MonsterVerse Godzilla Hax Removal

[OrianGAME]

Current MV Godzilla profile: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Godzilla_(MonsterVerse)

Spoiler: Regeneration

Regeneration (At least Mid-Low in combat; At least Low-Mid over time; Godzilla regenerated his dorsal spines that were completely shattered by MUTO Prime, over an unspecific amount of time

Godzilla's dorsal plates are likended to hair or antlers

This doesn't fit the description for Regeneration being healing wounds, as Godzilla's not technically wounded in the first place due to how his dorsal plates actually work

Spoiler: Heat Generation

Heat Generation (Passive; Godzilla can boil the water around him)

1. This isn't Base Godzilla, this scan is talking about Supercharged Godzilla after he got nuked
   
2. Even Supercharged Godzilla never actually boils the ocean in anyway in the actual movie
3. Base Godzilla has consistently NOT boiled the ocean in every scene of him in water

Spoiler: Matter Manipulation

Energy Projection, Energy Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Radiation Manipulation & Light Manipulation (Quantum; Godzilla uses his radiation to power his Atomic Breath and energy pulse generation, which work in a quantum state)

1. The scan provided says Godzilla converts radiation into another form of energy but the profile itself says Godzilla JUST uses radiation which is a huge contradiction
2. This is called speculation and only a possibility by Nathan, this is a blatant Appeal to Possibility fallacy
3. It's been confirmed already by Legendary that Godzilla uses actual radiation, not any unknown quantum energy
4. Arvid Nelson (Writer of Godzilla Aftershock and Birth of Kong) doesn't think Godzilla even has atomization
   
5. The scan says nobody knows how the Atomic Breath works, but Godzilla's Monarch Profile reveals they know every step of how Godzilla generates his beam
6. The scan says the energy Godzilla uses is unknown but Legendary's confirmed it's nucleosynthesis and obviously we KNOW what energy process nucleosynthesis is
   

Agree: Eseseso, Cardex01, Arceus0x (Only on fully removing Heat Generation), Iyke2077, AyOgUyS
Disagree: Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh,

 

[OrianGAME]

forgot to add tags damn

 

[Eseseso]

All of this looks fine.

 

[Arceus0x]

Regeneration should stay but be limited to the spines.

I would like to see the original question asked to the author of aftershock as this seems like an answer to a leading question. We do not allow leading questions on our profiles.

 

[Arceus0x]

adding onto this, we don't treat it as atomization, just that he has an effect on the quantum field. If we used atomization we'd have had the guy at 5-B a while ago

 

[Cardex01]

looked good to me

 

[OrianGAME]

Regeneration should stay but be limited to the spines.

Sounds fine i dont have any problems with that

I would like to see the original question asked to the author of aftershock as this seems like an answer to a leading question. We do not allow leading questions on our profiles.

Yeah this is def unusable but i believe my 5 other points should be fine

 

[Arceus0x]

Sounds fine i dont have any problems with that



Yeah this is def unusable but i believe my 5 other points should be fine

I think we should leave a possibly quantum level here as in the end the statement does exist in an official book. MV contradicting themselves isn't exactly new but still, I think leaving it open as a possibility should be better. The rest is fine.

 

[Iyke2077]

Agree looks good

 

[Maniaunavailable]

shouldnt heat generation just be moved to burning and only burning godzilla?

 

[OrianGAME]

shouldnt heat generation just be moved to burning and only burning godzilla?

Should be removed for Base, should be added to Post-Meltdown since Energized Godzilla actually has passive heat generation and Evolved should keep his Temp Manip

 

[Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh]

Current MV Godzilla profile: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Godzilla_(MonsterVerse)

Spoiler: Regeneration

Godzilla's dorsal plates are likended to hair or antlers

This doesn't fit the description for Regeneration being healing wounds, as Godzilla's not technically wounded in the first place due to how his dorsal plates actually work

I don't think Regeneration should be removed. The comparison to hair or antlers doesn't really address the main point. Godzilla's dorsal plates were completely shattered by MUTO Prime and later grew back. That's still damaged biological tissue being restored. If anything, the ability could just be limited to his dorsal plates instead of being removed entirely.

