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Minor Android 18 CRT

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DivineAura44

DivineAura44

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Ribrianne is stated to be possibly 3-A (Fought on about equal terms with suppressed 17). 18 was on par and beat Ribrianne. Right her so honestly she should also get a buff saying "possibly 3-A".
 
Note: Android 18 defeating Lovely Love, Love Ribrianne in one strike is considered both PIS and an Outlier, as 18 was previously portrayed as being able to trade blows with a regular Ribrianne and being restrained by Brianne in her base form.
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Tsk tsk tsk. It was agreed upon ages ago that Android 18 wouldn't scale to Ribrianne's "possibly 3-A" since Ribrianne's power fluctuates throughout the tournament, and 18 does not have enough feats to back up scaling to that.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Tsk tsk tsk. It was agreed upon ages ago that Android 18 wouldn't scale to Ribrianne's "possibly 3-A" since Ribrianne's power fluctuates throughout the tournament, and 18 does not have enough feats to back up scaling to that.
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Android 18 should still scale to Ribrianne's 4-B key. Even if 3-A is an outlier, then she should be at least 4-B

EDIT: Wait, she doesn't have a 4-B key. Nevermind then. Regardless, Android 18 should still somewhat scale to suppressed 17 since she did fought Universe 2 alongside him, lifted Tupper with ease when Base Goku couldn't do it, and held out against Aniraza for a while, only sacrificing herself to save 17 from being eliminated
 
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Nullflowerblush said:
Tsk tsk tsk. It was agreed upon ages ago that Android 18 wouldn't scale to Ribrianne's "possibly 3-A" since Ribrianne's power fluctuates throughout the tournament, and 18 does not have enough feats to back up scaling to that.
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And we have proof that it was lower then when she fought others? Also if she fluctuates why does she only have one Key?
 
We discussed it yes. I still personally think 18 should get the same treatment as Ribrianne and get "possibly 3-A" to, for beating her and having some scaling to 3-A, but she had less other feats of that level than Ribrianne, so it was decided not to upgrade her and just leave a note about it being inconsistent in a split decision. That's what I recall of the thread in a nutshell.
 
SSJRyu1 and DarkDragonMedeus:

So would either of you be willing to write a footnote for the Android 18 page, or should we continue to discuss this issue?

I personally wouldn't mind if she is upgraded though.
 
Well, like I said, I personally do not mind to upgrade Android 18 to Ribrianne's level, but I think that @AKM sama disagrees.
 
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@Antvasima Yes, I think AKM disagrees. Basically myself, you and most of the regulars who are knowledgeable on DB are good with giving 18 "possibly 3-A", I don't recall the input from the other staff who know DB. I would personally add it based on merit of the argument and its level of support, after all it is not even outright 3-A, its possibly 3-A, and she definably can be reasonably argued to scale to that at times, but that's just me.
 
Would giving 18 these statistics cause any scaling problems with other characters?
 
Speaking of which, I'm not sure where Tupper's 4-B tier comes from; I know I proposed a while back that Krillin shouldn't be much weaker than Basil considering Gohan thought Basil and Lavender were two easy outside of poison inducement on the latter but thought Krillin was strong enough to be in the tournament. And Krillin also impressed Goku more than Majin Buu did; though Goku was clearly holding back in both cases. But AKM Sama disagrees with those too. So either Tupper should lose his 4-B and downgraded to "At least High 4-C" like all the other underdogs, or some other 4-B upgrades are in order.

I'm also not against upgrading 18 to possibly 3-A, but AKM Sama and Matt are both very strongly against that idea. And I'd rather not have to deal with arguing against them again. Basically, 18 is clearly a lot stronger than Krillin but a lot weaker than 17 are the obvious statements. And tends to do better against the lower leveled Pride Troopers than a casual Goku; but key word is casual Goku. But she was briefly able to keep up SSG Goku, SSJ2 Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan, and 17 against Anilaza; but that was also considered an outlier. And she goes from struggling against base Ribrianne to being able to stomp full power Ribrianne. So clearly, 18 is the most inconsistent character in Tournament or power to rate. And this is despite how she grew despite little to no training.
 
