Monster Hunter: Low Tier revisions and Kirin discussion

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Alright, so continuation from the last thread involving Large Country Zorah Magdoras. For simplicities sake, Zorah is not going to be a topic for discussion here.

First is the conversation on Low Tiers. It is stated that Agnaktor can trigger Volcanic Eruptions during battles, with other powerful monsters [[1]] as stated here. We also see an instance of this [[2]] here when Brachydios and Agnaktor are fighting each other.

However, it is also argued that Agnaktor triggering the volcanic eruption does not warrant an AP rating equal to the eruption itself. In Mr. Bambu's own words "He's the match to the dynamite, not the dynamite itself".

Because of this, Mr. Bambu suggests that this is an outlier for the low tiers and that low tier monsters are to be changed to 8-B. Anyone who agrees with him can say so in the comments below. _________________________________


Second is the tiering for Kirin.

Mr. Bambu says that Kirin should only be 7-A because of this [[3]] calculation he created, putting it at between 439 Megatons-702 Megatons, while other Elder Dragons and Elder Dragon monsters receive the typical 6-C scaling as a result of Hellblade Glavenus vaporizing mountains.

However, I personally disagree with this. [[4]] In this section of information, it states that Kirin is as powerful as other Elder Dragons, monsters that would naturally receive scaling from Hellblade Glavenus (as it is an Elder Dragon Level Monster). On top of that, [[5]] This shows Kirin staggering Rajang, one of Hellblade's rivals, and forcing it into rage mode almost instantly, something that even Monster Hunters can't do that quickly.

Mr. Bambu claimed that a 7-A character could indeed hurt and stagger a 6-C character while maintaining the ranking of 7-A. I, however, believe otherwise (at least in this case).

If we compare Kirin's suggested high end power as found by Mr. Bambu (702.68 Megatons, or 2940013120000000000 Joules), and compare it to the power output of the mountain vaporizing force used for Elder Dragons/Elder Dragon Level Monsters (2.052e19 Joules, as seen here [[6]]), we see that Kirin would be equal to only 14% of the Rajang's maximum power (I used this percentage calculator [[7]]). In my opinion if is Kirin only equal to 14% of Rajang's power, Kirin would have been completely unable to stagger Rajang and force it into Rage Mode in a shorter amount of time than a Monster Hunter could.


Thoughts on both discussion points would be appreciated, and please remember to explain your points in detail as to avoid confusion.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

On this part, I'd need to do some calcs. 8-B is just my estimate by eyeballing some feats (making low-end tornadoes, spewing lava and being covered in lava, and so on). But yeah. 7-C should be disregarded, unless we want to add something for Agnaktor like "7-C with volcanoes".

All non-deviant Elders should scale reliably to 7-A. If possibly 6-C is something you'd like to add, I'd be okay with it. But I don't think just flat out 6-C is a fair enough rating. I said Deviants are superior. Other elders would scale to 7-A, though if the Kushala feat you linked yields 6-C, I'll gladly pull back on this statement.

And... no. A car going 14% of the other car's speed will certainly impede it. A planet 14% of the mass of another planet will do damage. I don't see the issue here, that is a sizable percentage.

Additionally: The Hunter takes many hits to force it into rage mode. As in, each hit would be less than 1% of the Rajang's health. So it makes sense Kirin does it faster.

 

[Antvasima]

I am personally fine with Mr. Bambu's conclusions.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Following. And I like Bambu's conclusion. I'm gonna request Dalamadur's size found in Rotten Vale to see the PSI it can deal.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I don't think calcing Dalamadur's size from the Rotten Vale is gonna add much as it is. Dalamadur is already 6-C/6-B.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Sorta in agreement with Gimmy, though if you wanna try, feel free. Rotten Vale may be the size of a country on the map, but the bits we can access are relatively small in comparison.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Real talk though, for the lower tier monsters, what of the MCB Brachy thing that I posted in the last thread? Does that add anything here?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. ****, mixed Gimmy with Jibbs. I blame society.

