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MLP cosmology size

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Grudgeman1706

Grudgeman1706

VS Battles
Retired
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So I don't know anything about MLP nor will I argue any evidence presented to me but something caught my eye while looking at a particular profile.

And that was we are using the statement of a actor or just an individual part of the MLP series to justify that the [Sun of the MLP verse is the same size as us].

Not only do I know we made a rule adamantly against the idea of justifying a feat or context with the statement of a author.

But the person who we are relying on isn't even the creator, and the answer of "I believe" is not something I think we accept as justification.

Again I won't argue the specific points experts of the series will say. But some clear justification why we accept this when stuff like demonbane and DMC statement were argued relentlessly against(these are just examples of staff and the like being against author statement, not me complaining the outcomes of what we agreed with about the verses as I don't care for either.)
 
To be fair, the way the sun works in MLP really work the way ours does. Otherwise that Twilight scene where she was learning her combined alicorn powers would have destroyed the Earth like 20 times over.
 
I agree with this, the same thing happened with statement from Ben 10, which is Alien X being omnipotent from a author's stalement and no one agreed with it. This is to use the same logic that the community always criticizes.
 
"Not only do I know we made a rule adamantly against the idea of justifying a feat or context with the statement of a author."

We're against using author statements if there's nothing in support of it. Clarifying the context of something like Amy Keating Rogers did here is entirely different.

"But the person who we are relying on isn't even the creator, and the answer of "I believe" is not something I think we accept as justification."

Amy Keating Rogers is one of the writers of MLP and her saying "I believe" at the beginning of her statement doesn't really affect much, as it's still basically saying "Yes". It's not like she's saying "it might be".

Lauren Faust (The show's creator) doesn't actually work on the show anymore and hasn't done so for the last half decade. The writers have been expanding on the series massively ever since she left, so Amy Keating Rogers not being the creator is rather meaningness.

"But some clear justification why we accept this when stuff like demonbane and DMC statement were argued relentlessly against(these are just examples of staff and the like being against author statement, not me complaining the outcomes of what we agreed with about the verses as I don't care for either.)"

Demonbane's statements completely contradict the game and Hideki Kamiya is infamous for his non-serious responses on Twitter. Those are very different than this.
 
Well the Star Level is only Hax, that is not actual Attack Potency, also some characters had Large Star Level knowing that our Sun is just Star Level.
 
The Sun is a Sun. I don't even know why this is a point of contention to begin with. In every other series that takes place in a fictional universe, we don't stop and say "What if their sun isn't actually the full size of the sun and their Earth is actually moon sized" or something because that's faulty logic
 
Grudge that statement seems straight forward and legit but the DMC Stuff the person who said it's universe size is consider a troll from my knowledge, not saying it's invalid but you can't blame the staff for arguing against it. Don't know about demonbane.

Basically what Ever said mate.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
My Little Pony has a round planet. Why would the sun be anything but the size of ours?
Click to expand...
Idk I just recall any arguing about this a long time ago, than thinking he probably accepted it because of the author statement so whatever you guys do with this verse is fine with me(like I said it not arguing.) just wanted a simple reason on the justification.
 
Star Level via a specific hax ability (Twilight can move the Sun with ease, BUT this does not seem to translate to Destructive Abilities)
 
Apex PredatorX said:
Star Level via a specific hax ability (Twilight can move the Sun with ease, BUT this does not seem to translate to Destructive Abilities)
Click to expand...
No it does. The Alicorns move celestial bodies through Telekinesis powered by their magic, the same magic that they can use for energy beams. It scales.
 
The default position for all verses like Dark said is to assume their celestial bodies are the size of our own until stated or proven otherwise. The author basically stated something we should've already assumed to begin with. No need to change anything cause "it's an author statement."
 
