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Morrison Cosmology

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Just to give an introduction, since the cosmology split for DC comics got accepted I decided to make a control thread focusing specifically on Morrison’s cosmology. Morrison’s cosmology tends to be a mix of cosmological and philosophical theories and to make things easier I summarized all the important aspects of each theory that was being incorporated and how it was being incorporated into the cosmology. The 5 dominant themes within Morrison’s cosmology are M-theory, Platonism, Bohm Theory, Manichaeism and some stuff from Buddhism. Note, that not all aspects of these theories are true for Morrison’s cosmology and within this thread I’ve only analyzed the theories from how Morrison seems to treat and represent them.

Local Multiverse
It comprises the 52 known worlds/universes.
Bleed Space
Space between universes that encompasses multiple multiverses. It’s also a higher dimensional bulk.
The Quintessence
The Quintessence are a group of beings who occupy a timeless and eternal vigil over all that is. It includes Highfather, Phantom Stranger, Ganthet, and The Wizard.
Layers of the Orrery
Dimensions in this context is not referring to parallel universes as Metrons whole goal is to unravel the secrets of reality by using his Mobius chair to explore realities' limits.
Orrery of worlds
The Orrery is essentially the structure that appeared on the Overvoid. It contains the local Multiverse and the bleed along with the Speed Force serving as its edge and Wonderworld sitting on its outercurve.

Speed Force Wall
The speed force wall is the edge of the Orrery of Worlds and is what contains the higher dimensional energy field known as the speed force.(The Flash #131) To the denizens of the Orrery it is known as the speed of light and is only a limit to matter.

Wonderworld
Wonder World is a realm created by the Gods that sits at the top of the Orrery. It is defined as the most extreme limit of time and space.
Note: Do not connect the map of the Multiverse from Multiversity stating Wonderworld is beyond creation to Zauriel stating the fifth dimension is “beyond creation” in JLA 1997, to downscale Wonderworld to only being the limit of 4D spacetime. The word creation in this context is coming from two different stories where it is most likely being used differently. As not only in the JLA 1997 run is Wonderworld stated to contain bottles that can entrap 5D imps in 6 dimensions, but it is also shown on the map to surpass Bleed space which is directly stated in Multiversity to be rotating through the fifth dimension. Meaning the fifth dimension being described as “beyond creation” by Zauriel is simply referring to beyond 4D spacetime. I believe this is a better interpretation of the term creation because it aligns with all the evidence and doesn’t cause any contradiction.

Warlogog
The Warlogog is essentially one of the most powerful weapons in existence. It is a mirror of the universe and a toy from New Genesis.
Godsphere
Transcending the material plane is the Godsphere which is a realm housing archetypal and platonic-like worlds. Home to the mythical realms like New Genesis, Apokolips, The Dreaming, The Silver City, etc. This reality operates off ManifhaeismPlato’s theory of forms.
The New Gods representing the form/idea of good has been supported in multiple other ways. For example, in Orion's sketch it was outright stated that the symbol for the Gods of New Genesis was the symbol of good and featured a symbol of a sun.(Final Crisis sketch book) In Plato’s theory of forms the sun is often compared to the Form of the Good. Another example is when Metron(a god of New Genesis) gives the people of Earth knowledge.(Final Crisis #1) In Plato’s theory of forms, the Form of the Good is the origin of knowledge.
In Manichaeism cosmology, there is a dualistic approach that Light or The Good or God who dwells in the world of Light is not all powerful and is opposed by the King of Darkness who dwells in the world of darkness.
The interconnection
The interconnection is something that was introduced to us by the Writer who lives in Comic Book Limbo. It is the idea of the cosmos being a recursive structure. This structure and Limbo take inspiration from Bohm theory.
“Universe” in this context is coming from the Writer who defines the cosmos as what he plays with or writes. And the Writer is a stand-in for Grant Morrison who has written stuff like the Doom Patrol, JLA, etc, all of which have been to the Godsphere. So this recursion would encompass even the Godsphere.

