(GRACE) Mewtwo vs White Queen

[StrymULTRA]

As title says

Mega Mewtwo (who starts with the Y variant) vs Unrestrained White Queen

Both 3-C, Speed =

Super Buu + Killer Queen: 8 (Garchomp777, Stillwinston, King_Clab, BlackDarkness679, Oleggator, Oleggator, ElixirBlue, Soupywolf5)

White Queen Kurumi, but even more White: 2 (DontTalkDT, Everything12)

Sans:

 

[Garchomp777]

What tier is white queen's resistance to mind manipulation

 

[StrymULTRA]

What tier is white queen's resistance to mind manipulation

Seems baseline

 

[Garchomp777]

Seems baseline

Then Mewtwo opens his eyes and wins

 

[StrymULTRA]

Then Mewtwo opens his eyes and wins

Ik, about the potency of the Mind Hax yeah, counted until someone knowedgable counters I guess.

 

[Stillwinston]

Mewtwo FRA

 

[King_Clab]

Mewtwo FRA

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Im a simple man, i see something about Kurumi, i support it

Well Mewtwo already turns her in a candy bomb for the win looks like

 

[Oleggator]

Mewtwo FRA

 

[ElixirBlue]

Mew’s faker FRA

 

[Garchomp777]

Why you keep making stomps

 

[Soupywolf5]

Mew2 FRA

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Wait what wincon does WQ have here?

 

[Garchomp777]

Wait what wincon does WQ have here?

Mewtwo realising WQ is fodder and not wanting to waste time

 

[DontTalkDT]

WQ wins via passive Charisma alone tbh.

Does Mewtwo have the showing for mind control being its first in-character move?
WQ's first in-character move of attacking with a trillion matter, energy, space, time, information and soul destroying weapons would be something it doesn't survive.
Furthermore, the sword of truth would continue to attempt to kill Mewtwo even if the WQ is mind controlled, even against the WQ's own will. Mewtwo lacks the resistance to survive that.

 

[StrymULTRA]

WQ wins via passive Charisma alone tbh.

Is already added tho, but I'll still answer.

Mewtwo already resist psychic abilities due of how Psychic type works, and thus, it would resist a mind hax comparable to its.

Does Mewtwo have the showing for mind control being its first in-character move?

All psychic types do that as 1st move, and Mewtwo did that with a Nurse Joy, so yeah.

WQ's first in-character move of attacking with a trillion matter, energy, space, time, information and soul destroying weapons would be something it doesn't survive.
Furthermore, the sword of truth would continue to attempt to kill Mewtwo even if the WQ is mind controlled, even against the WQ's own will. Mewtwo lacks the resistance to survive that.

Mewtwo can power null and copy powers as well, meaning that it can counter these tbf. It can also BFR all of these, even her soul with portals.

EDIT: There are also the barriers as well.

 

[Delta333]

Mewtwo already resist psychic abilities due of how Psychic type works, and thus, it would resist a mind hax comparable to its.

her charisma is not mind hax,it's social influencing

 

[StrymULTRA]

her charisma is not mind hax,it's social influencing

And how's that working on a thing that hates humans?

 

[Delta333]

And how's that working on a thing that hates humans?

I don't know anything about WQ but according to her profile she's not human

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't know anything about WQ but according to her profile she's not human

I mean that she still is like a human tho, as it pretty much wants to protect Pokémon from humans. Without further knowedge, it would just assume she's an human.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Is already added tho, but I'll still answer.

You should have really asked a supporter to contribute, though, especially when doing it for the Top 5 strongest thread.

Mewtwo already resist psychic abilities due of how Psychic type works, and thus, it would resist a mind hax comparable to its.

WQ's charisma isn't mind hax. It isn't even supernatural. It is just normal charisma taken to ridiculous degrees. Mind hax resistance is irrelevant against it, because it isn't mind hax.

All psychic types do that as 1st move, and Mewtwo did that with a Nurse Joy, so yeah.

