mgk small rework

[Wesker018]

In the last downgrade attempt, there was a discussion about spirits not qualifying for Type 2 Information. While that thread got rejected and spirits are still info type 2. I’d like to propose that we update the current justification and add the Traces feat, which most people seemed fine with (including the OP of that thread, apparently). This should help avoid confusion.

the purple parts are the new justification added.

Anos
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So Anos justification will change from this:

Information Manipulation (Types 1 & 2. <Teles> engraves knowledge directly into the target's head. Can interact with and destroy Spirits)

to this:

Information Manipulation (Type 1: <Teles> engraves knowledge directly into the target's head. Type 2: Traces are data/information and everything in the world have traces, from past to present. Including physical things, combat experience, past events, memories, beings, world-destroying abilities, concepts, laws, etc. By recreating traces of things, Revalschned can recreate said things. It is also possible to modify the traces/data of the past, thereby changing the past itself. Anos can destroy traces even with low-level spells and he was also capable of injecting a massive amount of data into the Land of Traces. Anos can also interact and destroy spirits)

The link takes you to an imgur page, there I collected a lot of scans that clear up all the doubts presented in the previous thread, thus making the info type 2 thing way more clear than the previous justification.





Venuzdonoa
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From this:

Existence Erasure, Fate Manipulation, Law Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1. Venuzdonoa is the destroyer of anything in all of existence. Be it providence, fate, or a miracle, all bows down before it and disappears. No matter how sturdy, how eternal, or how infinite something is, Venuzdonoa can destroy it - even Reason itself. Those who are struck by Venuzdonoa have their bodies and sources annihilated Dimensions and spaces mean nothing to Venuzdonoa, and it reduces all logic to nothing. It's pointless to think about the "what", "how", or "why". The only reason/logic that Venuzdonoa allows is the destruction of Anos' enemies. Reason doesn't exist before Venuzdonoa hence it broke Azesith, a space completely isolated from the world that is impossible to interfere from the outside; avoiding Venuzdonoa is useless as avoiding it doesn't mean you avoided it; spamming a lot of decoy gates and escaping in one of them is also useless as the reason that "if he didn’t cut them all they couldn’t be cut" also doesn't exist as Venuzdonoa destroys that reason. It can reform the order of the world and rewrite concepts and laws, including Jerga, who is the concept of hatred for demons that will still exist even if this hate ceases to exist in the world)

Information Manipulation (Types 1 & 2; Manipulated the knowledge of The Great Tree Ennunien so that having incorrect test answers meant you could not legitimately get a perfect test score, and could therefore make Anos' subordinates legitimately get a perfect test score even if they had incorrect test answers. Venuzdonoa can destroy anything in existence, which would include Spirits)

To this:

Existence Erasure, Fate Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2) & Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1. Venuzdonoa is the destroyer of anything in all of existence. Be it providence, fate, or a miracle, all bows down before it and disappears. No matter how sturdy, how eternal, or how infinite something is, Venuzdonoa can destroy it - even Reason itself. Those who are struck by Venuzdonoa have their bodies and sources annihilated Dimensions and spaces mean nothing to Venuzdonoa, and it reduces all logic to nothing. It's pointless to think about the "what", "how", or "why". The only reason/logic that Venuzdonoa allows is the destruction of Anos' enemies. Reason doesn't exist before Venuzdonoa hence it broke Azesith, a space completely isolated from the world that is impossible to interfere from the outside; avoiding Venuzdonoa is useless as avoiding it doesn't mean you avoided it; spamming a lot of decoy gates and escaping in one of them is also useless as the reason that "if he didn’t cut them all they couldn’t be cut" also doesn't exist as Venuzdonoa destroys that reason. It can reform the order of the world and rewrite concepts and laws, including Jerga, who is the concept of hatred for demons that will still exist even if this hate ceases to exist in the world. Since it can affect order/gods, it would naturally include Revalschned and the Land of Traces, an infinite world made of traces. Traces are data/information and everything in the world have traces, from past to present. Including physical things, combat experience, past events, memories, beings, world-destroying abilities, concepts, laws, etc. By recreating traces of things, Revalschned can recreate said things. It is also possible to modify the traces/data of the past, thereby changing the past itself)

im also adding the ability for this magics eyes, since they can destroy gods which would include Revalschned.

