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- #121
Tatsumaki will get affected if she get hit in her head while there is no such thing for mob
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Mob VS Tatsumaki (REMATCH)
- Thread starter Shubham_Sonsurkar
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Yes, I suppose. Honestly what's so hard to grasp about this. Even if we ignored everything else about Mob's abilities, we still end up with him beating her up before he runs out of energy. Hell, Mob himself has far greater experience fighting equal opponents so I'm not sure what angle you could look at that make this inconclusive.Shubham Sonsurkar said:
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Really, cause according to most people here Mob also curbstomps with equal stats due to all of his hax abilities, which as follows includes absorbing her TK along with all energy in the surrounding area, copying her abilities such as her passive ability to redirect psychic energy, and hell, Mob has bother better speed and lifting strength feats. And Unlike Mob Tats is incapable of attacking and defending at the same time, has lower stamina (or whatever) and loses psychic power when struck hard enough on the head. With everything taken into account, Tats only significant advantage his her AP.
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Welp
Tatsu made High 6-C feat by casual TK
???% Mob made 7-A+ feat by existing
Tatsu made High 6-C feat by casual TK
???% Mob made 7-A+ feat by existing
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Sometimes AP is all that matters. If she were hundreds of time stronger then she would have destroyed him in an instant. Mob can't absorb her energy anymore considering how much of it their is compared to his own power. And again, ONE was most likely talking about raw physical statistics anyway. His speed, lifting strength and stamina aren't at all obvious in the manga for ONE to have considered them. Hell, his power mimicry is from extrapolation not something blatantly stated in the story at all.
It's decisive with the scaling and a stomp without it. And even then, it doesn't render the statement as any less valid.
It's decisive with the scaling and a stomp without it. And even then, it doesn't render the statement as any less valid.
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Except AP wouldn't matter when Tats can't fire her raw psychic energy the same way as Mob does with it instead only translating to throwing large objects or her psychic shield. Tats wouldn't be able to crush or even pin him due to Mob's higher lifting strength leaving her only attack option to chuck rocks at him, and the insane difference in speed makes it very unlikely he'd ever be hit. And as shown with the giant broccoli, Mob wouldn't have to absorb all that energy into himself and simply have it transferred out somewhere else, if his ??? absorbtion limit is even that low. The result of her losing stamina remains the same. The fact also remains that Tats can't attack and defend at the same time, so either she's always stuck on the defensive or whenever she does decide to attack she's left wide open for Mob to sneak in with his superior speed and either one shot her, or just simply hit her on the head and dramatically reduce her psychic power.
Sorry but how do you extrapolate ONE's statement as solely referring to the two's raw psychic output? You want to make it out as if ONE is one hundred percent certain on both characters AP in scientific terms or even be aware of the scaling between to completely unrelated verse's, yet in the same breath are suggesting that he's apparantly so unknowledgeable that he wouldn't have taken the two's speed, lifting strength, stamina and other hax abilities into account. That makes no sense.
Sorry but how do you extrapolate ONE's statement as solely referring to the two's raw psychic output? You want to make it out as if ONE is one hundred percent certain on both characters AP in scientific terms or even be aware of the scaling between to completely unrelated verse's, yet in the same breath are suggesting that he's apparantly so unknowledgeable that he wouldn't have taken the two's speed, lifting strength, stamina and other hax abilities into account. That makes no sense.
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The statement refers to their physical statistics, which is why we scale all of them to each other bar range and stamina, perhaps I was not clear. Take away those advantages and ???% can't really do anything. His lift strength isn't even superior considering the statement of her lifting City Z would put it far above Mob's.
And scaling exists. We don't need to know the exact AP values when we already have something that allows for comparison for either of them. Garou and Boros are in the exact same situation as is any verse that relies on scaling. This statement isn't any less valid than those cases at all.
And scaling exists. We don't need to know the exact AP values when we already have something that allows for comparison for either of them. Garou and Boros are in the exact same situation as is any verse that relies on scaling. This statement isn't any less valid than those cases at all.
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It being a toss up....doesn't mean that it isn't possible to determine who wins. This fight isn't even that desicive, it's just that ???% can wear her down enough to win the fight more often than not. This has already been brought up twice now and any downgrade was rejected but if you feel that it shouldn't apply then by all means, make yet another CRT.YungManzi said:
Make one for Garou and Boros as well if you can since their's is literally the exact same statement.
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There is nothing that suggests ONE's statement was solely referring to AP. ONE was answering a question about who would win in a fight, such a thing is not solely dependant on AP as a factor. Ignoring all of Mob's advantages to would allow him to contend with her despite possessing lower AP doesn't change that. I'll give you that Tat's would be comparable to Mob in lifting strength considering both their feats are within the bounds of Class G, but considering the fact that Mob performed said feat whilst at only 100% would push his lifting strength even further. Either way, its at most a stalemate that would be Tats' only other advantage outside of raw AP.