Mewtwo did it to one human, and for the explicit reason that it wished to use her as a puppet, and I doubt all psychic types mind control as first move by all I have seen as a casual pokemon fan. Show me two occasions of Mewtwo actually fighting someone and starting with mind control on them.

Mewtwo can power null and copy powers as well, meaning that it can counter these tbf. It can also BFR all of these, even her soul with portals.

Pretty sure disable has never shown to work on anything like the sword of truth and mimic would hardly be able to copy a weapon like it. Even if it could, the sword of truth can't be used by simply anyone and it's defined function is to make the WQ right. So if Mewto did that the thing it copied would turn against it.
BFR is useless, because all of these weapons rip apart spacetime itself and can if necessary do so to reach their target. Heck, considering they do that I doubt the portals would even work... not that I'm sure how they would even fly into the portals.

Also, if Mewtwo bothers to defend against the WQ's attack with a move the WQ can pull out her worse stuff. Like the killing curse, which Mewtwo has no way to deal with.

EDIT: There are also the barriers as well.

I doubt it's barriers can protect against weapons erasing all the stuff I mentioned above.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I mean that she still is like a human tho, as it pretty much wants to protect Pokémon from humans. Without further knowedge, it would just assume she's an human.

Her charisma is strong enough to completely make that irrelevant. It is so powerful that it is troublesome for a genius boy that was raised by another genius in a very specific way to indoctrinate him to never abandon the goal he was given and that hates her immensely due to the WQ having personally killed his family... TWICE. And he believes the WQ to be the indirect cause for half of the entire worlds problems at that.

I don't think many people would mistake her for a human either. She has too much of a divine aura.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Oh yeah, I should also mention that a serious WQ has passive powernull.

 

[StrymULTRA]

You should have really asked a supporter to contribute, though, especially when doing it for the Top 5 strongest thread.

MB, the verse got upgraded to 3-C, so I wanted to give a shot.

Mewtwo did it to one human, and for the explicit reason that it wished to use her as a puppet, and I doubt all psychic types mind control as first move by all I have seen as a casual pokemon fan. Show me two occasions of Mewtwo actually fighting someone and starting with mind control on them.

1) Why two?
2) Literally all the Mewtwo threads start with that, so is a question in Q&A would be necessary.

Pretty sure disable has never shown to work on anything like the sword of truth

Like WQ doesen't have resistance to Power Null tho.

and mimic would hardly be able to copy a weapon like it. Even if it could, the sword of truth can't be used by simply anyone and it's defined function is to make the WQ right.

Thing is that Mewtwo can use stuff it's not supposed to thanks to it.

So if Mewto did that the thing it copied would turn against it.

Elaborate.

Heck, considering they do that I doubt the portals would even work... not that I'm sure how they would even fly into the portals.

Creating them in front of the attacks I guess.

Oh yeah, I should also mention that a serious WQ has passive powernull.

Elaborate this too.

 

[DontTalkDT]

No counter argument against the charisma?

1) Why two?
2) Literally all the Mewtwo threads start with that, so is a question in Q&A would be necessary.

Considering that the profile doesn't have a Standard Tactics version none of that is official. If nobody can argue for that claim it is void until someone does.

I mean, from what I have seen it didn't even attempt it against Mew or anyone else attacking it in the first movie. Neither did it use it in Mewtwo Returns, I believe. Judging by this () neither did it default to it in Pokémon 16. From what I read on wikis there also appear to be a decent amount of battles in the manga where it doesn't use it.

Like WQ doesen't have resistance to Power Null tho.

Powernull needs to demonstrate working on the kinds of powers it nullifies. You can't just claim every powernull can nullify every kind of attack. Also, disable can only works after the attack was executed, meaning that Mewtwo can't use it to stop the first attack anyways. Not to mention that disable negates only one attack, while the WQ launches trillions of differening weapons at Mewtwo. I doubt it could logistically manage to use disable on a trillion of them.

