[Yeolban]

Mujin could attack Mori despite him being a beautiful ass mf, some anime girl should be no problem

Jokes aside, I vote Mujin FRA.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Go to the respect thread linked in the feat section of the page when you want to see scans, dude. It exists for a reason. (And don't miss the clickable text that uncollapses the quotes)

Yeh no, I shouldn't have to go to a blog to explain a characters abilities. It's not 2017 anymore. Also there is no raw scans it's just a wall of text