Mauve Eyes and Chaotic Eyes
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From this:

• Mauve Eyes of Destruction: Greater Power Nullification, Invulnerability Negation, Statistics Reduction, Existence Erasure, Fate Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, Immortality Negation (Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 8) & Regeneration Negation (High-Godly) (These eyes are capable of permanently destroying Gods (who can revive after they're completely destroyed and regenerate from source destruction) and their Order as well as weaken and destroy Gods authorities as well as their divine weapons)

• Magic Eye of Chaotic Destruction: All the powers, abilities and resistances of Mauve Eyes of Destruction amped to a greater extent and <Venuzdonoa> plus; Chaos Manipulation, Greater Existence Erasure, Greater Fate Manipulation, Greater Power Nullification, Greater Law Manipulation & Greater Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; The power of this magic eye is the essence of destruction, but in chaotic form. It has the power to destroy even the indestructible, but even that is merely an after-effect spilling out from this magic. This magic eye is capable of destroying order and reason. If there's a contradiction between this magic eye and the reason that must be destroyed, Anos will win unilaterally. Compared to the reason which makes a single event certainly happen, it's far more advantageous for this magic eye which makes this event never happen. Additionally, the contradiction turns into the power of this magic eye. This magic eye can make events that will certainly happen and/or already happened never happen, by destroying reason and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning. In other words, as one possible use of this magic eye, Anos can destroy a power after the power already affected him, by destroying the reason of the power and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning, and subsequently nullifying the power's effect as if he was never even affected to begin with; e.g. Destroyed Eques' <Beld Rase Femblem>, which induces an inescapable predetermined fate that affects the target even if they go back to the past before the creation of the world and use their power, after the power already affected him, by destroying the reason of <Beld Rase Femblem> and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning, and subsequently nullifying the power's effect as if he was never even affected to begin with)

To this:

• Mauve Eyes of Destruction: Greater Power Nullification, Invulnerability Negation, Statistics Reduction, Existence Erasure, Fate Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Conceptual Manipulation, Immortality Negation (Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 8) & Regeneration Negation (High-Godly) (These eyes are capable of permanently destroying Gods (who can revive after they're completely destroyed and regenerate from source destruction) and their Order as well as weaken and destroy Gods authorities as well as their divine weapons. Since it can affect order/gods, it would naturally include Revalschned and the Land of Traces, an infinite world made of traces. Traces are data/information and everything in the world have traces, from past to present. Including physical things, combat experience, past events, memories, beings, world-destroying abilities, concepts, laws, etc. By recreating traces of things, Revalschned can recreate said things. It is also possible to modify the traces/data of the past, thereby changing the past itself)

• Magic Eye of Chaotic Destruction: All the powers, abilities and resistances of Mauve Eyes of Destruction amped to a greater extent and <Venuzdonoa> plus; Chaos Manipulation, Greater Existence Erasure, Greater Fate Manipulation, Greater Power Nullification, Greater Law Manipulation, Greater Information Manipulation (Type 2) & Greater Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; The power of this magic eye is the essence of destruction, but in chaotic form. It has the power to destroy even the indestructible, but even that is merely an after-effect spilling out from this magic. This magic eye is capable of destroying order and reason. If there's a contradiction between this magic eye and the reason that must be destroyed, Anos will win unilaterally. Compared to the reason which makes a single event certainly happen, it's far more advantageous for this magic eye which makes this event never happen. Additionally, the contradiction turns into the power of this magic eye. This magic eye can make events that will certainly happen and/or already happened never happen, by destroying reason and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning. In other words, as one possible use of this magic eye, Anos can destroy a power after the power already affected him, by destroying the reason of the power and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning, and subsequently nullifying the power's effect as if he was never even affected to begin with; e.g. Destroyed Eques' <Beld Rase Femblem>, which induces an inescapable predetermined fate that affects the target even if they go back to the past before the creation of the world and use their power, after the power already affected him, by destroying the reason of <Beld Rase Femblem> and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning, and subsequently nullifying the power's effect as if he was never even affected to begin with)

Agree: @Dog3352 @Saucy_Jackistan24 @Ddzn @ElPapucho80 @Shar122 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @ROZAN-U @Eseseso @Godsatoshi23 @Reiner04 @ThienDe01

Disagree:


edit: i just edited some grammar errors.

