MHA Review - One last post

[Padureanvladioan]

"Review" Post

 

[TheRustyOne]

Yeah I'm not dealing with this horror right now, I'll check back later. Just writing down to make you aware I've seen this.

Only thing I'll say in this post, don't use unofficial fan translation for your "points". Use the official translations.

 

[Onelixy]

I can address some of your points @Padureanvladioan if you want some feedback or discussion regarding some of the feats. It's probably not fun to put this much work into something and not understand why people don't agree. I would however agree with most of what Rusty said in your other post as well if you caught that.

Number 1 - The "New Order" Quirk Simply put, referring to AFO Tomura Shigaraki's attempt to use it to alter Earth's atmosphere.

The official translation is "air". More importantly, the effect from Star was a relatively small star-like vacuum around Shigaraki.

Even if we relied on the translation in your scans, Shigaraki never finished his sentence, nor did we see the results.
Why is this important? Because of the rules of New Order and its limitations.
Nothing suggests the quirk is capable of removing Earth's entire atmosphere (there are also several named layers of the atmosphere).
Moreover, it would make no sense in regard to AFO's plan with almost everyone dead, which would be the quick result of no atmosphere.

Furthermore, according to All For One's words, if the "New Order" Quirk was used in conjunction with the "One For All" Quirk, it would likely bring about the end of their entire world.

This could have been avoided if you had the official scans. What AFO is saying is that if he possessed OFA, no one in the world could stop him, not even New Order.

Number 2 - The "Electrification" Quirk Now, while Kaminari's Quirk voltage/power is much lower than that of a lightning bolt, it's very hard to believe that his speeds will be the equivalent of a reinvented "Tesla Coil Gun".
Moreover, this is a technological way for electricity to both travel and be projected through the air.
Quirks are said to be biological mutations, not connected to a supernatural source like magic or anything. Mha. Chapter 38. Image 1.jpg Namely, the way his Quirk works must be the equivalent of a natural source of electricity. The most common and well-known being lightning.

You are onto something here, which is that generally speaking, "more power = more speed" and it should be faster than the emission of a rather harmless Tesla coil. But past that point, you're not making much sense to me.

Electricity travels through the air the same whether it's natural or manmade, which is the process of ionizing a path for the electricity to travel. Therefore, something being "natural" or not doesn't really matter. It's more so that the fastest type of visual electricity tends to be cloud-to-ground lightning. But for something to be cloud-to-ground lightning, it has to be a discharge from a cloud to the ground or an object.
This is a unique process of buildup and releases not seen elsewhere, due to the electrical breakdown between the small positive charge region near the base of the cloud and the negative charge region in the middle of the cloud. Humid air makes for faster ionization, and a better conductor, and all these conditions combined make for the fastest type of electricity traveling through air.

There's more to address in your post, but I think that has been discussed to death. We all know Aoyama's laser has been referred to as light and bright, but it's clearly not moving around at light speed, as demonstrated in the manga and movies, and anime if you rely on that.
If you'd like feedback or critique on something specific or argue about points, I'm down.

 

[Padureanvladioan]

I can address some of your points @Padureanvladioan if you want some feedback or discussion regarding some of the feats. It's probably not fun to put this much work into something and not understand why people don't agree. I would however agree with most of what Rusty said in your other post as well if you caught that.


The official translation is "air". More importantly, the effect from Star was a relatively small star-like vacuum around Shigaraki.

Even if we relied on the translation in your scans, Shigaraki never finished his sentence, nor did we see the results.
Why is this important? Because of the rules of New Order and its limitations.
Nothing suggests the quirk is capable of removing Earth's entire atmosphere (there are also several named layers of the atmosphere).
Moreover, it would make no sense in regard to AFO's plan with almost everyone dead, which would be the quick result of no atmosphere.

This could have been avoided if you had the official scans. What AFO is saying is that if he possessed OFA, no one in the world could stop him, not even New Order.


You are onto something here, which is that generally speaking, "more power = more speed" and it should be faster than the emission of a rather harmless Tesla coil. But past that point, you're not making much sense to me.

Electricity travels through the air the same whether it's natural or manmade, which is the process of ionizing a path for the electricity to travel. Therefore, something being "natural" or not doesn't really matter. It's more so that the fastest type of visual electricity tends to be cloud-to-ground lightning. But for something to be cloud-to-ground lightning, it has to be a discharge from a cloud to the ground or an object.
This is a unique process of buildup and releases not seen elsewhere, due to the electrical breakdown between the small positive charge region near the base of the cloud and the negative charge region in the middle of the cloud. Humid air makes for faster ionization, and a better conductor, and all these conditions combined make for the fastest type of electricity traveling through air.