The Universe being a mirror reflecting itself where every part contains the whole, is a reference to the “infinity mirror” which is essentially an example of an infinite recursion where a mirror reflects itself creating a seemingly infinite series of smaller reflections.

The idea of infinite recursion is something Grant Morrison has dabbled on in not just Animal Man but also in Doom Patrol with stuff like “the painting that ate Paris” and with Larry’s Russian dolls.
The Great Light
Existing as a middle ground between the Implicate Order and reality and functioning as the background which the interconnection of reality exists in is the Great Light.
Comic book limbo
Comic Book Limbo is a higher world that essentially functions as a place for characters who’ve been removed from the continuity. It exists outside the story of DC comics and also transcends it.
Monitor Sphere/Nil
A fundamental world of primal forms and hyperstory’s beyond Limbo. It is a reality that formed around the Thought Robot while it was standing in the Overvoid. With the Monitors and their history coming into being from the Overvoids questions and speculations of the mysterious Thought Robot.
Source Wall
The limit to even thought. The Source Wall is a barrier separating the entire Multiverse from the Overvoid, the Source, and the unknowable.
The Source
The Source is essentially the being the New Gods worship. It exists outside The Source Wall which encircles the Monitor Sphere. It created the Old Gods, New Gods and their world.
The Overvoid/Mandrakk and the Thought Robot
Monitor-Mind the Overvoid is the highest level in Morrison’s DC cosmology. It is a sentient void of perfection functioning as the canvas for all stories and as a state of pure oneness, absence, and awareness without limits or definition.
The idea of the Overvoid is something that essentially stems from Buddhism as Morrison has made references to this in the comics. Specifically in Doom Patrol with stuff like Mr Nobody’s origin story and Cliffs experience with erasure.

In Mr Nobody’s origin story we would be exposed to something called the white room. Which is an all white space that appears endless in size. After being put in this white room all by himself for multiple days, Mr Nobody would become convinced of his own “serene divinity.” Claiming he was “Like the ascended Buddha, I was beyond Maya, beyond the veil of illusion. I knew the purity of infinite absence.”(Doom Patrol #26) However one day a dot, a speck, appeared in the white void. Mr Nobody would become infatuated with this dot, and begin generating entire cosmologies around it. (Doom Patrol #26) The reason this part of Mr Nobody’s origin sounds familiar is because it’s exactly identical to the Overvoid’s origin. Similar to what we see in Mr Nobody’s origin, the Overvoid was a sentient infinite pure and perfect white space until one day an infinitesimal flaw appeared within itself that haunted the Overvoid and caused it to generate a cage to contain it so it could grow.

Another example of Buddhism being referenced is when Cliff was trapped in a computer and was deleted. While Cliff was within a computer he would be confronted with something called “The Abyss” that if he entered would break him down and disintegrate him. However Cliff would enter anyway and be exposed to what was described as “The noise, the silence, a blizzard of nothing at all blowing through all thought, scouring consciousness.”(Doom Patrol #62) After miraculously surviving, Cliff would be told that the state of being he entered must have been similar to what Buddhist call Samadhi.(Doom Patrol #62) Samadhi is considered in Buddhism to be the final stage in which one obtains direct experience with truth or absolute consciousness or the ultimate reality, where union with the divine is reached.