 

[Dog3352]

Technically, the current explanation is sufficient for Info2, but this explanation is more detailed and easier to understand; I agree with the change.

 

[Saucy_Jackistan24]

Disagreeing just because it’s you, weska.

Jokes aside, Agree, makes it easier for newbies to understand, thus we won’t have to deal with any downgrade threads anymore (hopefully.)

 

[Ddzn]

Agree with justifications

 

[ElPapucho80]

Agree

 

[Shar122]

Looks fine to me

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Sure.

 

[ROZAN-U]

Good wank
Agree

 

[Eseseso]

Looks good

 

[Godsatoshi23]

New justification looks good

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

Should have added Physics manip for the Eyes as well, while you were at it.

 

[ThienDe01]

I'm debating whether to agree or not because I have a question: Does "God of Traces" = "Land of traces"?
As in the link you sent there is a paragraph:

God of traces and the land are the traces of erverything, God of Traces = Traces, and Land of Traces = God of traces.

In the story, Anos destroyed God of Traces several times, but the Land of Traces itself never collapsed. Even the bolded quote makes me doubt that God of Traces is not "traces"

I was already within reach of his sword, but I stepped forward anyway, sinking my Vebzud-stained fingertips into him. His heart was crushed in my palm, and his source was destroyed along with it.

“Even if you destroy me now, the past will live forever,” he said.

Revalschned’s body regenerated in the blink of an eye, allowing him to swing the Sword of Three Races. I cloaked my left hand in Beno Ievun and attempted to catch the blade. “Traces make the blade.”

Even when Anos destroyed the source of the god of traces (the concept that maintained the existence of the god of traces), the Land of traces did not collapse. And as the bolded saying goes, the Land of Traces must be destroyed in order to destroy the God of traces; but when Anos used <Gilieriam Naviem> and destroyed the Land of Traces, the God of Traces still existed.

“Did you think you could reach me with a poor imitation of the Hero?” Using my hand, I chopped off the God of Traces’ right arm. Then I sunk my jet-black right arm into his abdomen. “Degzegd.”

A black snake mark appeared on Revalschned’s body, rampaging fiercely as it tried to consume him. It was a curse that caused one’s magic to fly out of control, driving the subject to death. Just as expected, the god’s magic ran wild, rapidly decaying his body. I grabbed the magic circle with my right arm and forcefully yanked it out of his body along with his source. Once his source was out of his body, I crushed it in my hand. The God of Traces’ body immediately rotted away, turning into air.

Of course, it was only a temporary solution. He wouldn’t die just from that.

“I’ve witnessed the whole scheme now. In order to destroy you, I have to destroy the land of traces first,” I said.

Hope everyone answers

 

[Thermor]

I'm debating whether to agree or not because I have a question: Does "God of Traces" = "Land of traces"?
As in the link you sent there is a paragraph:

In the story, Anos destroyed God of Traces several times, but the Land of Traces itself never collapsed. Even the bolded quote makes me doubt that God of Traces is not "traces"

Even when Anos destroyed the source of the god of traces (the concept that maintained the existence of the god of traces), the Land of traces did not collapse. And as the bolded saying goes, the Land of Traces must be destroyed in order to destroy the God of traces; but when Anos used <Gilieriam Naviem> and destroyed the Land of Traces, the God of Traces still existed.

Hope everyone answers

It might just be a feat for Anos as capable of violating logic. Normally both traces are tied to each other as it's the system of the verse but it doesn't apply to Anos.

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

This really boils down to time shenanigans. Since God of Traces is essentially the God of the past, destroying him "now", at the present doesn't do much. Since the past still exists, so does the LoT, as it is an entire realm based on the Order of Past which keeps records of the past, therefore based on immo type 8, via the LoT, he can always regenerate back. This can also be attributed to the fact that during Selection Judgement, the Order is always preserved, even if you destroy the God in question, their power/Order is preserved, so LoT didn't Vanish.