There's more to address in your post, but I think that has been discussed to death. We all know Aoyama's laser has been referred to as light and bright, but it's clearly not moving around at light speed, as demonstrated in the manga and movies, and anime if you rely on that.
If you'd like feedback or critique on something specific or argue about points, I'm down.

If this is truly an option. In this case, I don't see why I shouldn't express my opinion for a little while longer.

First stop, regarding Aoyama's laser. This "review" did not have this topic as the "main topic".

It was intended for all of the factors mentioned:

• Cathleen's "New Order" Quirk;
• Kaminari's "Electrification" Quirk;
• The energy emitting weapons in the movie;
• Nine's "Weather Manipulation" Quirk and "Air Wall" Quirk;

But since it is the most unpleasant, I think I will start with it.

Even after mentioning and showing that:

• It probably possesses the same effects that natural light can have on other Quirks;
• It was repeated indirectly called “light” / It was repeated indirectly compared to “real light”;
• It has been shown to affect and move the shadows around;
• It was shown to be maneuverable by someone whose Quirk allows her body to control and refract light;
• It has been shown to be projectable through transparent fields like lenses;
• It was stated to emit energy;

And of course many others.

But I see the main problem here is that it was never called "lightspeed". Or maybe it is also the fact that it was not directly called "light", or "to be composed of photons".

And even after introducing the "The Refractive Index "n" & The Refractive Index of Air" law, which will make Aoyama's laser only around Mach 264.4802 (90 km/s). It's still not enough to make up for the whole "aberration" part, according to Nine's lightning "feat".

Similarly, despite the fact that I brought arguments about how Nine's "Air Wall" Quirk. Which, although it is invisible, does not actually possess all the properties of transparent fields, like glass or lens, through which all light can pass.

I can see that it is still not enough. Even if, you already have the fact that Aoyama's laser is projectable through transparent fields.

I swear by all the gods that may be up there, and by all the demons and devils that may be down there. Until the creator of the manga series, either writes in one of the manga pages or states in an interview, that Aoyama's laser is indeed "lightspeed".

This idea will never be fully accepted.

While we're still on the subject, though. How about I also talk a little about Nine's lightning ?

Which, as everyone might notice, is much stronger than a natural one.

And if "Power/Voltage of Electricity = Speed of Electricity", then Nine's lightning should be faster than Mach 1282.798834 (436.5236 km/s).

As for the energy emitting weapons in the movie. Just because they haven't been named or confirmed as "lasers" yet is all it takes for them not to be lasers.

Even after mentioning that his Flect and Quirk technology also allow him to absorb and reflect sunlight. As well as the fact that those beams of energy meet at best two of the criteria when it comes to "lightspeed" lasers.

It's still not enough. Although the way they are portrayed in the movie is exactly how the laser beams appear in fiction.

As for the "New Order" Quirk. The purpose was to update its "Range".

Yes, the amount of damage it could have done to the atmosphere was not exactly clear. But the fact that it could have reached the atmosphere of the entire planet, I think was pretty clear.

In addition, the one who explained its limitations and capabilities. It was the exact same person that tried to use it on the whole planet's atmosphere.

So, the "New Order" Quirk having a range of "Thousands of kilometers", or perhaps "Planetary", is not so much of an aberration.

Wrong translated version or not.

But I notice that for some universes, if a lot of government research is not done on them. There is never enough evidence to make an idea real.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. But the MHA verse has great potential, which is constantly held back by all of this.

There is also the question of why the following images were not used in the calculation of these "feats".

• "One For All: Full Cowl - 100%" - "Heroes: Rising"
• "State-of-the-Art Hypersonic Intercontinental Cruise Punch" - "Star and Stripe Arc"

There are also a few other things. But they have already been mentioned in the "review", so I won't repeat them here.

 

[Onelixy]

First stop, regarding Aoyama's laser. This "review" did not have this topic as the "main topic".
But since it is the most unpleasant, I think I will start with it.

I swear by all the gods that may be up there, and by all the demons and devils that may be down there. Until the creator of the manga series, either writes in one of the manga pages or states in an interview, that Aoyama's laser is indeed "lightspeed". This idea will never be fully accepted.

It seems like you misunderstand what people are telling you about it. No one disagrees that it's called both light and laser on several occasions. We're saying it's not moving at light speed, as this seems evident in every single portrayal of Navel Laser.

You were also presented with examples where Navel Laser didn't behave like a real laser should in your prior thread by Rusty. I can think of more reasons as well, such as the laser providing enough recoil for Aoyama to use as a means of travel, which would not happen if it was photon-based.

While we're still on the subject, though. How about I also talk a little about Nine's lightning ?
Which, as everyone might notice, is much stronger than a natural one.
And if "Power/Voltage of Electricity = Speed of Electricity", then Nine's lightning should be faster than Mach 1282.798834 (436.5236 km/s).