Spoiler: Heat Generation

1. This isn't Base Godzilla, this scan is talking about Supercharged Godzilla after he got nuked
   
2. Even Supercharged Godzilla never actually boils the ocean in anyway in the actual movie
3. Base Godzilla has consistently NOT boiled the ocean in every scene of him in water

Official Godzilla vs. Kong material states that Godzilla's Atomic Breath reaches at least 20,000 °C, meaning his body generates that level of heat when firing it.

Spoiler: Matter Manipulation

1. The scan provided says Godzilla converts radiation into another form of energy but the profile itself says Godzilla JUST uses radiation which is a huge contradiction
2. This is called speculation and only a possibility by Nathan, this is a blatant Appeal to Possibility fallacy
3. It's been confirmed already by Legendary that Godzilla uses actual radiation, not any unknown quantum energy
4. Arvid Nelson (Writer of Godzilla Aftershock and Birth of Kong) doesn't think Godzilla even has atomization
   
5. The scan says nobody knows how the Atomic Breath works, but Godzilla's Monarch Profile reveals they know every step of how Godzilla generates his beam
6. The scan says the energy Godzilla uses is unknown but Legendary's confirmed it's nucleosynthesis and obviously we KNOW what energy process nucleosynthesis is
   

1. I don't think this is a contradiction. The scan doesn't say Godzilla doesn't use radiation; it says he converts radiation into another form of energy that becomes the Atomic Breath. Radiation is the input, while the beam is the output. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

2. I'm a bit confused. The CRT keeps mentioning "Nathan's statement," but I don't see it anywhere in the evidence provided. Could you link the original source and its full context? It's hard to judge the argument without seeing what he actually said.

3. I don't think this scan proves that. It only says the Atomic Breath is powered by Godzilla's atomic energy, which he absorbed from the Earth's core. That's describing the energy source, not the exact nature of the beam after it's generated.

4. I don't think Arvid's reply is as definitive as it's being presented. He wasn't explaining how the Atomic Breath works on his own; he was answering a fan's question: "Does it vaporize things, or does it break things down on an atomic level?" Since it was framed as a forced choice, I don't think his reply should be treated as a comprehensive explanation of how the Atomic Breath works.

5. I don't see the contradiction. The profile explains how Godzilla produces the Atomic Breath, not necessarily everything about the beam itself. Those aren't the same thing.

6. The tweet only says the Atomic Breath is powered by glands in Godzilla's throat. It explains where the energy comes from, not everything the beam can do.

 

[Oiguana2701]

Current MV Godzilla profile: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Godzilla_(MonsterVerse)

Spoiler: Regeneration

Godzilla's dorsal plates are likended to hair or antlers

This doesn't fit the description for Regeneration being healing wounds, as Godzilla's not technically wounded in the first place due to how his dorsal plates actually work

I think this should be removed tbh, with the main issue being the time it took to regenerate.

Spoiler: Heat Generation

1. This isn't Base Godzilla, this scan is talking about Supercharged Godzilla after he got nuked
   
2. Even Supercharged Godzilla never actually boils the ocean in anyway in the actual movie
3. Base Godzilla has consistently NOT boiled the ocean in every scene of him in water

I'm indifferent towards this, but Godzilla not boiling the ocean in every scene he appeared isn't a good argument. Just because a character can do something doesn't mean they'll always do this thing. He has no reason to boil the ocean in other scenes. Still, I also disagree with this.

Spoiler: Matter Manipulation

1. The scan provided says Godzilla converts radiation into another form of energy but the profile itself says Godzilla JUST uses radiation which is a huge contradiction
2. This is called speculation and only a possibility by Nathan, this is a blatant Appeal to Possibility fallacy
3. It's been confirmed already by Legendary that Godzilla uses actual radiation, not any unknown quantum energy
4. Arvid Nelson (Writer of Godzilla Aftershock and Birth of Kong) doesn't think Godzilla even has atomization
   
5. The scan says nobody knows how the Atomic Breath works, but Godzilla's Monarch Profile reveals they know every step of how Godzilla generates his beam
6. The scan says the energy Godzilla uses is unknown but Legendary's confirmed it's nucleosynthesis and obviously we KNOW what energy process nucleosynthesis is
   

I disagree with this mostly because of the reasoning of the others before me, but I also find most of these not to be very good arguments, with the usage of a tweet coming from a writer of two MV comics being something we actively discourage in the wiki.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I agree with everyone else on these topics. At worst the Matter Manipulation should get a likely rating, not be removed entirely.