"Garou and Boros are in the exact same situation"
This is a false equivalency, aside from the obvious fact that the latter example is referring to scaling between the same verse, but Garou doesn't possess a level of hax that would help him overcome the even larger difference in AP, unlike what it is with Mob and Tats.
Genuine question; With equalised AP, what are Tats' actual wincon's in this fight, given all of Mob's hax abilities? Every point brought up with this in mind puts this into far more than simple decicive category, bordering on near stomp as far as I'm concerned.
"Garou and Boros are in the exact same situation"
This is a false equivalency, aside from the obvious fact that the latter example is referring to scaling between the same verse, but Garou doesn't possess a level of hax that would help him overcome the even larger difference in AP, unlike what it is with Mob and Tats.
Genuine question; With equalised AP, what are Tats' actual wincon's in this fight, given all of Mob's hax abilities? Every point brought up with this in mind puts this into far more than simple decicive category, bordering on near stomp as far as I'm concerned.
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1. The LS feat only scales to ???% and maybe 100% Toichiro. Mob is completely inferior to either of them at 100% so he only scales to the Class M feat. I tried to upgrade his LS on similar grounds but it got rejected. Tats LS according to a rough calc would be borderline Class T. So with unequalized statistics, Tatsumaki rips him apart with a thought.
2. Mob. Has. No. Hax. His only "hax" abilities are power mimicry, which would allow him to even the playing field and absorption, which isn't instantaneous and still allows Tatsumaki to strike him with either blasts of telekinetic force or large objects before he drains her completely.
3. The situation is exactly the same. Both scale to a statement of a fight between them being a toss up but we can still determine a winner should we pit them against each other. This was brought up on both the upgrade thread and the attempted downgrade thread. I already addressed how Mob doesn't have hax, is out-ranged and can't overcome the power difference. If we are downgrading Mob then Garou is going back to High 6-C.
4. Her win-con is just striking him with psychically enhanced blows, same for Mob. It's just that ???% can put her down before she can him for already aformentioned reasons. Nothing haxxed or explicitly in favor of Mob.
But if you want, make the second CRT on this matter. By all means.
2. Mob. Has. No. Hax. His only "hax" abilities are power mimicry, which would allow him to even the playing field and absorption, which isn't instantaneous and still allows Tatsumaki to strike him with either blasts of telekinetic force or large objects before he drains her completely.
3. The situation is exactly the same. Both scale to a statement of a fight between them being a toss up but we can still determine a winner should we pit them against each other. This was brought up on both the upgrade thread and the attempted downgrade thread. I already addressed how Mob doesn't have hax, is out-ranged and can't overcome the power difference. If we are downgrading Mob then Garou is going back to High 6-C.
4. Her win-con is just striking him with psychically enhanced blows, same for Mob. It's just that ???% can put her down before she can him for already aformentioned reasons. Nothing haxxed or explicitly in favor of Mob.
But if you want, make the second CRT on this matter. By all means.
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1. Then that needs to be changed immediatly because that absolutely makes no sense considering 100% Mob was the one who performed the feat.
2/3. What the hell are you talking about; The ability to suck out both an opponents and surrounding energy to increase your stamina whilst decreasing there's, as well as being able to redirct stronger psychic waves with a psychic tornado (via his copying abilities) are an at minimum impressive level of hax that would bascially prevent him from being instakilled one shot from higher AP. With stats equalised, abilities like this are stretching this fight into stomp territory. Its not even his hax that allow him to contend, Tats' inability to defend and attack simultanously puts her at a disadvantage when you take Mob's insane speed difference into account.
4. Tats doesn't attack with psychically enhanced blows, her main attack option his chucking large objects at her opponents, or TK crushing them. usually against opponents with hilariously lower speed stats. But Mobs speed would make him nigh untouchable to Tats, even one shot worthy AP is going to struggle with that.
I would make a CRT about it if I could be asked, but knowing how people are with this subject, I really just couldn't be bothered to be honest. Don't mind me tho, I'm honestly just mildly venting at this point.
2/3. What the hell are you talking about; The ability to suck out both an opponents and surrounding energy to increase your stamina whilst decreasing there's, as well as being able to redirct stronger psychic waves with a psychic tornado (via his copying abilities) are an at minimum impressive level of hax that would bascially prevent him from being instakilled one shot from higher AP. With stats equalised, abilities like this are stretching this fight into stomp territory. Its not even his hax that allow him to contend, Tats' inability to defend and attack simultanously puts her at a disadvantage when you take Mob's insane speed difference into account.