Thing is that Mewtwo can use stuff it's not supposed to thanks to it.

Again, power copying needs feats of copying the kind of power you claim it can. Has mimicry ever shown to copy anything with the wide range of destructive effects that the WQ's attacks have? In the first place, I'm not sure whether it can copy an object at all. And it needs a second ability, the "Right to wield the Sword of Truth"-skill, in order to use it in any manner. Since Mewtwo only copies one move at a time it's logistically not possible.

Elaborate.

The Sword of Truth's defined function is to create a world in which the WQ is right, even if it is against her will. Even if Mewtwo could somehow copy the Sword of Truth and manage to wield it, the copy would have the exact same function: To create a world in which the WQ is right, even against its wielders will.

Creating them in front of the attacks I guess.

I doubt Mewtwo could create the trillion portals necessary for that. And the weapons each fight autonomously, meaning they can change the direction to evade the portals. Assuming portals work and spacetime erasing weapons. Personally, I find it much more plausible that the portals would just get erased together with the space they are in.

Elaborate this too.

If the WQ is serious all the supernatural powers of anyone around her will be disrupted. That can range from outright negation to severe weakening. Even a barrier strong enough to temporarily stop the WQ completely lost 90% of its power. And that was for the restrained WQ.

 

[Arceus0x]

why does nobody ever call cal, kukui or at the very least me on mewtwo threads?

Mewtwo literally has been stated to have the most savage heart of all pokemon, only worrying about winning most of the time. Mewtwo, besides not feeling any emotion and with any memory of the only person he cared for in any way as a child completely erased, mewtwo is also an utter genius, re-building a heavily improved fully mechanized labaratory with perfect cloning machines which create superior pokemon within weeks at worst, despite the fact that all he had to work with were the remains of the lab he himself nuked with dozens of innocent scientists who were not able to make a cloning machine for ages, most of them killing the clones created. To change his mind not to destroy the entirety of humanity, he killed a child in a crossfire, saw the child get revived by pokemon uniting and then he thought that what he was doing is dumb and he should really start doing something else.
In addition to that he has already met gods including Arceus who is literally the god of all pokemon and didn't really worry about it.
And in another addition he resists back planetary mind control and is immune to moves like attract which can literally force a 4000 iq genius pokemon to fall head over heels for a worm.
I think all of this should be enough.

Now for the trillions of weapons and how he evades them...teleportation, but for himself.
Mewtwo already casually teleported an entire colossal lake in his base form, though i assume that wouldn't be enough to teleport the weapons. But what stops him from teleporting by himself? He could also use precognition after his starting move which would literally just make him predict everything in which case he just teleports around or just straight up comes back and mind haxes her and that is only if he doesn't just mind hax from the start which he most likely will.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Mewtwo literally has been stated to have the most savage heart of all pokemon, only worrying about winning most of the time. Mewtwo, besides not feeling any emotion and with any memory of the only person he cared for in any way as a child completely erased, mewtwo is also an utter genius, re-building a heavily improved fully mechanized labaratory with perfect cloning machines which create superior pokemon within weeks at worst, despite the fact that all he had to work with were the remains of the lab he himself nuked with dozens of innocent scientists who were not able to make a cloning machine for ages, most of them killing the clones created. To change his mind not to destroy the entirety of humanity, he killed a child in a crossfire, saw the child get revived by pokemon uniting and then he thought that what he was doing is dumb and he should really start doing something else.

The Charisma would even be dangerous for Kyousuke if he weren't constantly on guard. He's equally smart, at least as determined by nature (savage heart isn't really a feat of willpower) and has vastly higher emotional stakes in the battle than Mewtwo, who really has nothing against a non-human like the Queen.
And honestly, having its opinion changed by Ash isn't the best feat of determination.

In addition to that he has already met gods including Arceus who is literally the god of all pokemon and didn't really worry about it.