 

[OrianGAME]

I don't think Regeneration should be removed. The comparison to hair or antlers doesn't really address the main point. Godzilla's dorsal plates were completely shattered by MUTO Prime and later grew back. That's still damaged biological tissue being restored. If anything, the ability could just be limited to his dorsal plates instead of being removed entirely.

Hair and antlers aren't biological tissue, keratin on a living organism does not act like or is biological tissue which is what Godzilla's dorsal plates are to Godzilla so it's not actual regeneration that can apply to his regular regeneration (actual biological matter). If we don't list every character as having regeneration because they can grow their hair out we shouldn't for MV Godzilla

Official Godzilla vs. Kong material states that Godzilla's Atomic Breath reaches at least 20,000 °C, meaning his body generates that level of heat when firing it.

Not passive since it Godzilla obviously doesn't passively fire atomic breaths everywhere and said non-passive heat also doesn't casually boils the ocean as the profile uses as it's justification for Heat Gen. He never does anything with said heat that's important enough to get the hax qualification unless we should include heat generation for every single character since body heat is a thing. Or space-time manipulation since litterally abything with mass disorts space-time to a degree1. I don't think this is a contradiction. The scan doesn't say Godzilla doesn't use radiation; it says he converts radiation into another form of energy that becomes the Atomic Breath. Radiation is the input, while the beam is the output. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

1. I don't think this is a contradiction. The scan doesn't say Godzilla doesn't use radiation; it says he converts radiation into another form of energy that becomes the Atomic Breath. Radiation is the input, while the beam is the output. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Another form of energy in the sense of being seperate from the radiation that he usually absorbs, it wouldn't be called "unknown energy" if it wasn't known radiation. It s mutually exclusive because you can't use radiation but another form of energy that's NOT radiation at the same time

2. I'm a bit confused. The CRT keeps mentioning "Nathan's statement," but I don't see it anywhere in the evidence provided. Could you link the original source and its full context? It's hard to judge the argument without seeing what he actually said.

Gvk Movie Novelization by Greg Keyes specifically chapter 8, here's my copy for reference

Spoiler: Physical copy not the PDF crap

Idk how im supposed to prove that it's Nathan's statement with plain evidence because this is a 3rd person narration, books/novels ONLY happen through what's essentially statements. It'd be like me asking you to show physical tangible evidence that you can see, you can't exactly 3d print your eyeballs and plug the information into someone's brain, just read the first few pages and you'll get exactly who's POV it is already

3. I don't think this scan proves that. It only says the Atomic Breath is powered by Godzilla's atomic energy, which he absorbed from the Earth's core. That's describing the energy source, not the exact nature of the beam after it's generated.

5. I don't see the contradiction. The profile explains how Godzilla produces the Atomic Breath, not necessarily everything about the beam itself. Those aren't the same thing.

6. The tweet only says the Atomic Breath is powered by glands in Godzilla's throat. It explains where the energy comes from, not everything the beam can do.

All of these points rely on the same premise so im gonna debunk that instead of go over each individual point

What you're arguing is essentially like saying that the production of galvanized square steel is not actually made of galvanized square steel, the production of something being from a specific source that's of specific nature naturally entails that the created object shares the fundemental principle, for a few more examples rq: You're arguing nuclear bombs aren't actually nuclear despite them being produced with radioactive material and use nuclear fusion, you're arguing that the chair im sitting on rn isn't made of wood despite being carved from it, you're arguing my crisp 50 euros isn't actually made out of paper despite it litterally being printed paper and so on.

4. I don't think Arvid's reply is as definitive as it's being presented. He wasn't explaining how the Atomic Breath works on his own; he was answering a fan's question: "Does it vaporize things, or does it break things down on an atomic level?" Since it was framed as a forced choice, I don't think his reply should be treated as a comprehensive explanation of how the Atomic Breath works.

Adressed this before somewhere at the top, stopped using it after finding the original context

You also just blatantly decided to ignore my point about the fallacy which even if you were right about everything here would still debunk MV having quantum matter manipulation

 

[OrianGAME]

I'm indifferent towards this, but Godzilla not boiling the ocean in every scene he appeared isn't a good argument. Just because a character can do something doesn't mean they'll always do this thing. He has no reason to boil the ocean in other scenes. Still, I also disagree with this.