4. Tats doesn't attack with psychically enhanced blows, her main attack option his chucking large objects at her opponents, or TK crushing them. usually against opponents with hilariously lower speed stats. But Mobs speed would make him nigh untouchable to Tats, even one shot worthy AP is going to struggle with that.
I would make a CRT about it if I could be asked, but knowing how people are with this subject, I really just couldn't be bothered to be honest. Don't mind me tho, I'm honestly just mildly venting at this point.
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1. Are you talking about the Broccoli feat? Cause that was performed by, well, the Broccoli. My argument was that since it was grown and performed the feat using Toichiro's power, he and Mob should scale to Class G. Dargoo pointed out how Toichiro could scale but Mob wouldn't as he's far too inferior to Toichiro to move past Class M. Since ???% is obviously far superior to Toichiro, he would be the only form that scaled. According to him at least.
2. His copying abilities aren't passive and require him seeing the ability and understanding it. Tatsumaki isn't bringing the whirlwind out immediately against a weaker opponent and ???% has no durability negating abilities of his own to harm Tatsumaki. The only argument one could make is if his absorption in this form didn't have an upper limit then he could just drain Tatsumaki completely over time. That seems like a bit of an assumption though since his best feat is absorbing energy from his surrounding atmosphere but I could be wrong, idk.
Anyway, this won't go anywhere and honestly both of us are getting tired of this. Let's just call it quits until you ever get around to making a CRT. You did have somewhat of a point regarding his powers turning the battle in his favor to a degree.
2. His copying abilities aren't passive and require him seeing the ability and understanding it. Tatsumaki isn't bringing the whirlwind out immediately against a weaker opponent and ???% has no durability negating abilities of his own to harm Tatsumaki. The only argument one could make is if his absorption in this form didn't have an upper limit then he could just drain Tatsumaki completely over time. That seems like a bit of an assumption though since his best feat is absorbing energy from his surrounding atmosphere but I could be wrong, idk.
Anyway, this won't go anywhere and honestly both of us are getting tired of this. Let's just call it quits until you ever get around to making a CRT. You did have somewhat of a point regarding his powers turning the battle in his favor to a degree.
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1. You'll have to excuse me as I haven't seen anything past season 2, but according to Mob's page the feat was performed by Psycho helmet. What's the....scaling chain there?
2. I'm not even arguing that his absorbtion is limitless, cause it obviously isn't. In fairness the point in which he showcased an upper limit was when he was at 100%, but even still. What I am saying is that even with a limit to his absorbtion he could simply suck some of her energy one piece at a time and simply transfer it elsewhere, or even use it against her. After a long battle Tats would have too much of her energy drained for her to continue. Again, with his speed advantage the likelehood of being hit whilst doing this is very unlikely. I'll give you the point on his copying not being passive, but the thing is that Tats' psychic whirlwind is passive, she's doing it at a constant rate whilst not even being aware that she's doing so. Mob could easily observe said psychic whirlwind buzzing around her and just copy it from there.
Anyway, I'm also tired of this to be honest, so I'll leave it here.
2. I'm not even arguing that his absorbtion is limitless, cause it obviously isn't. In fairness the point in which he showcased an upper limit was when he was at 100%, but even still. What I am saying is that even with a limit to his absorbtion he could simply suck some of her energy one piece at a time and simply transfer it elsewhere, or even use it against her. After a long battle Tats would have too much of her energy drained for her to continue. Again, with his speed advantage the likelehood of being hit whilst doing this is very unlikely. I'll give you the point on his copying not being passive, but the thing is that Tats' psychic whirlwind is passive, she's doing it at a constant rate whilst not even being aware that she's doing so. Mob could easily observe said psychic whirlwind buzzing around her and just copy it from there.
Anyway, I'm also tired of this to be honest, so I'll leave it here.
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Just as SuperAPM said Mob doesn't need to absorb all her power and I don't understand why people think Mob will try to absorb everything like there is no such rule that Mob must absorb all her energy like he can take as much as he wants, hence drainging her overtime and Mob can fight will protecting himself and if I am correct Tatsumaki cannot do that. And he can do all this in 100%
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reasons?Phoenks said:
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This was going to happen sooner or later.
And even if they will hit eachother with attack having quite similar AP, Tatsumaki will still lose her strength before Mob as the fight goes on Mob can just absorb her psychic energy whenever he needs it. Amd evem if one of Mob's barrier breaks he can create another immediately
And even if they will hit eachother with attack having quite similar AP, Tatsumaki will still lose her strength before Mob as the fight goes on Mob can just absorb her psychic energy whenever he needs it. Amd evem if one of Mob's barrier breaks he can create another immediately
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I would argue incon if stats were unequalized. In that instance Tats would effortlessly have one shot worthy AP and higher lifting strength, she'd only need one attack to end it. But Mobs insane speed advantage makes it extremely difficult for Tats to even perceive him. Add to that his ability to slowly suck away her energy bit by bit as well as deflecting her psychic energy with the psychic whirlwind he'd get by copying from tats, alongside Tats' weakness of being unable to attack and defend simultanously, all give Mob a very decent chance of winning this fight inspite of the insane AP disadvantage.