Summoners control gods every day and still easily fall for the charisma.

And in another addition he resists back planetary mind control and is immune to moves like attract which can literally force a 4000 iq genius pokemon to fall head over heels for a worm.

Charisma isn't a mind control effect like all of these techniques, so irrelevant.

Now for the trillions of weapons and how he evades them...teleportation, but for himself.
Mewtwo already casually teleported an entire colossal lake in his base form, though i assume that wouldn't be enough to teleport the weapons. But what stops him from teleporting by himself? He could also use precognition after his starting move which would literally just make him predict everything in which case he just teleports around or just straight up comes back and mind haxes her and that is only if he doesn't just mind hax from the start which he most likely will.

The WQ also has precognition, to counter Mewtwo's. Mewtwo's teleportation is subject to the WQ's power null and if it bothers teleporting to dodge all those attacks, the WQ will just immediately whip out a move that hits regardless of teleportation. Her death curse for example.

 

[Garchomp777]

The Charisma would even be dangerous for Kyousuke if he weren't constantly on guard. He's equally smart, at least as determined by nature (savage heart isn't really a feat of willpower) and has vastly higher emotional stakes in the battle than Mewtwo, who really has nothing against a non-human like the Queen.
And honestly, having its opinion changed by Ash isn't the best feat of determination.


Summoners control gods every day and still easily fall for the charisma.


Charisma isn't a mind control effect like all of these techniques, so irrelevant.


The WQ also has precognition, to counter Mewtwo's. Mewtwo's teleportation is subject to the WQ's power null and if it bothers teleporting to dodge all those attacks, the WQ will just immediately whip out a move that hits regardless of teleportation. Her death curse for example.

Mewtwo's mindhax works on higher dimensional beings

 

[DontTalkDT]

Mewtwo's mindhax works on higher dimensional beings

Even assuming that's true how is that in the slightest way relevant to the argument I made?


Btw. people have argued that Mewtwo would take a bunch of different actions now. What is actually the in-character response for it and why? Even if it has a winning move, it isn't in the position to go through half a dozen techniques to find it.

 

[Arceus0x]

You keep saying power null but that is if she is serious. If she is not then mewtwo could yoink her before that.

I only brought up ash because the dude murdered him and had an entire revival before him just to change one opinion which was already just based on rage and confusion. He changed it out of his own volition, he didn't get it changed by someone.
Anyways, gods. Arceus is a god far superior to any gods afromentioned so don't compare them.

I will still not agree with her charm being stronger than what he can handle. Mewtwo never even saw humans as charming in any way, and as you said before, the afromentioned kyousuke was able to resist it, there is no reason why mewtwo, who clearly has a superior mind, can't resist it. He is like kyousuke but superior, not to mention mewtwo is also usually on guard as, as i mentioned before, he is all for the fights.



And finally...please Garchomp. Just shut up. This is not on the profiles, has not been revised that way and in no way will it help mewtwo as she has baseline resistence and it wouldn't matter wether it is city level mind control or hyperverse level of mind control

 

[StrymULTRA]

You keep saying power null but that is if she is serious. If she is not then mewtwo could yoink her before that.

This is pretty much for the Top 5 characters, and SBA makes anyone willing to kill the opponent in a serious way.

 

[Garchomp777]

hol up is that social influencing passive

 

[Arceus0x]

This is pretty much for the Top 5 characters, and SBA makes anyone willing to kill the opponent in a serious way.

in this case i assume severe weakening. But even if we were to reduce Mewtwo's mindhax by 99% they would still be enough to beat her.
The main question is wether mewtwo can resist the charm or not in which case i am arguing that he will.

 

[Everything12]

hol up is that social influencing passive

Yes.

Also, WQ FRA.

 

[Zencha9]

WQ FRA if no one counters Charisma

 

[Oleggator]

Changing vote to WQ then.

 

[Delta333]

WQ stomps