You're completely ignoring the main points of the scan being used for a specific state of Godzilla that's not his base and the additional fact it's not even a canon ability he has

I disagree with this mostly because of the reasoning of the others before me, but I also find most of these not to be very good arguments, with the usage of a tweet coming from a writer of two MV comics being something we actively discourage in the wiki.

The wiki encourages the use of fallacies and the matter manipulation is one of them, so what exactly is "not very good" about that?

 

[Oiguana2701]

You're completely ignoring the main points of the scan being used for a specific state of Godzilla that's not his base and the additional fact it's not even a canon ability he has

I personally believe this should only be added to the Supercharged Godzilla key, but it not appearing in the movie doesn't really matter if it was in the novelization of the film.

The wiki encourages the use of fallacies and the matter manipulation is one of them, so what exactly is "not very good" about that?

You're saying we should use fallacies? The thing that actively makes an argument worse? I specifically meant the usage of the WoG of one of the writers.

 

[OrianGAME]

I personally believe this should only be added to the Supercharged Godzilla key, but it not appearing in the movie doesn't really matter if it was in the novelization of the film.

Film takes priority over the novelization

You're saying we should use fallacies? The thing that actively makes an argument worse?

Yes, it makes the argument for MV having matter manipulation worse because it relies on a fallacious scan

I specifically meant the usage of the WoG of one of the writers.

I never argued against this, you're acting like i made some random unrelated contention against this

 

[Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh]

Hair and antlers aren't biological tissue, keratin on a living organism does not act like or is biological tissue which is what Godzilla's dorsal plates are to Godzilla so it's not actual regeneration that can apply to his regular regeneration (actual biological matter). If we don't list every character as having regeneration because they can grow their hair out we shouldn't for MV Godzilla

I don't think the comparison to hair really works. Godzilla's dorsal plates weren't just growing naturally; they were completely destroyed by MUTO Prime and later grew back. That's very different from simply growing hair.

Not passive since it Godzilla obviously doesn't passively fire atomic breaths everywhere and said non-passive heat also doesn't casually boils the ocean as the profile uses as it's justification for Heat Gen. He never does anything with said heat that's important enough to get the hax qualification unless we should include heat generation for every single character since body heat is a thing. Or space-time manipulation since litterally abything with mass disorts space-time to a degree1. I don't think this is a contradiction. The scan doesn't say Godzilla doesn't use radiation; it says he converts radiation into another form of energy that becomes the Atomic Breath. Radiation is the input, while the beam is the output. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

I agree it isn't passive, but I don't think that's relevant. Heat Generation doesn't have to be passive to qualify. Godzilla still generates extreme heat when using the Atomic Breath, and official material states it reaches at least 20,000 °C. That's clearly not comparable to normal body heat, so I don't see why Heat Generation should be removed.

Another form of energy in the sense of being seperate from the radiation that he usually absorbs, it wouldn't be called "unknown energy" if it wasn't known radiation. It s mutually exclusive because you can't use radiation but another form of energy that's NOT radiation at the same time

I think that's reading more into the scan than it actually says. "Converts radiation into another form of energy" doesn't automatically mean radiation is completely absent afterward. The burden of proof is on you here. If you interpret "another form of energy" as meaning there's absolutely no radiation involved anymore, you'll need a source that explicitly states that. Simply assuming it isn't enough.

Gvk Movie Novelization by Greg Keyes specifically chapter 8, here's my copy for reference

Spoiler: Physical copy not the PDF crap

Idk how im supposed to prove that it's Nathan's statement with plain evidence because this is a 3rd person narration, books/novels ONLY happen through what's essentially statements. It'd be like me asking you to show physical tangible evidence that you can see, you can't exactly 3d print your eyeballs and plug the information into someone's brain, just read the first few pages and you'll get exactly who's POV it is already

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not asking you to prove it's Nathan's POV. I'm asking where Nathan supposedly says it's "only a possibility." Since that's a major part of your argument, could you quote the passage you're referring to?