2. Looking at the MCB thing, and right now, I can recalc it.

According to you guys, Brachy is 17.114 meters long. Rescaling your image provided, we have a diameter of 759 Pixels. It oges a bit off screen, but should be close enough.

198 Pixels = 17.114 meters

1 Pixel = 0.0864 meters

Diameter of Blast = 65.578 meters, radius of 32.789.

R = Y^1/3 x 0.28

R = Radius in KM

Y = Yield in kilotons

Plugging in 0.032789, we get a value of 1.82 Tons of TNT. Building level+. Sorry.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

omegalul dude it's cool, I like being able to whip that joke out whenever possible.

That being said, If that's really the case, I guess that's how it is. Building Level low tiers looks fine I suppose.

I will admit part of me is still skeptical about the whole 7-A Kirin thing, partially because Oroshi Kirin is 6-C and Kirin's subspecies and is not explicitly stated to be any stronger than Kirin, among a few other things. Then again, if everyone else is fine with it, then that's just how it is.

 

[Antvasima]

You need an accepted calculation blog to link to though.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Ant for which part? The 7-A bit is on the way to being accepted, I've personally sent Darkanine the backings for the height used. Though, again, this might be immaterial, Kushala's feat looks pretty impressive. To be clear, Kushala also generally creates storms and tornadoes and the like pretty casually, though his storms are not as violent as Kirin's.

 

[Antvasima]

According to you guys, Brachy is 17.114 meters long. Rescaling your image provided, we have a diameter of 759 Pixels. It oges a bit off screen, but should be close enough.

198 Pixels = 17.114 meters

1 Pixel = 0.0864 meters

Diameter of Blast = 65.578 meters, radius of 32.789.

R = Y^1/3 x 0.28

R = Radius in KM

Y = Yield in kilotons

Plugging in 0.032789, we get a value of 1.82 Tons of TNT. Building level+. Sorry.

This. Although if it is already a part of a blog post, it should be fine.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oh. That? I'm not too worried about that, unless the other feats I have eyeballed don't go as high as expected. I know for a fact Barroth is 8-C, Diablos one-shots Barroth, and Diablos isn't even the top of the food-chain.

Although, Ant, you know VSBW better than I do. Is there any calc group member that could reliably help on a couple of feats? I'm looking at Lavasioth for this and it could be a really solid feat for Low-Tiers, since that thing swims in lava and takes no damage (and can spit impressive globs of the stuff, too).

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Does rare species and variants like Savage Deviljho scale to deviant species?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if you need help with performing more difficult calculations, DontTalkDT, Executor N0, and Antoniofer might be able to help.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Reinhard Deviljho is a special case anyways since, to my knowledge, it scales to 6-C in base (due to Rajang).

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Unless specifically stated to be on the level of an Elder Dragon (AKA an "Elder Dragon Level Monster"), a variant or subspecies does not scale.

For example, while Azure Rathalos is stated to have more physical strength than a normal Rathalos, it's likely not that much stronger than it (Therefore Azure would still be around 8-C or so). Whereas Silver Rathalos has been stated to be on the same level as Elder Dragons.

That being said, we'd still need to determine if they make it to 7-A or 6-C.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Well, Jho and Rajang are one of the ED level monsters. And Savage Pickle>Normal Pickle

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

And the are stated to be on the same level as Hellblade Glavenus, who does the mountain vaporization feat, meaning they likely scale to it. On top of the, all we know is that Savage Jho is stronger than normal Jho. We don't know by how much, but still.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Anyone on here got any calcs they wanna toss into the ring? We're at High 8-C rn from scaling to Barroth, but I'm pretty sure Diablos and anything above should be 10x that since Diablos can one-shot the guy.