Darkanine said:
The Sun is a Sun. I don't even know why this is a point of contention to begin with. In every other series that takes place in a fictional universe, we don't stop and say "What if their sun isn't actually the full size of the sun and their Earth is actually moon sized" or something because that's faulty logic
Click to expand...
Because it doesn't work the way our sun works? Because it revolves around the Earth instead of the other way around? Because it can't physically circle the earth without assistance from an outside source, which means it doesn't have a orbital pattern like our Sun, making it not in any possible way be representable about how anything we know about our Solar System works? The fact that a bunch of starving Unicorns in ancient time where able to raise and lower the Sun all the time, despite that being so far out of their AP level it's not even funny?

I'm fine if it's confirmed that the Sun is the size of our real sun and whatever, but don't just assume that just because the Sun is called the Sun that automatically makes it the same as our Sun, when every bit of evidence in the Universe contradicts it being even remotely like our Sun. This is the exact same thing people on this site have towards Black Holes, as we don't just take any "black hole feat" as legit if the Black Hole in question doesn't act like a Black Hole would. We don't just say "well it's a black hole, black holes exist in our universe, so don't complain about it" That's the only faulty logic i see.

Also @Matthew... "The planet is round, so the Sun should be same size" i know you probably just worded that wrong... but i don't even want to get into how wrong that entire statement is. Unless you are implying that Round Planets that go around Red Giants don't exist.
 
Its a cartoon man, stuff is going to not make sense.


hell the scaling of each mech in TTGL to one another doesnt make sense.
 
@Jared111

"The fact that a bunch of starving Unicorns in ancient time where able to raise and lower the Sun all the time, despite that being so far out of their AP level it's not even funny?"

It actually took an entire group of unicorn mages, read A Journal of Two Sisters

Secondly, the moon in my little pony is exactly like our moon in size and shape despite it not having any orbital path. This is confirmed in both the comics and flashbacks with Nightmare Moon. So why would the sun be any different?

Thirdly, your black hole comparison is a false equivalency as a black hole requires to demonstrate a lot more properties than simply shine in the sky to be considered a star

"Unless you are implying that Round Planets that go around Red Giants don't exist."

>Idea behing my statement

>Your head

What I meant to say is that since the planet where My Little Pony takes place is round, and also has a realistic moon, there is absolutely 0 reason for you to assume that the sun is anything but similar to our own. Sure, planets can orbit stars larger than our own, but not astronomically smaller. My point is that everything points to the planet, sun and moon of MLP being like our own, despite the difference in rotation.
 
I don't know if this is relevant here, but, didn't Celestia say that raising the moon was "even easier than raising the sun"? This would make sense, since the moon is much, much smaller than the sun.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
@Jared111
"The fact that a bunch of starving Unicorns in ancient time where able to raise and lower the Sun all the time, despite that being so far out of their AP level it's not even funny?"

It actually took an entire group of unicorn mages, read A Journal of Two Sisters

Secondly, the moon in my little pony is exactly like our moon in size and shape despite it not having any orbital path. This is confirmed in both the comics and flashbacks with Nightmare Moon. So why would the sun be any different?

Thirdly, your black hole comparison is a false equivalency as a black hole requires to demonstrate a lot more properties than simply shine in the sky to be considered a star
Click to expand...
1.) An entire group of Unicorn mages would still be a pretty big high end feat for them, especially seeing as no other Unicorn in the entire series has ever shown anywhere near the AP to move anything more than a Mountain... let alone something as big as a Star.

2.) Just because the moon works the same as our moon (which again, seeing how it managed to orbit the planet multiple times in 10 second and not ****** up the planet in numerous ways) doesnt mean the Sun does as well.

The Sun in the series does not in any way work like how a real Sun would, a real Sun does not orbit our earth, nor does it need assistance from a deity to move itself. You are applying real world science to a thing that does not act like the real world thing. It's like trying to argue FTL travel with real world science to something like Superman, when it would be nearly impossible to do so.

Again, if the creators said the Sun is the same size, whatever, it's canon. But don't act that just because a Sun that works completely differently in a fictional setting is called a Sun... means that it is automaticallye exactly like our Sun.