As I said in my prior post, this is somewhat true. But there's just not enough data on the topic. It's true that generally speaking, more powerful or extreme variations of lighting should be faster. However, we can only rely on the current known range of lightning. This is presented on the VsBattles lightning page and substantiated by a few studies.

I would agree with you that Nine's lightning should be faster than the average lightning, but if every other verse relies on the average, it seems like a fair way to get trustworthy low-end calculations.

As for the energy emitting weapons in the movie. Just because they haven't been named or confirmed as "lasers" yet is all it takes for them not to be lasers.
Even after mentioning that his Flect and Quirk technology also allow him to absorb and reflect sunlight. As well as the fact that those beams of energy meet at best two of the criteria when it comes to "lightspeed" lasers.
It's still not enough. Although the way they are portrayed in the movie is exactly how the laser beams appear in fiction.

I have some thoughts on this, but it's not really up to me. I personally think we should be hyper-skeptical of any and every feat where something like a laser appears before we treat it as a legitimate light-speed beam. There should be something more than just following some of the typical ways lasers behave. I wouldn't fault someone for saying it's a laser, but I would fault someone for saying it's moving at the speed of light without compelling evidence.

As for the "New Order" Quirk. The purpose was to update its "Range".

Yes, the amount of damage it could have done to the atmosphere was not exactly clear. But the fact that it could have reached the atmosphere of the entire planet, I think was pretty clear.
In addition, the one who explained its limitations and capabilities. It was the exact same person that tried to use it on the whole planet's atmosphere.
So, the "New Order" Quirk having a range of "Thousands of kilometers", or perhaps "Planetary", is not so much of an aberration.

AFO would never try to remove the atmosphere on Earth, as it ruins his entire goal of world domination. Humans would die from the effects almost instantly, as there would be no oxygen, extreme temperatures, radiation, pressure changes, and so on.

You're relying on two big assumptions. First, that AFO would actually try to do this, and second, that it would work. None of which is likely, and neither took place.

There is also the question of why the following images were not used in the calculation of these "feats".

• "One For All: Full Cowl - 100%" - "Heroes: Rising"
• "State-of-the-Art Hypersonic Intercontinental Cruise Punch" - "Star and Stripe Arc"

There are also a few other things. But they have already been mentioned in the "review", so I won't repeat them here.

That might be a good question, but I'm not familiar with the specific calcs. There are several Cruise Punch calcs and so on. I'm probably not allowed to name the specific sites to you, but there are a ton of sites out there with the official scans. It's both easier to read and has the translation other people tend to rely on.

Great chat though! And I think you have a point regarding Nine's lightning, but there's a whole set of reasons why starting to change lightning rules for specific characters would get messy quickly. The average is safer

 

[Padureanvladioan]

It seems like you misunderstand what people are telling you about it. No one disagrees that it's called both light and laser on several occasions. We're saying it's not moving at light speed, as this seems evident in every single portrayal of Navel Laser.

You were also presented with examples where Navel Laser didn't behave like a real laser should in your prior thread by Rusty. I can think of more reasons as well, such as the laser providing enough recoil for Aoyama to use as a means of travel, which would not happen if it was photon-based.

WIKIPEDIA​

• Beam-powered propulsion
• Laser propulsion

WONDERFUL ENGINEERING​

• The creator of the article: Sara Aftab
• Article

YOUTUBE​

• The creator of the video: The Action Lab
• Video

I have come up with articles and arguments about how light itself. Despite the fact that it is composed of massless photons, it can also push objects on special occasions.

Aoyama's laser, despite the fact that it was never stated to be composed of "photons".

The fact that he can also use it as a means of propulsion, this still can't be considered an "anti-feat". As it has also been shown that light is also capable of pushing things around.

AFO would never try to remove the atmosphere on Earth, as it ruins his entire goal of world domination. Humans would die from the effects almost instantly, as there would be no oxygen, extreme temperatures, radiation, pressure changes, and so on.

You're relying on two big assumptions. First, that AFO would actually try to do this, and second, that it would work. None of which is likely, and neither took place

Yeah...

I did not rely on any of these assumptions. You are correct that "AFO" would never have tried to affect the planet's atmosphere in a way that would not benefit him.

However, this is not enough evidence to say that the effects of the "New Order" Quirk could not have actually reached the planet's entire atmosphere.

Based on how much power the "New Order" Quirk represented. As well as the fact that Cathleen resorted to its own self-destruction to ensure that it would never fall into AFO's hands.

The idea of having such capabilities, in my view, is not such an aberration.

As I said in my prior post, this is somewhat true. But there's just not enough data on the topic. It's true that generally speaking, more powerful or extreme variations of lighting should be faster. However, we can only rely on the current known range of lightning. This is presented on the VsBattles lightning page and substantiated by a few studies.

