Misc Digimon Revisions X

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It's here....finally. Well hopefully all the Digimon pages have been updated the speeds so that we can go about these revisions smoothly. Finally time for number 10 to begin.

How Digimon treat Data
Now Ex JUST made this data blog which details what data is in the Digimon Multiverse and brings something important to light. This is a basic summary of what goes on the files and as such I suggest after you read this thread, you go read the blog.

Now we've been bringing this up on vs thread multiple times, but never had a blog to implement it. So basically, everything is data to a Digimon.....Well that's just a general statement so let me explain what this means. For a Digimon or data in general the Physical World is nothing but "a fragile house of cards". A Digimon can freely manipulate data and that follows to the physical world.

What do I mean by data though?

Well as we would put it, all Digimon can attack the mind, body and soul with their basic attacks as well as control them. This is shown multiple times in the Cyber Sleuth franchise. This is all detailed in the blog.

"Wait, isn't this a verse/Digital World only mechanic?"

Not really. Digimon have shown to be able to manipulate data in the real world and affect it just as they do in their world. Once again, this is explained in the blog.

"How come every Digimon or human in the Digital World are not immediately killed from basic attacks?"

As explained in the blog, Digital Beings in the Digimon franchise have a firewall protecting them from these effects. This means that all Digimon and Digital lifeforms have a natural resistance to Soul and Mind based skills. (Of course many Digimon can bypass this natural resistance). This also explains why when a Digimon is killed by another, they are "deleted", i.e erased.

So TL;DR

All Digimon gain the ability to attack the mind, body and soul directly with their basic strikes. (Similar to how Saint Seiya characters attack atoms and souls directly with theirs) as well as the ability to control them.

All Digimon gain a Resistance to Soul Manipulation and Mind Manipulation

Now I do not know if this scales to Appmon or not.

Kuzuhamon BFR
So this is something from Hacker's Memory that gives Sakuyamon and Kuzuhamon a couple "new" abilities.

Based upon this feat;




Kuzuhamon and by extention Sakuyamon gain both Dimensional BFR and Sense Manipulation.

That's all I'm gonna discuss here honestly. This is due to the first one being a major revision and I don't want to have us worry about 50+ other things on top of this.

 

[Kepekley23]

The meaning of "data" on Digimon can vary. Pretty sure there are multiple times in the series where characters use it to refer to the physical body, as shown in the blog itself. It can also mean "souls", sure, but when it does, the characters explain and specify that. The fact that they have to do this shows that the word "data" by itself doesn't have to include the soul, the mind and etc. Only in specific contexts.

Unless all Digimon have shown the ability to affect souls and minds, with direct feats or statements, I don't think extrapolating from the word "data" is a good idea, in spite of the lack of feats.

The BFR looks good, though.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Actually it does, this was explained by Executor in his previous blog. And Ex also explained this as well. Here is a scan regarding mind





And as In said, this is also why when a Digimon is killed by another Digimon, they are labeled as "Deleted" i.e erased from existence as their mind, body and soul have been destroyed.. Also it explains why Digimon aren't usually effected by this unless the other Digimon has an attack that bypasses their resistance.

 

[Kepekley23]

Uh, that's exactly what I was addressing.

The word data encompassing souls and minds doesn't mean every Digimon that is said to attack "data" is attacking souls and minds.

In Aristotelian physics, for example, almost everything in the universe is made of Aether, an invisible, oxygen-like substance. So, if someone destroyed the universe, they'd be destroying Aether, but if someone destroyed Aether, they wouldn't necessarily have to destroy the universe.

Association fallacy and all.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

However, it is directly shown whenever a Digimon is killed by another Digimon, they are deleted. This directly means their mind, body and soul were destroyed. They aren't just killed. Only reason Digi-Eggs and such are a thing and Digimon are reborn is due to Anubismon reviving them from nonexistence.

A God Man Digimon that guards and supervises the Dark Area. It constantly surveys the Dark Area, to which Digimon that were deleted when their life span finished, or when they were defeated in battle, are ultimately transmitted (and are transmitted there despite Fallen Angel Digimon and their like inhabiting it). As for the Digimon transferred to the Dark Area, if their data is evil, it imprisons them within eternal darkness, but if their data is good, it has the ability to reset them back to a Digitama. It has power as mighty as to decide the rebirth of a Digimon, and furthermore, it has the role of the Digital World's judge.
	~ Anubismon Official Databook​

 

[Kepekley23]

That sounds like a side-effect of a Digimon dying, not an ability they have.

If normal Digimons attack each other all the time and don't die, then chances are they don't have Soul and Mindhax as opposed to every single fodder in the verse having the ability to resist it (and still getting affected by it after they die, apparently)

 

[Kepekley23]

In fact, your last scan proves my point perfectly.

Getting deleted is a natural side-effect of dying. That's why a Digimon gets deleted even after their life span ends naturally.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But I explained why this does not occur. All Digital Beings in Digimon have a firewall protecting them. Ex mention this in his blog.

"As explained, even the mind can be converted into data. For beings made in data no matter the type of data, as long as it is data they may be affected. Thus a Digimon could freely affect the body, soul and mind of any being and this really should occur. The reason why this does not occur normally is because such vital data is protected by a Firewall, say that it would be the resistance of the data beings to protect its structure preventing it from being manipulated freely by other beings. Under normal conditions humans transformed into data would not directly affect the mind and soul of another human being because there is a barrier created to prevent it. So for a human to affect another human being would have to break that barrier which is exactly the service that Hackers do."