3.) ... I know you are probably just simplying that to make a point... but a Sun does a fuckton more than just "be a shine in the sky" . It is the centerpiece of our entire Solar System, it's gravity is so great it makes planets follow it's orbit, and a bunch of other shit as well that i don't really need to explain because i would hope we understand what a Star is. It's arguably just as complicated, if not more so, than a Black Hole. There are many, MANY, defining features of what we consider a star.

Saying that as long as something floats in the sky and brings light to a world it's automatically just like our giant orb of light is the only false equivalency i see. The MLP Sun is nothing, NOTHING, like our Sun other than it exists in space, it gives light to the world, and its yellow. It doesn't act like our sun in any reasonable way, it doesn't follow any laws of physics, it doesn't make any sense for it to be considered our Sun... so why are you forcing it to be a star when it doesn't act like a Star at all? Stars do not orbit smaller objects with less gravitational pull than it, that's not how the Universe works as we know it, Stars don't need to be moved by other beings.

Also... so saying that because something doesn't look, act, or in anyway resemble a Black Hole, other than it sucks things into itself, and someone called it a Black Hole that is can't be considered like a real Black Hole is fine, but saying that because something doesn't act like, move like, or in anyway resemble how a real Star works other than it shines brightly, its in the sky, and someone called it a Sun and that it shouldn't be considered a real Star is someone not only wrong, but a false equivalency? Sounds off to me.

Also, again, you could have worded that first sentence better because saying "the earth is round, so the sun must be the same size" isn't really expresive of that entire paragraph.
 
@Jared


In Mario Galaxy planets and galaxies are MICROSCOPIC compared to their real life sizes, but mario has MFTL+ speed and stuff basd off those games.
 
@Aqua Mario's galaxies themselves aren't tiny. Just the portions of them in the level you get to play in are (of course you wouldn't be able to travel an actual galaxy in the game) Super Mario Galaxy has shown galaxies and stars which appear accurate to real life ones numerous times. It's not like they don't know what those are.
 
Dino Ranger Black made an extensive thread once regarding Super Mario Galaxy and would clearly know a lot about it.

But let's not try to derail this topic with an entirely unrelated one please.
 
Jared yeah it doesnt orbit MLP's world it is actively CONTROLLED.


We have literally nothing to go on to assume its not the same size other then sterotypical cartoon logic and tropes. Its a fantasy world, two beings controlling the sun and moon is FANTASY.
 
I agree with The Everlasting.
 
"The Planet is like ours, the moon is like ours, but I don't believe the sun is like ours because it'd make the characters too powerful."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Let's see:

MLP takes place in a round planet sometimes called "Earth", which has a sun and moon that look exactly like ours.

We know for a fact that the moon is identical to ours.

Writer said that the sun is the same size as ours.

So what can we conclude?

The obvious conclusion is that the MLP World has similar celestial bodies to ours, but works under a magical fairy-tale logic that enables both sun and moon to orbit around the earth without a problem.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
"The Planet is like ours, the moon is like ours, but I don't believe the sun is like ours because it'd make the characters too powerful."
Click to expand...
Isn't that one of the biggest arguments on this site? That if it seems to outlandish for our characters to do, we generally consider it an outlier or don't use it?

Like the reason we don't allow Normal Mario to be considered Multiverse level despite the fact that he and luigi were able to go toe to toe with Dreamy Bowser in a 2-1 fight, and not only survive multiple attacks from him, but beat him down with raw power?

What about Post-Crisis Superman's OVER 30 Universal feats (moreso than even Pre-Crisis Superman) but we don't use them for his power level because it contradicts everything we know about Post-Crisis Superman's strength and relation to Pre-Crisis characters?