I would agree with you that Nine's lightning should be faster than the average lightning, but if every other verse relies on the average, it seems like a fair way to get trustworthy low-end calculations.

If Nine's lightning stays average, that's fine by me. But if Kaminari's Quirk allowed him to absorb most of one of it.

Shouldn't his "Electrification" Quirk also scale to Nine's lightning ?

I mean, his brains were wasted after absorbing the lightning. But this kind of effect also happens to him when he overuses his "Electrification" Quirk.

So his Quirk allows his body to absorb and sustain a voltage/power that can scale to lightning.

But at the same time, does his Quirk only allow him to emit something that is far below lightning itself ?

Sorry, but these don't connect well here.

But again, thank you for your feedback, and for taking the time to discuss these topics with me.

 

[Onelixy]

WIKIPEDIA​

• Beam-powered propulsion
• Laser propulsion

WONDERFUL ENGINEERING​

• The creator of the article: Sara Aftab
• Article

YOUTUBE​

• The creator of the video: The Action Lab
• Video

Did you read the articles? Or maybe you misunderstood the initial point about recoil.

Beam-powered propulsion is just an overview of the different ways energy beams can aid or create propulsion. None of the examples is based on a laser providing recoil, which is what Aoyama would have to rely on. More on the examples related below.

Laser propulsion is based on heating propellant, not the push of the laser itself. This is because "exhaust velocity is proportional to the square root of the temperature", and the laser aids the heating process, according to your Wikipedia link. This has nothing to do with the claims regarding Aoyama.

In Sara Aftab's article, they're saying photons (the radiation pressure) theoretically can push a surface they collide with. This is also mentioned in beam-powered propulsion with solar sails.
"The pressure of solar radiation is exceedingly small, a sufficiently large surface could produce a force that would be technologically useful. For example, it has been calculated that a “solar sail” could be designed large enough to propel a spacecraft."
But this also misses the point of recoil.

The action lab video is also the wrong aspect. We're not discussing if light or photons can affect something it hits. We're talking about the source itself. And to my knowledge, and what's been presented thus far, we don't use the recoil of light or lasers as a form of travel. We either use the heat they can generate or radiation pressure.

I have come up with articles and arguments about how light itself. Despite the fact that it is composed of massless photons, it can also push objects on special occasions.Aoyama's laser, despite the fact that it was never stated to be composed of "photons".
The fact that he can also use it as a means of propulsion, this still can't be considered an "anti-feat". As it has also been shown that light is also capable of pushing things around.

But we're not discussing what photons/light/lasers can affect when colliding with something. We're discussing the recoil from the source, which in this case is Ayoama. If I'm unclear here I can try to rephrase it if I'm not making sense.

You are correct that "AFO" would never have tried to affect the planet's atmosphere in a way that would not benefit him.
However, this is not enough evidence to say that the effects of the "New Order" Quirk could not have actually reached the planet's entire atmosphere.
Based on how much power the "New Order" Quirk represented. As well as the fact that Cathleen resorted to its own self-destruction to ensure that it would never fall into AFO's hands.

You can hold that position. But you'd have to acknowledge that:

• AFO would never do this.
• AFO didn't complete his sentence and could've been going for literally anything else. For example:
  The air is solidified around me.
• We don't know if the quirk is capable, but we know it has limits.
• We never got to see the quirk do anything remotely close to this scale.

And that's likely why no one is going to buy that argument. It's not substantiated or convincing.

Kaminari's Quirk allowed him to absorb most of one of it.
Shouldn't his "Electrification" Quirk also scale to Nine's lightning ?
I mean, his brains were wasted after absorbing the lightning. But this kind of effect also happens to him when he overuses his "Electrification" Quirk.
So his Quirk allows his body to absorb and sustain a voltage/power that can scale to lightning.
But at the same time, does his Quirk only allow him to emit something that is far below lightning itself ?

There are vastly different types of lightning.
As I tried to explain in my last post, the type of lightning Nine uses is cloud-to-ground lightning.
This lightning is unique, as there's a plethora of factors working together to make it incredibly fast. It's a combination of humidity and moisture, drafts creating more tension and electrical charges in close proximity, and an ionized path connecting with a specific target.

It's essentially why lightning alone doesn't mean much. But cloud-to-ground lightning does. It has a relatively well-studied and measured range of speed. Whereas something like cloud-to-cloud or cloud-to-air lightning does not. All we know is that they tend to be slower, and at times, surprisingly slow.

Therefore, even if Kaminari was capable of producing the same power as a typical cloud-to-ground strike, it should be far slower. Simultaneously Kaminari is not capable of outputting nearly this much either way.