Antvasima said:
Would giving 18 these statistics cause any scaling problems with other characters?
Click to expand...
Nah, 18 is one of the strongest members of Universe 7 fighters (after goku, vegeta, gohan, frieza and 17), and she constantly fight against characters that both goku and 17 was fighting, despite being ''weaker'', she somehow still can be scaled to it, these events with Ribrianne is a proof tho, and nobody rlly relies her on scaling
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm also not against upgrading 18 to possibly 3-A, but AKM Sama and Matt are both very strongly against that idea. And I'd rather not have to deal with arguing against them again. Basically, 18 is clearly a lot stronger than Krillin but a lot weaker than 17 are the obvious statements. And tends to do better against the lower leveled Pride Troopers than a casual Goku; but key word is casual Goku. But she was briefly able to keep up SSG Goku, SSJ2 Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan, and 17 against Anilaza; but that was also considered an outlier. And she goes from struggling against base Ribrianne to being able to stomp full power Ribrianne. So clearly, 18 is the most inconsistent character in Tournament or power to rate. And this is despite how she grew despite little to no training.
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The other pride troopers were overpowering SSJ Caulifla, and required Controlled SSJ Kale to go Bereserk to win against the 4 of them even though she was also aided by Caulifla. Simply scaling them to High 4-C for no reason makes no sense

Also Base Goku was clearly struggling to lift Tupper and was unable to do so after he became even heavier, while Android 18 had no problem lifting him and eliminating him
 
You also forgot about Piccolo, he's 3-A via being almost as strong as Ultimate Gohan, but 18 is the 7th strongest member of Universe 7.

@Gilad_Hyperstar Also, those parts were also discussed, stacking beams together often multiply power levels exponentially. Such as Spirit Bomb one-shotting the strongest villains despite it just being a fusion of energy from a bunch of regular humans and animals. The lifting example is also a weird scaling method for other reasons.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Don't worry about it, so did most Dragon Ball writers in the past 30 years.
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lmfao
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Anyway, I agree with #18 getting a "Possibly 3-A". To be frank, I've seen characters get outright ratings for much less, let alone a "Possibly". It causes no issues with the scaling chain whatsoever.
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Yeh, indeed, 18 scaling to possibly 3-A won't affect nobody and it won't cause issues
 
17 was later revealed to be stronger than Gohan and Frieza, but initially, Frieza was seen as Goku's equal with Gohan being seen as possibly stronger than Vegeta. But anyway, I think these are going off the semi-off topic territory. The primary focus is 18's tier. Also, AKM sama has been having issues with "At least, possibly tiers" as of late. To paraphrase them, it's a "Petty excuse to not acknowledge the existence of outliers and PIS" or "An appeal to middle ground".

Which I sort of agree on the former, but the latter implies it's actually a good thing. Dragon Ball was supposed to be very linear with its power scaling and it was until Dragon Ball Super came along with 18 being the most all over the place on the list. But I already voiced my thoughts on thinking possibly 3-A is reasonable, but AKM and Matt aren't even okay with that.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Which I sort of agree on the former, but the latter implies it's actually a good thing. Dragon Ball was supposed to be very linear with its power scaling and it was until Dragon Ball Super came along with 18 being the most all over the place on the list. But I already voiced my thoughts on thinking possibly 3-A is reasonable, but AKM and Matt aren't even okay with that.
Click to expand...
Maybe we should ask more staff members about it?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
it's a "Petty excuse to not acknowledge the existence of outliers and PIS" or "An appeal to middle ground".
Click to expand...
Well, the former is just something we're forced to do due to the insanely inconsistent nature of DBS's power scaling and writing, and the latter sounds like the whole motto of the wiki lol, so I don't personally view either as particularly bad options in this case. That's just me though.
 
I talked in private with AKM about this, and he is still very strongly opposed to it, so the change is not going through. My apologies.
 
I also do not blame Ryukama or DragonMasterxyz when they pretty much say they do not with to touch Dragon Ball threads anymore. But yes, AKM Sama is strongly against this unfortunately.
 
Several staff members, Matthew Schroeder is also universally against it as are several of his followers. And I recall there are also a few other Admins, but I do realize Matt also believes in more extreme extents which I'm strongly against. But AKM is generally the one seen as the best sense of judgement regarding Dragon Ball.
 
Well, AKM does have better sense of judgement regarding this topic than I do. Sorry.

I will close this thread.
 
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