I know this doesn't directly correlate to us saying that the Sun isn't a real Sun, but if Unicorns have never shown any more destructive AP higher than Mountain level (even characters that are supposed to elements of magic and/or captain's of the royal guard) are able to do something that is BILLIONS of times harder to do... that something is not fucky? Especially since it was described (to my knowledge) that Unicorns at the time of Hearth's Warming Eve were not all that up to snuff with nearly starving and freezing to death?

Besides that, i can throw Occam's razor right back at you "If it doesn't act like our Sun, if it doesn't move like our sun, and if doesn't in any way behave like our sun... then it isn't like our Sun." That's far more simple than "It's fantasy world that somehow works like our world, despite not working like our world at all, so the Sun is our Sun."

The planet has never specifically been called Earth as far as i know, other than one mention in that HWE special.

"the moon is identical to our" I actually looked into the specifics of the moon, and not only doesn't it seem inhabitable in the MLP verse (despite the fact that our characters need to breath, and there should be no oxygen on the moon) though i wasn't entirely sure if that was explained away.

But do you also mean the moon, that in this shot in the comic (the one you referred to when saying the Moon was like our's) being small enough to be IN FRONT OF THE CLOUDS?!

https://i.stack.imgur.com/58EnK.png

That definitely doesn't seem like our Moon, because i'm fairly sure that our moon wouldn't fit snuggly behind the clouds, nor be that close to the Earth and barely be that size.

Unless that's some notorious artist's inconsistency (which is the only piece of evidence i can actually find for how big the moon actually is) then no... the moon is not like our moon. Therefore... the Sun couldn't be like our sun.

"writer said that Sun is the same size as our own"

1.) That was amy keating rogers, who as far as i know, is not the official head writer of the series and would have no complete control over what is considered the cosmology of the series. Neither Megan Mcarthy or Lauren Faust (both head writers and Faust being creator) have never come out and said anything about the size.

2.) She didn't say that it was so, she said "i believe the answer to both of those questions is yes", that's barely an answer, and she didn't even seem that sure of it. For all we know she just said it because it's what she thought. She never gave a definitive answer.

Despite all that, i'm fine if that's true. My argument isn't over whether or not Amy Keating Rogers is right or wrong, and if the writers agree that the sun is the same size, i won't argue against it.

MY argument is, is that you are assuming that just because the Sun is called the Sun and some elements of the universe that aren't the sun act realistically to our world, that the Sun, which doesn't, can be considered exactly like ours, despite all evidence (even from the writer herself, who stated the SUN revolved around the EARTH, which does not make sense in any scientific way.) to the contrary.

It seems like a double standard that we throw away other feats for the same exact reason, and yet we are fine keeping this feat just on the basis that it's MLP, so don't question it.
 
Well, I used to think the same way that you do about the MLP verse, but given that this writer comment simply clarified something that could be interpreted either way, and given that moving the Sun is such a recurring part of the show, I eventually relented.
 
I'm sorry to interrupt, but didn't you guys agree that the comics aren't canon on that other thread, and that why Discord isn't Massively FTL+ anymore?
 
Jared1111 said:
Like the reason we don't allow Normal Mario to be considered Multiverse level despite the fact that he and luigi were able to go toe to toe with Dreamy Bowser in a 2-1 fight, and not only survive multiple attacks from him, but beat him down with raw power?
Click to expand...
We don't allow it because the scaling contradicts itself.
 
There is literally no reason to think the sun and moon are different than our own in size. The comics are secondary canon and when contradicted by the show they do not matter. There is a solar eclipse in the series, showing that the moon is big enough to block out the sun. They do not rotate around the earth, they are actively pulled by the Alicorn's telekinesis around the planet. Unicorn mages can be astronimically powerful with proper training. Starlight and Starswirl both showed with enoguh determination and natural talent, you can reach or even surpass an Alicorn's might.

AKR was the closest writer to Lauren Faust and was basically 3rd in command for the show before she got called up to Disney during Season 5.

I suggest we close this thread, we've had enough discussion about this and after 3 years of fighting for this upgrade I'm done going against downplayers.
 
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