All of these points rely on the same premise so im gonna debunk that instead of go over each individual point

What you're arguing is essentially like saying that the production of galvanized square steel is not actually made of galvanized square steel, the production of something being from a specific source that's of specific nature naturally entails that the created object shares the fundemental principle, for a few more examples rq: You're arguing nuclear bombs aren't actually nuclear despite them being produced with radioactive material and use nuclear fusion, you're arguing that the chair im sitting on rn isn't made of wood despite being carved from it, you're arguing my crisp 50 euros isn't actually made out of paper despite it litterally being printed paper and so on.

I don't think those comparisons work because they ignore the word "converts." The scan doesn't say Godzilla directly fires the radiation he absorbs; it says he converts it into another form of energy first. That's different from carving wood into a chair or printing on paper, where the material itself doesn't change. If the beam is still supposed to be nothing but radiation after the conversion, that needs supporting evidence.

Adressed this before somewhere at the top, stopped using it after finding the original context

You also just blatantly decided to ignore my point about the fallacy which even if you were right about everything here would still debunk MV having quantum matter manipulation

If you're no longer using Arvid's statement, then that's fine. But I don't think just calling it an "Appeal to Possibility" is enough. You'd need to show that the profile treats a possibility as a confirmed fact, not just an official explanation.

 

[OrianGAME]

I don't think the comparison to hair really works. Godzilla's dorsal plates weren't just growing naturally; they were completely destroyed by MUTO Prime and later grew back. That's very different from simply growing hair.

They were not completely destroyed, the main parts of them were but the fundemental "buds" were still untouched

The same way how your hair keeps growing back after cutting it, Godzilla's "hair follicle" just caused his dorsal plates to grow back, not regenerate them like how you regenerate flesh

I agree it isn't passive, but I don't think that's relevant. Heat Generation doesn't have to be passive to qualify.

That's not the point, the problem is that the profile lists it as passive

• Heat Generation (Passive; Godzilla can boil the water around him

Godzilla still generates extreme heat when using the Atomic Breath, and official material states it reaches at least 20,000 °C. That's clearly not comparable to normal body heat, so I don't see why Heat Generation should be removed.

Not externally nor does he use it in any special way to be considered hax, actual Temp Manipulation has only ever been stated for Godzilla Evolved, an ability he developped because he litterally LACKED the ability to generate heat to counter Shimo's ice hax

First half: GxK Movie Commentary
2nd half: GxK "Godzila Evolved" special on Amazon Prime

I think that's reading more into the scan than it actually says. "Converts radiation into another form of energy" doesn't automatically mean radiation is completely absent afterward. The burden of proof is on you here. If you interpret "another form of energy" as meaning there's absolutely no radiation involved anymore, you'll need a source that explicitly states that. Simply assuming it isn't enough.

It's not an assumption it's litterally the definition of the word

Another is the seperation of a subject for a new one, here, Nathan is seperating tradional radiation to an energy he thinks Godzilla converts to

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not asking you to prove it's Nathan's POV. I'm asking where Nathan supposedly says it's "only a possibility." Since that's a major part of your argument, could you quote the passage you're referring to?

It's in that specific scan, TWICE

Definition of speculated: "form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence."
Definition of perhaps: "used to express uncertainty or possibility."

I don't think those comparisons work because they ignore the word "converts." The scan doesn't say Godzilla directly fires the radiation he absorbs; it says he converts it into another form of energy first. That's different from carving wood into a chair or printing on paper, where the material itself doesn't change. If the beam is still supposed to be nothing but radiation after the conversion, that needs supporting evidence.

The conversion theory itself is just that, a theory. A speculated theory that by definition does not have any firm evidence.

If you're no longer using Arvid's statement, then that's fine. But I don't think just calling it an "Appeal to Possibility" is enough. You'd need to show that the profile treats a possibility as a confirmed fact, not just an official explanation.

It states that, and i quote:

Godzilla uses his radiation to power his Atomic Breath and energy pulse generation, which work in a quantum state

Straight up, no "possibly" mention anywhere it flat out states Godzilla has Quantum hax

I'm assuming that whoever made the profile actually READ the scan used and found the parts it's called speculation/only a possibility so they'd had to have that in mind and still just say MV has Quantum hax anyway with NO justification

 

[AyOgUyS]

OP makes a lot of sense to me. Agree.