With equalised stats, I genuinly don't know what Tats is supposed to do. Both counter each other with their psychich whirldwind, and Mob is still able to suck her energy dry overtime and may end it even quicker if he takes her off guard whilst trying to attack, or at the very least strike her hard enough in the head. At this point Mob is exactly the same as Tats but with more potent abilities, and is bordering on stomp.
With equalised stats, I genuinly don't know what Tats is supposed to do. Both counter each other with their psychich whirldwind, and Mob is still able to suck her energy dry overtime and may end it even quicker if he takes her off guard whilst trying to attack, or at the very least strike her hard enough in the head. At this point Mob is exactly the same as Tats but with more potent abilities, and is bordering on stomp.
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Mob has the higher stamina by a good amount so if it comes down to who goes down first then it will almost always be Tatsumaki. This fight isn't that close but it isn't a stomp in any way. And Tatsumaki will have to deal with her attacks getting drained and nulled by his copy of her whirlwind.Phoenks said:
Nothing about this match is inconclusive when you can't even come up with an equally likely scenario for her winning.
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Mob should still take this easily
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As the DB was, and it doesn't state so in the OP, the stats aren't equalized. Tatsumaki should win this. Having a wider variety of abilities doesn't mean he can overcome her power and speed advantage.
Tatsumaki has a much higher known level of power than Mob's proven absorbtion cap has been shown at, since he does have one. Tatsumaki has shown absolutely no qualms about killing her opponents once they are vunlerable like he would be.
There seems to be some mistaken belief by some people that, because she can tend to be arrogant, that she's part of the trope of anime character that toys with their opponents. The reality is that tends to be pretty much as far from the truth as possible, and she finishes off her opponents very often with one blow. Her arrogant comments in the anime come towards the other heroes for not being strong enough to finish off their opponents faster like she is.
Tatsumaki has a much higher known level of power than Mob's proven absorbtion cap has been shown at, since he does have one. Tatsumaki has shown absolutely no qualms about killing her opponents once they are vunlerable like he would be.
There seems to be some mistaken belief by some people that, because she can tend to be arrogant, that she's part of the trope of anime character that toys with their opponents. The reality is that tends to be pretty much as far from the truth as possible, and she finishes off her opponents very often with one blow. Her arrogant comments in the anime come towards the other heroes for not being strong enough to finish off their opponents faster like she is.
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???% blitzes her without the equalized statistics. She's the one that scales to him in this category not the other way around. So it's literally her trying and failing to land an attack on an opponent that's at least 5 times faster than her. Inconclusive if we go for unequalized statistics.
Not that it matters since this match can't be added.
Not that it matters since this match can't be added.
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Tats' only advantage here his her AP and Lifting Strength. Mob is the one with the speed advantage. By an inredibly wide margin. Making the prospect of tats' ever hitting him very unlikely. Given Tats' inability to attack and defend at the same time Mob can easily sneak up behind her whilst her gaurd is down and either weaken her by tapping her on the head, or just straight up blitzing her to death.
As I've mentioned above, Mob doesn't need to suck every bit of her energy out at once. All he needs to do is psyphon off a bit of her energy at a time, and either transfer it somewhere else or even use it against her. The end result is her being drained of too much energy to continue.
The sad thing about Tats' psychic whirlwind is how easily it can be used against her here. Due to the fact that she's passively using it at a constant rate without even realizing it, Mob can easily observe and copy it for his own uses. This is particularly damning for Tats because the psychic whirlwind is an ability that redirects and repels psychic energy, even those significantly more powerful than those produced by the user themselves. Meaning it can easily reduce the AP discrepency between the two and negates half of Tats' attack option.
As I've mentioned above, Mob doesn't need to suck every bit of her energy out at once. All he needs to do is psyphon off a bit of her energy at a time, and either transfer it somewhere else or even use it against her. The end result is her being drained of too much energy to continue.
The sad thing about Tats' psychic whirlwind is how easily it can be used against her here. Due to the fact that she's passively using it at a constant rate without even realizing it, Mob can easily observe and copy it for his own uses. This is particularly damning for Tats because the psychic whirlwind is an ability that redirects and repels psychic energy, even those significantly more powerful than those produced by the user themselves. Meaning it can easily reduce the AP discrepency between the two and negates half of Tats' attack option.
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