Mechikabura vs Arceus

[Akreious]

I only asked because the only number I have seen is the 30 million one.
And no ammount of "countless" will net you anywhere close to 10^500 (I mean as an actual calculation).

Still wouldn't net you anywhere near dragon ball Xenoverse/Heroes size where it's "Every possibility is its own Timeline"

 

[Everything12]

No idea what Pokémon's is as it's Ad Infinitum so it could be any number inbetween 300 Million and infinity, but anyway does anyone have any way that Mechikabura can interact with Arceus' Abstract Existence (and no destroying the Pokéverse won't work, Arceus was Abstract before the verse existed, it isn't a Concept Type 3 Abstract Existence) or does anyone have anyway Arceus can deal with the fact that it doesn't have the range to deal with Mechikabura's Omnipresence? Otherwise I see no way this isn't a Incon.

 

[JooCipher]

isn't Mechikabura's Omnipresence getting contested atm?

 

[Everything12]

Well yes, but it's currently unknown if it's going to be removed or not, so I'm going to act as if it isn't until a decision has been made, as if it is removed then I presume this would be a stomp anyway based on my current opinion of Incon.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Still wouldn't net you anywhere near dragon ball Xenoverse/Heroes size where it's "Every possibility is its own Timeline"

Well that's an ad Infinitum, which The Pokemon Multiverse already has because of the Reflection Cave

 

[Ionliosite]

The Pokémon multiverse is one universe per every possibility. DBH multiverse, one the other hand, is between 12 and 18 universes per every possibility. So while the Pokémon multiverse is the closest on the wiki to getting to Heroes level, they still fall short.

 

[Akreious]

Still wouldn't net you anywhere near dragon ball Xenoverse/Heroes size where it's "Every possibility is its own Timeline"

Well that's an ad Infinitum, which The Pokemon Multiverse already has because of the Reflection Cave

I don't think you grasp how ludicrous of a difference is between "literally every possibility" and any normal finite number...

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The're the same thing, one makes a Universe for every possibility, the other makes a Universe for every reflection cave mirror, and the Universe that was created by that mirror has more mirrors in it, and those Mirrors have More Universes with more mirrors in them that have more Universes that have mirrors and it repeats forever.....

 

[Ionliosite]

Dragon Ball Heroes doesn't make one universe for every possibility, it makes between 12 and 18 depending if the possibility branches from Zen O destroying 6 universes or not. Also, the Reflection Cave's mirrors are already counted as part of the "every possibility".

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just gonna comment one thing.

DBH's is still bigger (as of now) but the whole "reflection cave mirrors are a part of every possibility" is likely wrong. We still never got a conclusion as to how big Pokemon's Multiverse would become because of it actually.

 

[StrymULTRA]

How is DBH Multiverse bigger?

As I've understood the Pokémon verse is at least 319 milion times bigger than the baseline Countless 2-B (303 + 16) and the DBH one is from 12 to 18 times bigger than the baseline, so the Pokémon verse should be from 17,722,222.2 to 26,583,333.3 times bigger than the DBH one

 

[Everything12]

Well, for some reason, the wiki counts the Ultra Worlds and the Games Sold into the Countless Worlds of the Mirror Cave.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, for some reason, the wiki counts the Ultra Worlds and the Games Sold into the Countless Worlds of the Mirror Cave.

So now every game is inside the mirror cave?

Isn't the Pokémon verse still larger due to be 16.44 milion times bigger than the baseline Ad Infinitum?


I don't think that being just 12-18 times bigger than the baseline countless can match with a verse that relies on milions as multipler

 

[Everything12]

Yeah, I don't even know where that number is from, but it's probably from the Games Sold, Gen VI I think, which as mention is counted as part of the Countless Mirror World.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, I don't even know where that number is from, but it's probably from the Games Sold, Gen VI I think, which as mention is counted as part of the Countless Mirror World.