Anyways, the gods always have this reliant immortality thing going on in their realms, just like how Anahem (god of death) operates in his realm. Despite getting source destroyed, the realm (the embodiment of the specific Order in question) always regenerates the source back.

That is why God of Traces says that in order to be able to destroy him, one first need to remove the LoT from the scene and then kill him, so that the question of immo type 8 goes Outta the window.

But this can be discussed in the MGnf discussion thread, regarding agreeing or not agreeing to justification is different matter. IM2 comes from even destroying the LoT, so it's pretty clear cut to agree on.

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

It might just be a feat for Anos as capable of violating logic. Normally both traces are tied to each other as it's the system of the verse but it doesn't apply to Anos.

Never seen my guy violate logic with just <Vebdoz> and GN , he's a misfit so he has options outside the bounds of Order and Reason, but not without Venuz or Chaos eyes.

 

[Reiner04]

This is fine

 

[ThienDe01]

I understand it somewhat, but I agree with this thread

 

[Greatsage13th]

Hmm

 

[Wesker018]

I'm debating whether to agree or not because I have a question: Does "God of Traces" = "Land of traces"?
As in the link you sent there is a paragraph:

In the story, Anos destroyed God of Traces several times, but the Land of Traces itself never collapsed. Even the bolded quote makes me doubt that God of Traces is not "traces"

Even when Anos destroyed the source of the god of traces (the concept that maintained the existence of the god of traces), the Land of traces did not collapse. And as the bolded saying goes, the Land of Traces must be destroyed in order to destroy the God of traces; but when Anos used <Gilieriam Naviem> and destroyed the Land of Traces, the God of Traces still existed.

Hope everyone answers

This really boils down to time shenanigans. Since God of Traces is essentially the God of the past, destroying him "now", at the present doesn't do much. Since the past still exists, so does the LoT, as it is an entire realm based on the Order of Past which keeps records of the past, therefore based on immo type 8, via the LoT, he can always regenerate back. This can also be attributed to the fact that during Selection Judgement, the Order is always preserved, even if you destroy the God in question, their power/Order is preserved, so LoT didn't Vanish.

Anyways, the gods always have this reliant immortality thing going on in their realms, just like how Anahem (god of death) operates in his realm. Despite getting source destroyed, the realm (the embodiment of the specific Order in question) always regenerates the source back.

That is why God of Traces says that in order to be able to destroy him, one first need to remove the LoT from the scene and then kill him, so that the question of immo type 8 goes Outta the window.

But this can be discussed in the MGnf discussion thread, regarding agreeing or not agreeing to justification is different matter. IM2 comes from even destroying the LoT, so it's pretty clear cut to agree on.

^this
also the part of god of traces = land of traces, is because the land is just a manifestation of order and order = gods. However i could change it to order of traces > land of traces or even Gods != Order and wouldnt change anything, the main part you have to focus is on the land being and infinite world made of traces/data, which anos was able to inject data/traces into it. That is the important part of the scans

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

^this
also the part of god of traces = land of traces, is because the land is just a manifestation of order and order = gods. However i could change it to order of traces > land of traces or even Gods != Order and wouldnt change anything, the main part you have to focus is on the land being and infinite world made of traces/data, which anos was able to inject data/traces into it. That is the important part of the scans

You finna add physics manip for eyes or nah ?

 

[Wesker018]

Are you finna add physics manip for eyes of nah !

I’ll add it in the next CRT, where I’ll also give them Soul Manip and the other stuff we talked about in DMs

 

[ThienDe01]

you should add the tag "maou gakuin no futekigousha" to this post

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

you should add the tag "maou gakuin no futekigousha" to this post

Naaah, "MGK" is very infamous itself.
Just that name alone instills fear even among the admins

 

[Jalias93000]

I agree with the new justifications. In essence, we could add a type 2 information manipulation for all abilities that can directly destroy sources like "Vebduz," as this includes the source of spirits but also of gods (World of Trace).

 

[Dereck03]

 

[Wesker018]

 

[Wesker018]

I just applied the changes, this can be closed.