Merging universes isn't always 2-C

[Antvasima]

So should we close this thread?

 

[Genericstickman]

Didn't the heroes need to heavily weaken US in order to even fight him? Since after the reality Stone was shattered he was significantly weakened

 

[Eficiente]

Merging universes is always assumed to be 2-C unless it is stated that specifically only matter and/or energy was merged (which is a very rare case).

The last part here is the point that I wanna to get into. I dropped opposing 2-C via merging timespace continuums a while ago, I said it and put it in the OP.

At least for my experience I think that only merging the matter of the universe is the most common case. For example wouldn't the past in those universes being unaffected show that all of time isn't being affected?

 

[Antvasima]

The problem is that time and space are knit together for true mergers of universes. Merging continuums logically has to be of a 2-C scale. However, for story reasons, the greater implications of this are recurrently not taken into account.

 

[Eficiente]

I mean, when someone destroys the universe and there is evidence of the feat not being Low 2-C, the feat is just 3-A. Why can't the same apply here?

Sometimes the characters doing this only aim to put all the people in the universes in one place to rule them there, not to fuse 2 universal space-time continuums. We are going to give everyone type 1 Acausality if this is rejected?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Agreed with Antvasima, Infinite Zamasu from DBS is another example of this is why we don't see Zamasu's face throughout the entirety of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z even though it clearly states he's merging with space-time and his face appears in more than one timeline. He may not be fully merged with other timelines, but he's clearly merged with the specific timeline. Also, it's really weird for a feat like that to be 3-A combined with 2-C range if they're clearly crossing the space-time barriers to merge two or more universes.

 

[Eficiente]

Infinite Zamasu has context supporting what he did, other characters don't, simply because they didn't aim to do the same. Crossing the space-time barriers can be done easily via teleportation or portals, should a character use the latter the feat becomes even more clearly not 2-C.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Except literally merging two or more universes together also literally involves merging the two space-time barriers together. Where not simply talking about teleporting from one universe to another, but rather fusing two universes into one. That's still a 2-C feat, especially if no portal was involved.

 

[Antvasima]

We should basically mainly use 3-A for explosions that shatter all of the physical matter in the universe and the like. That said, Ultima is revising our tiering system, so perhaps the distinction between 3-A and Low 2-C will become better defined or erased in the future.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, explosions and shock waves are that outright only destroy all physical matter are merely 3-A, but stuff like "Destroying all existence" or "All Reality" or "Giving birth to the universe from the Chaos of Creation" are Low 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

That is correct, yes.

 

[Eficiente]

Maybe I should see what we do with that and bring this topic later.

In any case, I just want to clarify that all I was saying is that the process being 2-C is one interpretation, meaning that there that ways in which it's not 2-C, and that we shouldn't ignore evidence showing the process being done in a way that doesn't qualify as 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose, but the merging should be specified as only involving the physical matter in that case.

 

[Sera_EX]

Merging is a really weird case. Sometimes it's 3-A, other times it's Low 2-C, and at max it's 2-C. Depends on "what" was merged and "how" it was merged.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I feel like Dark Khan and ultron sigma should be downgraded, but not dormammu

 

[Genericstickman]

Ultron-Sigma needs a second weaker key that's for sure

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't really know any examples of the top of my head where only the physical matter of two universes are merged; unless it was something like merging Heaven, Hell, and Observable Universe. DMC and Bayonetta I here are examples of these where it would be 3-A, but if the universes are literally "Alternate Realities" than merging them is 2-C for sure.

 

[Antvasima]

So is there anything left to do here?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not that I know of, unless Eficiente has more to say.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. We can probably close this then.