 

[Kepekley23]

Here is what your scan says:

"God Man Digimon that guards and supervises the Dark Area. It constantly surveys the Dark Area, to which Digimon that were deleted when their life span finished, or when they were defeated in battle, are ultimately transmitted"

This proves that the erasure isn't an ability every single Digimon has. It is a natural side-effect of the death of a Digimon. It happens whenever they die, be it as their lifespan ends naturally, or in battle.

That firewall scan is:

1. Vague. "Mind" can also mean brain, so further context is needed.

2. Only says "mind", there is nothing suggesting a firewall for souls is present.

So I'd like more scans than just that.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It's obvious that mind means consciousness. It is never implied as "brain", but the mind. The brain is not even mentioned at all. Not to mention it contradicts Digimon Physiology.










Of course Ex has more knowledge on this so we should wait on him.

 

[Kepekley23]

Take a look at the scans.

"I mean, we can't say for sure that a digitalized Consciousness couldn't be influenced by Digimon"

"Mind data is still data, so it's possible for Digimon programs to affect it, pretty much..."

How would this be if there is a firewall naturally protecting Digiminds from such haxes?

Combined with the Anubismon scan that says erasure is a natural effect, yeah, I kinda doubt they have resistance to mind or soulhax. "Firewall" is likely being used in a different context here.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Firstly, thank god someone actually argues with us. Geez, this almost never happens. I was getting worried for a sec. I should note that this stuff, while implied, is a very new concept. And honestly, I am kinda a skeptic on this as well. Ex is the main one with the knowledge for this.

This simply means are Digimon can bypass the firewall. In fact in game you need Digimon to break firewalls. All Digimon can hack and thus they have shown that they can bypass firewalls. They even directly mention the firewall as protection for the mind. This means said firewall is not strong enough to defend against Digimon attempts at mind hacking.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Either way, I'll wait for Ex as he knows more about this than me. So we may have to wait a day...

 

[Kepekley23]

1.

This sca.

It backs up that the word "data" on its own doesn't mean soul or mind, as it is compared to the atomic, solid structure of the universe. A soul and a mind aren't physical things. They are immaterial and abstract.

Only with further context, such as "soul data" or "mind data", or direct statements, does it include these things. So that supports what I said above about not all Digimon being able to affect souls or minds, alongside the scan that reveals their disappearance it's a natural side-effect of death.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I mean, all Digimon can hit souls and nonexistent beings. ovo

But I think you are referring to directly from the body. But in my scans above it also states that mind data is still just data and that Digital Programs can still affect it. Like I said, I'll wait for Ex.

But data has been used to refer to souls and the mind as well multiple times. Although you bring up good point. However, my knowledge on this is very limited. Ex knows everything else (I was skeptical of this as well)

If this ain't accepted..meh...It saves me editing....

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Now I should mention that when there are attacks that destroy all of one's data in which means mind, body and soul and there are attacks that mention only 1's and 0's i.e atoms and such there is indeed a differentiation.

I guess to further support you a bit. Crowmon and WarGrowlmon have attacks that directly destroy 1's and 0's/ atoms. It would be weird for them to suddenly not destroy the mind or soul. So there are good points for both sides. So once Ex comes, we can see where that leads. (Give him, like a day)

 

[Kepekley23]

2.

I've already seen that scan. If I hadn't I wouldn't be arguing.

Anyway, if all Digimons have the ability to bypass this firewall', I find it hard to see how almost no fight in the anime or the series in general shows it. Only the Digimons who are proven and stated to have mindhax abiltiies; and they are never said to go through a "firewall". Pretty much nobody else does in any shape or form.

Also, this firewall would be rather ineffective at its job if even normal Digimons had the ability to bypass it.

It's likely, in my point of view, that said "firewall" is not a defense against mental attacks, but rather a program that keeps the contents of the brain safe and sharpens the mental abilities of a Digimon. And not a vault that outright prevents said attacks, which is never shown.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Because said firewall was just introduced into the series. i.e a retcon.

Either way, read my later comments.

Also, I should note that this is something even the Digimon don't understand. Although right now I agree with you.

 

[Kepekley23]

3.

I'm already aware of the fact data can include soul and minds. I've acknowledged it many, many times by now.

However, the word "data", when thrown there in its own doesn't have to include these things. The default assumption is that, when you attack one's data, you're attacking their physical body. Only if you are stated to attack SOUL data and MIND data would you qualify.

There isn't a single instance of "data" being used to refer to soul and mind where the series doesn't go out of its way to tell the reader or viewer it is referring to such things.

It is why the "I'm destroying his data!" scenes always show a Digimon's body being destroyed, and only the "I'm attacking the soul and mind data" ones show such things being affected.

Now, I know you said we should wait for Ex and that you acknowledged this. I'm just replying to the arguments I see in the order of the posts.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, something I thought to be worthy of note is that, in the gameplay of Cyber Sleuth, the firewalls are portrayed as physical barriers that stop physical attacks, and not attacks that directly target the mind or soul.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Try saying that when it blocks GranDracmon's Eye of the Gorgon. ovo