(That is, assuming my calcs are accepted).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oh. Hey, Gimmy, do we know what Uragaan or Radobaan are made of? Their rolling attacks could give a super solid KE if I could get a gif or video from a good point of view.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Honestly not much of an idea, but like, Uragaan specifically is a weird one

It appears in the Elder's Recess, where only super powerful monsters are known to dwell (excluding Elder Dragons of course), meaning that Uragaan is a powerful monster. On top of that, it is said that it's so big that Deviljho will give them their space, as stated here [[1]] (Should be noted that the article here heavily implies that this is simply because Uragaan is as big as Deviljho, if not bigger, and Deviljho has a hard time hunting targets of comparable size). However, it is also never referred to as an "Elder Dragon Level Monster", which may imply that it is indeed not on the same level as Jho after all.

Aside from all of that, all I can find on Uragaan's hide is that it carries "rocks". The chin specifically is made by melting down a bunch of unnamed minerals, which makes it hard to really gauge the actual materials in it or the weight of it.

As for Radobaan, there isn't a whole lot known for it at the moment, so it's hard to say. All I can gather is that it is slightly smaller than Uragaan, and therefore slightly more agile/faster.

Also, IDK if 10x stronger is a legit way to gauge Diablos as that's simply an assumption. I say something more along the lines of "At least Building Level+, likely higher".

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Also, just remembered this, but apparently Lavasioth is just as fast as Agnaktor, but that's about it. I'll look more into it later.

[[1]]

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Wait.

We consider Kirin to be MHS+ because it is one with lightning?

That needs a revision, as it is a VERY hazy statement. I'm working on the low-tier calcs, but Kirin does manipulate CtG lightning, calc against that for speed rather than just using poetic speech for speed. That's like as weak of a statement as one can get.

Gonna go back to the feat search now.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I mean I do have this btw

Also ThePerpetual, back in the day, eyeballed Kushala Daora dispersing the storm in MH4U at Mach 150 or so, if that means anything.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This took a lot longer than it was worth, but we do have one High 8-C calc and one 8-B calc along with a shit-ton of other calcs. Lavasioth has been low-balled into the ground for the purposes of this, and I have yet to try my hand at that thing spitting lava, as that would also yield a high value.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Commented

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

[[1]] By the way we get some really good shots of Barioth just firing off multiple small-scale tornados, so we could probs calc those.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

HERE COMES BLOG NUMBER TWO...

(no but seriously if we can get at least like 5 more feats for low-tiers I'll make "Monster Hunter Calc Dump II: The Dumepening")

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

[[1]] Zinogre smashes this giant rock to bits. I know it's hard to get a proper angle on it, so what you would need to do is find a video of someone fighting zinogre in this area and find the size of the rock that way. Since nothing is left of the structure afterwards aside from dust, maybe pulverization could be used?

[[2]] Gammoth is super large, and was able to briefly act as a home for three other human-sized monsters, so I imagine it could be Building Level via size if anything. Also, it can apparently [[3]] One shot predators in its territory, which can include Zamtrios and possibly Tigrex. [[4]] Also stated here that it is capable of lifting and throwing large Flying Wyverns.

[[5]] Rust Duramboros is massive, that's the short of it.

I'll try to find more stuff later.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

[1] I think this Najarala feat might help. He created shockwaves that easily pulverized small rocks.

[2] Also this Frenzied Tigrex destroyed tree walls like nothing.

[3] Gravios cut the ground in half with beam.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I think I'm about to make the second blog for these feats, after I do it, we definitely need to get these looked at properly, and finally put through the revisions.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The Monster Hunter calc dump was accepted by Darkanine, putting them at 8-B at 20+ tons. I'll get to work on these other calcs, completely forgot about this thread.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

So, can we downgrade the profiles now?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

In theory yes just in time to not be in the 8-B tournament but I'd rather wait to see if the above feats grant some upgrade so we don't need another CRT.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Goddamit. I want em to be in 8-B tournament ovo.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1986583?useskin=oasis

I made some stuff for Fatalis.

 

[Antvasima]

If Darkanine has accepted the calculations, they should be fine to use.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

He has, yes. He made a note for the 9-B calc but that is literally the most insignificant one, so... not too worried about it.