Debunking 11-D DC Multiverse.
The interpretation of the DC Multiverse being 11-D stems from the argument that Morrison used Superstring theory and M theory, and therefore it’s 11-D. However, I believe this interpretation comes from a lack of information and understanding of Morrison’s cosmology.
  1. There is never a mention of there being specifically 11 dimensions in Morrison’s comics. There is only a reference to 8-D mazes, an 8-D Mobius loop, and 28 dimensions that Metron journeyed through which completely contradicts there being an 11-D cosmology.
  2. The interconnection would suggest an even greater amount of levels.
  3. The part of superstring theory Morrison took and mashed up with the DC multiverse idea was the notion of our universe with its three dimensions of space and time spread across the surface of a flat membrane. And each brane resides in a hyperdimensional medium(the bleed). That’s it. Referencing and incorporating certain parts of a theory into the cosmology doesn’t mean every part of that theory is true for the cosmology. If we were to accept the logic being used to say the DC Multiverse is 11-D then there’d also be an infinite amount of dimensions due to Bohm theory which was also referenced and mashed up into Morrison’s cosmology.
Some final things that I’d like to address.
  1. The Presence does not scale to the entirety of existence. The statement that there is no land/reality beyond the vengeance of God is not the same as saying the Presence has control over the entirety of existence up to the Source Wall. Additionally, even in the very same story this is mentioned the Spectre who is the vengeance of God got his ass beat by the Djinn who are 5D imps.(JLA #30) And Final Crisis the Spectre got his ass beat again by a depowered Monitor.(Final Crisis #7) Furthermore, I honestly don’t even understand why anyone would think the Presence holds any position of relevance in Morrison’s cosmology as the Presence is barely mentioned in any of Morrison’s material.
  2. The Source and the Overvoid are not the same being. Not only does the actual official version of the Multiversity map list them as separate things but even the very characteristics of each entity is different. For example, the Source took part in making creation, the New Gods, and understands what creation is. The Overvoid is depicted in Final Crisis and Multiversity to have not taken part in making creation and to not understand what it is. Also it’s possible to come from beyond the Source like with Maggedon(JLA #37) which would be impossible if the Source = Overvoid.
Tiers
Orrery: 1-B. There are 28 dimensions, with beings of lower reality being of less substance than shadows on the wall to higher reality beings. Higher reality beings also have power that is beyond infinite and can penetrate the lower reality at any level and control it.

Godsphere/New Gods: 1-B. Is the true archetypal realm of forms to the entire 1-B Orrery, with the Gods/forms representing “absolute meaning and ultimate being” and the Form of Good. Essentially the Gods are the cause and basis of understanding and defining of the Orrery. To add on, the entire Godsphere exists outside of and independent to the entire Orrery with the shadows emanating from the forms being equivalent in size to the entire Orrery.

The interconnection: High 1-B. Infinite recursion of an already 1-B structure with the beings in the interconnection dreaming one another.

The Great Light: 1-A. A manifestation of the vast absence that lies behind reality, and a depiction of the background or page in which reality exists inside of as drawings.

Limbo: 1-A. Represents the vast sea of potential and higher state which reality is unfolded from. Also looks down on the Great Light from the outside as a story that can be written and read for entertainment.

Nil: 1-A. Is a fundamental world of primal forms and hyper stories beyond Limbo, perceiving it as an infinitesimal flat disk.

The Source: 1-A. Exists beyond the 1-A realms functioning as an ultimate concept which contains all dual concepts.

Overvoid/Mandrakk and CAS: High 1-A. The canvas in which all levels of story and hyperstory exist. Functioning as an ultimate reality and unimaginably abstract ascended state of infinite and eternal oneness without limits that stands beyond definition and beyond the very concept of story which has generated even 1-A realms.
 
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Debunking 11-D DC Multiverse.
The interpretation of the DC Multiverse being 11-D stems from the argument that Morrison used Superstring theory and M theory, and therefore it’s 11-D. However, I believe this interpretation comes from a lack of information and understanding of Morrison’s cosmology.
  1. There is never a mention of there being specifically 11 dimensions in Morrison’s comics. There is only a reference to 8-D mazes, an 8-D Mobius loop, and 28 dimensions that Metron journeyed through which completely contradicts there being an 11-D cosmology.
  2. The interconnection would suggest an even greater amount of levels.
  3. The part of superstring theory Morrison took and mashed up with the DC multiverse idea was the notion of our universe with its three dimensions of space and time spread across the surface of a flat membrane. And each brane resides in a hyperdimensional medium(the bleed). That’s it. Referencing and incorporating certain parts of a theory into the cosmology doesn’t mean every part of that theory is true for the cosmology. If we were to accept the logic being used to say the DC Multiverse is 11-D then there’d also be an infinite amount of dimensions due to Bohm theory which was also referenced and mashed up into Morrison’s cosmology.
I agree with this.
The fact you added doom patrol, I very much acknowledge the work put into this.
 
