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But my point still stands.
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Mogura Kugurugi verses Giorno Giovana
- Thread starter The_King_of_Prudence
- Start date
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Knock Knock.Standuser081 said:
Whose There?
The note on his profile.
It is unknown, and because of how fate manip works, the only possible outcome of any situation for someone in the loop is death. It does not need to be maintained
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Nah, because it technically isn't incap if frequent action is required within the time frame.TacticalNuke002 said:
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Giorno isn't really doing anything tho.
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But GER is, which is a facet of his being acting on his bahalf even if it is without his knowledge
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GER is equipment. For example, suppose I put you inside a insta-self-repairing cage. You can break it easily but can't step out quickly enough before it reforms itself. You can try repeatedly to break out but it isn't working. If this situation is an incap, GER's automatic willpower reset should be too.
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Please give me scans proving beyond doubt that Giorno lost GER. Also, assuming that you are right and GER doesn't need to maintain, who the hell keeps resetting the deaths?Iapitus The Impaler said:
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GER comes from a piece of his soul. This again comes down to automatic vs Passive. If I was a cyborg that had a second AI that would automatically reform that cage, then that is not passive and would reset the incap timer. If I had a second being that I deployed and I could leave there to reform it over and over for 24 hours without me or anything in reliance on me to reset it, then it would not reset the timer
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Still doesn't change the fact that GER is standard equipment and has the ability to think on it's own.
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Stands are "equipment" in the same way that a 3rd mechanical arm is equipment, and that is to an even greater degree I would say. If you took GER or GE away from Giorno, as in removed it from his being, he would literally keel over and be brain dead
Unless you are one of the special stands, they are completely a part of their users existence
Unless you are one of the special stands, they are completely a part of their users existence
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Like I said, GER has a mind of it's own. It doesn't need Giorno commanding it to act.
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I know, its automatic, but it is not passive.
Let me ask you this. If you froze New Moon Pucci in Ice that he could not get out of, but he was still conscious. He simply could not move or act on his own in any capacity. However, C-Moon could still remain active and fighting his target. 24 hours pass, and his opponent is still fighting C-Moon, but Pucci can still not do anything. Has Pucci's opponent won the fight via incapacitation despite his stand that can function completely automatically still being active?
Let me ask you this. If you froze New Moon Pucci in Ice that he could not get out of, but he was still conscious. He simply could not move or act on his own in any capacity. However, C-Moon could still remain active and fighting his target. 24 hours pass, and his opponent is still fighting C-Moon, but Pucci can still not do anything. Has Pucci's opponent won the fight via incapacitation despite his stand that can function completely automatically still being active?
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But the difference is that Mogura can't do anything, other than try and fail.
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The question above is not directed at you, Tactical, but I think I would like your answer to the question as well
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It's not incon as Pucci is still able to harm his opponent and use his equipment (C-Moon). Mogura, on the other hand, literally can't even raise her finger.
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I don't think it's incon because Pucci can still use his Stand. Stands should be considerd most of a fighter's ability considering that most Stand users are normal humans without them.
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@stand user
So being able to harm his opponent with his stand counts when its in his favor, but when Giorno is repeatedly effecting his target, it doesn't reset the timer. that's inconsistent
And if you work off the idea that it is just "the ability to do harm" then Mogura still can do stuff to him technically. If he tries to kill her, then Nothing may make it so that he never summoned his stand. He summons it again, but she now has the ability to act more
Either way, this is a stomp if it works the way you guys interprit, and its a stalemate if she can
So being able to harm his opponent with his stand counts when its in his favor, but when Giorno is repeatedly effecting his target, it doesn't reset the timer. that's inconsistent
And if you work off the idea that it is just "the ability to do harm" then Mogura still can do stuff to him technically. If he tries to kill her, then Nothing may make it so that he never summoned his stand. He summons it again, but she now has the ability to act more
Either way, this is a stomp if it works the way you guys interprit, and its a stalemate if she can
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- Thread starter
- #58
What would happen if Giorno didn't have requiem?
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He'd get beaten up by higher tier attacks most likely. Although he does have some options like sensory overload or attack reflecting animal spam but I wouldn't fancy his chances.
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- Thread starter
- #60
He does blitz.
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@Iap That's because in your scenario, Pucci is the victim. I would really say that same thing if Giorno was in Pucci's position.
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Why does who is in the victim possision matter? Either way, you say that action resets the timer
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Difference is, Mogura doesn't have an automatic stand that can fight for her.
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That's not the point. Put it like this, here is the principle of incapacitation:
With no action from you nor your opponent, they can bring you no harm within a 24 hour time span. If C-Moon acting on behalf of Pucci counts as reseting the timer on incapacitation, then why does GER acting on behalf of Giorno not count as reseting the timer on incapacitation?
With no action from you nor your opponent, they can bring you no harm within a 24 hour time span. If C-Moon acting on behalf of Pucci counts as reseting the timer on incapacitation, then why does GER acting on behalf of Giorno not count as reseting the timer on incapacitation?
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Difference also is, Giorno can go about with his day to day life while Mogura is stuck in place and can't do a thing.
That being said, this is likely a stomp.
That being said, this is likely a stomp.
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She isn't stuck in place. She can go about her life, except that she lacks the will to protect herself from Giorno. She can eat and go stuff. If he tries to attack her, then GER will be either erased or undeployed to the point where it was never summoned, which means she will regain her will power. Neither can properly do harm to the other, which means it is inconclusive
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- Thread starter
- #67
What if Giorno just leaves her there, with no willpower?
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Then that is inconclusive, because neither can or has finished the other off
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Is that really necessary tho? She's incapable of harming him. That should be enough (for a stomp).
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She is also incapable of harming her. Well, there is a chance GER will get erased if he tries to attack her, but other than that, neither has any way to actually do any damage
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- Thread starter
- #71
She also cannot do anything else.
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She can walk around and stuff. Just because she doesn't have the will to fight Giorno, doesn't mean she can't eat or anything
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- Thread starter
- #73
She has no willpower at all.
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Counts as incap actually since she has no will to fight or do harm to Giorno
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Even without will power, Diavolo still had enough will to at least get out up out of the water. Basic self preservation when not against Giorno isn't negated, just cuz you have no will power. Besides, even if she just lies on the ground staring at the sky, she isn't going to die within the time frame that it takes for it to be not an inconclusive. Neither can do meaningful harm to the other in any way
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The Will Power negation does not last long enough to fully incap. It doesn't last for 24 hours on its own. He also cannot do any meaningful harm to her, so in essence it comes down to both of them just kinda sitting there. The only thing that will happen when he tries to attack her is at best get his stand erased, which brings her back into action only for him to resummon his stand and they are back at square one.Xtasyamphetamine said:
This is basically a fight between someone who doesn't care enough to harm the other, and someone who cannot harm the other. The match comes out to inconclusive
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Voting for GER since he can keep incapping her
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Repeated means that he can only hold her down, but not keep her down long enough to actually win
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Only GE has life abilities, not GER