From here

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wait, so as everything is in the mirror cave the verse is just baseline Ad Infinitum? Yikes, someone should change the explanation of Pokémon multiverse cosmology then

 

[StrymULTRA]

But as I've heard, the Pokémon multiverse might be upgraded to 2-A

 

[Everything12]

Yeah, the wiki has taken the approach that though their is no evidence that this stuff is part of the Mirror Cave World's theirs no evidence that it isn't, so they decided to go with it is which leaves the Verse as Countless x 2.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, the wiki has taken the approach that though their is no evidence that this stuff is part of the Mirror Cave World's theirs no evidence that it isn't, so they decided to go with it is which leaves the Verse as Countless x 2.

But isn't Ad Infinitum bigger than Countless?

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

How is DBH Multiverse bigger?
As I've understood the Pokémon verse is at least 319 milion times bigger than the baseline Countless 2-B (303 + 16) and the DBH one is from 12 to 18 times bigger than the baseline, so the Pokémon verse should be from 17,722,222.2 to 26,583,333.3 times bigger than the DBH one

They are 12-18 Universes with each having countless if not infinite timelines

 

[StrymULTRA]

How is DBH Multiverse bigger?
As I've understood the Pokémon verse is at least 319 milion times bigger than the baseline Countless 2-B (303 + 16) and the DBH one is from 12 to 18 times bigger than the baseline, so the Pokémon verse should be from 17,722,222.2 to 26,583,333.3 times bigger than the DBH one

They are 12-18 Universes with each having countless if not infinite timelines

All the 2-A proposal got rejected tbh

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also you just said what I said before, the DBH multiverse is from 12 to 18 times bigger than the baseline countless

 

[Everything12]

But isn't Ad Infinitum bigger than Countless?

Beats me, both Ad Infinitum and every possible possibility are so huge that I don't even bother to try and figure them out, theirs a reason their both just labeled Countless.

 

[StrymULTRA]

But isn't Ad Infinitum bigger than Countless?

Beats me, both Ad Infinitum and every possible possibility are so huge that I don't even bother to try and figure them out, theirs a reason their both just labeled Countless.

Fine, seems legit then x2 countless


Anyway, gonna say inconclusive, due to Mechi not being able to affect AE 1 (seriously, he hasn't Type 3 concept destruction) and Arceus not being able to affect Mechi due to the massive range gap that Arceus needs to affect Mechikabura


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[Everything12]

Pretty sure the Omnipresence is going away, but then again something might change while waiting for Kep, or they might deliver a opinion that changes everyone else's opinion on Omnipresence.

Also Arceus it getting 5-D revision when the person making it isn't busy, from the Original Spirit existing a Primordial Void before the 4th dimension

 

[Dragopentling]

Inb4 Gen 4 remakes confirm CT and Arceus being 5D in some obtainable "true" form.

Just saying. Cause I absolutely enjoy Sinnoh lore.

 

[Ionliosite]

"Ad infinitum" is a number in constant expansion towards infinity, but never reaches infinity because you can't reach infinity by stacking finite numbers. For record, both the Pokémon and DBH multiverse would fit into "Ad infinitum", since DBH has 12 to 18 universes every time a possibility on any timeline opens, which means the number is also constantly increasing towards infinity.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Fine, still doesen't change my vote thought

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

So who's bigger?

 

[Theglassman12]

Um yes, you could affect him normally with NPI/Conceptual Manip or by affecting/destroying all of what the abstraction represents

Something akin to Gogeta busting the universe to affect Giygas in a former thread that happened some months ago

The Gogeta thing was debunked on that thread since Giygas can live on without a universe given its whole thing was to delete everything.

 

[Everything12]

Currently Mechikabura's Omnipresence is bigger, but that is pretty much certainly getting removed soon, so the Original Spirit would be bigger despite the smaller verse.

Of course Mechikabura, while his AP is much bigger, can't actually interact with the Original Spirit because of it's Abstract Existence Type 1, and the Original Spirit has Hax that can deal with Mechikabura if it didn't lack the range to deal with his Omnipresence.

 

[Lord_JJJ]

Mechikabura lose his Omnipresence now

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Arceus stomps then

 

[StrymULTRA]

Definitely, now Mechikabura hasn't ways to deal with AE 1 and his shitton of haxes

 

[JooCipher]

Arceus stomps

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

so, should this be closed then

 

[GyroNutz]

Alright, I'll close this.