Nil: 1-A. Is a fundamental world of primal forms and hyper stories beyond Limbo, perceiving it as an infinitesimal flat disk.
well best as possible the monitor sphere can be High 1-A because the ship which is the size of limbo city is infinitesimal which indicates Reality>Fiction
 
well best as possible the monitor sphere can be High 1-A because the ship which is the size of limbo city is infinitesimal which indicates Reality>Fiction
I don’t think that’s how it works. High 1-A is represented by the inaccessible cardinal so the idea is that it’s unreachable to any amount of 1-A layers. So a simple R>F won’t really cut it.
 
I don’t think that’s how it works. High 1-A is represented by the inaccessible cardinal so the idea is that it’s unreachable to any amount of 1-A layers. So a simple R>F won’t really cut it.
Touching an inaccessible cardinal doesn't always have to be Structure High 1-A and limbo is the last Existence Post
Structure 1-A And the Monitor sphere considers a ship the size of a limbo city as an Infinitesimal making it High 1-A,and I've never seen an Entity in Structure 1A reach a Sphere monitor even once
 
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We cannot have several revisions about the same issue at the same time.
 
Touching an inaccessible cardinal doesn't always have to be Structure High 1-A and limbo is the last Existence Post
Structure 1-A And the Monitor sphere considers a ship the size of a limbo city as an Infinitesimal making it High 1-A
Seeing a 1-A structure as infinitesimal is not High 1-A, it is simply another layer on 1-A. Seeing an entire 1-A hierarchy as infinitesimal would be needed.
 
Seeing a 1-A structure as infinitesimal is not High 1-A, it is simply another layer on 1-A. Seeing an entire 1-A hierarchy as infinitesimal would be needed.
limbo itself is the last outpost of existence from Structure 1A, obviously limbo is the last level of Structure 1A and considers infinitesimal objects to make that place high 1-A
 
limbo itself is the last outpost of existence from Structure 1A, obviously limbo is the last level of Structure 1A and considers infinitesimal objects to make that place high 1-A
Limbos at the end of a 1-A structure, but not of a 1-A hierarchy. It is simply another step on that hierachy, beyond the steps that is below it, with more steps beyond it.
 
tbh close this, handle it in the staff thread we have going on later, if there is anything that needs to be handled, it should be handled there.
Truth be told, this looks disruptive of the thread we have going on already, we have not even decided fully on what will we be splitting as we are currently of the mind that some cosmologies with no differences can stick together.
And if he feels like he can wait and just re open the thread after the current thread is done
 
tbh close this, handle it in the staff thread we have going on later, if there is anything that needs to be handled, it should be handled there.
Truth be told, this looks disruptive of the thread we have going on already, we have not even decided fully on what will we be splitting as we are currently of the mind that some cosmologies with no differences can stick together.
And if he feels like he can wait and just re open the thread after the current thread is done
It doesn’t have to be closed. We can just evaluate it after part 2 of the DC cosmology revision project is done. And I’m perfectly fine with waiting tbh.
 
I agree with Pain_to12. You are not supposed to start content revision threads about exactly the same thing as another already ongoing more prominent revision. It is better if you take up your arguments at an appropriate time there instead.

I will close this thread then.
 
Also, I personally agree with Everything12's arguments above. Thank you for helping out. 🙏
 
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